Mathew Naismith

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A contradiction within itself-New Age Spirituality

I’m back from a two week holiday in the sticks & I’m causing trouble already!!

Is New age spirituality a contradiction within itself when it judges judgment & the ego as being bad, judgment is bad because it’s of being judgmental & the ego is judged as being bad because it’s of desires according to new age spiritualists.

Isn’t judging being judgmental a judgement therefore bad within itself & to judge the ego as being bad isn’t that being judgemental? So are new age spiritualists actually manifesting the so called bad of the world? You have got to wonder because before they became spiritually aware they didn’t have a problem with egos & judgment & a multitude of other things.

Take the following quote that was recently presented on an internet site “The problem is not enjoyment; the problem is attachment”, enjoyment usually represents attachments of some kind as an emotional human being can’t attach itself usually to something that isn’t enjoyable in some way, this would psychologically be impossible.

I could go on with this but the question is, is new age spirituality a contradiction within itself & is it manifesting/adding to the problems in the world?

  • May 10 2013: Hi Mathew!!! Long time no see.

    Your opening remarks reminded me of this poem by Shel Silverstein:

    I asked the zebra,
    Are you black with white stripes?
    Or white with black stripes?
    And the zebra asked me,
    Are you good with bad habits?
    Or are you bad with good habits?
    Are you noisy with quiet times?
    Or quite with noisy times?
    Are you happy with some sad days?
    Or are you sad with some happy days?
    Are you neat with some sloppy ways?
    Or are you sloppy with some neat ways?
    And on and on and on and on
    And on and on he went.
    I'll never ask a zebra
    About stripes
    Again.

    I have no idea what the answer to your question is. I hope the contributors to your conversation help you find an answer.
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      May 10 2013: G’day Mary

      Yes, I’ve been on holiday for a couple of weeks, love camping, just thought I would come back & cause a little more trouble which some people have taken literally by the seems of it but I do deserve what I get…wellll most of the times!!!!!!

      This is a good one Mary & so appropriate. I have found tooooo many spiritually aware people who call themselves new age spiritualists finding conflicts with everything including negative words that should never be spoken probably like the word trouble. I’m trying to point out they are causing themselves unnecessary conflicts & trouble when all they need to do is accept the black & white stripes to find true awareness & enlightenment if that is what they desire.

      Don’t get me wrong Mary I think new age spirituality can be quite beneficial but it seems so fake & untrue to itself to me in a lot of ways at present but of course that’s just me.

      Love
      Mathew
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        May 10 2013: I have not figured out whether new age spiritualism is one belief system or many under an "umbrella" term. I have noticed the judgmental aspect in some followers as well as every appearance of having an outsized ego at the same time as professing a belief in having no ego. I have also seen an expressed belief in empathy alongside actual mean behaviors.

        But this says little to me about what new age spirituality is actually supposed to mean- only the contradictory attributes of some who identify themselves with that belief system.
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          May 10 2013: G'day Fritzie

          What is new age spirituality supposed to mean? I thought it was acceptance of all unlike the older types of religious concepts of spirituality which was dictated by doctrines that anyone could read in whatever they wanted too as long as it was in the name of the lord, I would like to think this new age spirituality was past these corruptive concept of manipulations but I’m not so sure as one can read into this new age spirituality what they like in the name of whatever they choose.

          An actual spiritualist to me would be one who doesn’t judge at all including he’s or hers ego thus non-conflictive but so many new age spiritualists call themselves spiritualists before they have stopped judging which isn’t quite right. I’m just a spiritually aware person myself but I seem to have a little more acceptance of things like the ego & judgment than most thus I seem less conflictive unless I’m trying to make a point like here.

          It would be utterly impossible for every human being to become a spiritualist & we shouldn’t expect them & ourselves too, conscious change or not in my mind anyway.

          Love
          Mathew
        • May 10 2013: Matthew said: "An actual spiritualist to me would be one who doesn’t judge at all..."

          I think the operative word is actually 'self'-control'.

          We all label, we all judge. Anybody who says they do not label and judge is a ______ (you can fill in the blank)

          However, a person who has reflected and meditated on the negative outcomes of labeling and judging, stops himself or herself from voicing their judgements and outright labeling people........they kind of have a mastery over themselves, and when these tendencies creep in they kind of shake it off.

          Think of grocery shopping.....you know not everything in the supermarket is healthy to eat.
          Your mind, based on knowledge of nutrition, distinguishes between healthy food, and unhealthy food........you label the foods.......Other people, not so much. They just see it as food. They don't label anything....it's all good, taste good, makes you feel good, fills you up when you're hungry, if it was bad for you the government wouldn't allow it to be sold, etc....etc.....

          So labeling, is sometimes a good thing.....it just depends on your perspective, your insight, your knowledge.

          As far as New Age mumbo jumbo.....meh.

          I like what Colleen said......lots of ideas are labeled "New".....but it's the same wisdom that has been going around for ages.

          I like what the Bible says: "There is nothing new under the sun" (Wise King Solomon)
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    May 12 2013: Labels like "New Age Spiritualists" seem to separate one group of people out from others - a place of safety in numbers, from which to criticise other groups of people. Separation almost gives permission to judge others, no matter how ethical/moralistic it feels from the standpoint of one's chosen group. I know this, because I lapse into doing it myself; I admit I have to consciously put the brakes on every time I catch myself doing it.

    Morality and ethics does not lie in concentrated groups. It lies in the empathic understanding of all groups - no matter how dysfunctional they might seem. Only that can remove the need for the kind of judgement that stems from ego.
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      May 12 2013: G'day Allan

      I think all honest & genuine people laps into this trap Allan & of course the dishonest one's don't, well in their mind anyway.

      You have made some very good points as it does take an empathic understanding which all spiritually aware people should be aware of, acceptance of all not just of the one's we want to accept.

      It would seem the more labels we put on things the more conflict we have, could you imagine a world without labels, what a thought!!

      Love
      Mathew
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      May 12 2013: Well said....as usual Allan:>)
      That is why I do not like labels and catagorizing individuals or groups of people, because it serves to seperate and provides a place from which to criticise and judge others. I wholeheartedly agree...morality lies in the empathic understanding of everyone, regardless of what group s/he may be a part of.

      I agree Mathew...the more labels we use, the more conflict we may have in our world, and as you insightfully say, it is beneficial to accept all beliefs, if those beliefs and practices do not adversly impact other people.
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    May 10 2013: un, good question, but matthew don't you ever concern yourself with real-world problems?
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      May 10 2013: G'day Greg

      Good question Greg, yes I do & this is one of them believe it or not.

      The dark ages where built up on falsities, deception & most of all contradictions, what is the difference between spirituality of the dark ages & this new age spirituality? Both are contradictory, at times, within their concepts, the people before the dark ages ignored the signs & look at what happened not saying it could happen again but!!

      For another example, this is synchronicity for you, I was told last night of a young girl who had certain problems one was with crowds, this young lass wanted to go into a pageant. To cut a long story short she succeeded at losing here fear of crowds but most of all performing in front of crowds.

      A lot of new age spiritualists look at the ego as being negative but look at egotism in utter distaste with no apparent positive attributes. The story above shows what not just the ego but egotism can positively do for people living in fear. I have been on numerous spiritual forums & not once have I heard a new age spiritualist say that egotism can be positive & in actual fact quite the opposite. This demonising certain things is an awfully strange spiritual concept!!

      New age spirituality is scary stuff & negative within itself which isn't that much different to the dark ages where they also looked at everything not of their faith & teachings as being negative in some way.


      Love
      mathew
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        May 16 2013: Yeah, I'm having trouble reading this, Matthew. But I apologize for my original comment, it was rude and out of line, of course you concern yourself with real-world problems. But I am wondering who you are in the practical world, for example do you work, what line of work do you do? How strong are you on more "physical" activities, for example do you play sports, or walk, or....?
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          May 16 2013: G'day Greg

          Not at all Greg & I didn't take it that way, I too can be a little to rough around the edges at times & have to apologize for my indiscretion.

          I'm a semi-retired carpenter/joiner who is now at this time on a disability pension because of certain injuries obtained over the years; life does have a habit in catching up with you.

          I'm not a small bloke probably for the main reason that I was self-employed in my own trade for some time. I love camping, bush walking, kayaking, bird watching the feathered variety at times & now writing which is normally about science/psychology & spirituality.

          If you want to know how strong I am altogether, I had a serious fall when I was 6 yrs old & fully dislocated my right elbow, this was never put back in place believe it or not which of course most people don't but living out in the bush you have to put up with certain things & this coupled with obvious neglect & abuse makes me who I am today. It's amazing what one can do with an injury like mine when you show a little grit, I've performed in work other fully able people were unable to do & latter on down the track while tutoring other people with various disabilities all these experiences paid off big time.

          You could say I'm full of grit & determination which I might not have had if it wasn't for my experiences but of course one has to live through them to benefit, many sadly don't.

          Love
          Mathew
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          May 16 2013: G'day Kate

          Same here.

          I have a lot of passion, grit & determination, it is unreal how one can turn a so called negative into a positive, your a little that way Kate!!
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        May 17 2013: Would you say you had to learn how to camp, Mat? Or did you just teach yourself? Do any TED conversations come to your mind that involve kayaking, bush walking, etc? I'd enjoy those, it might mix it up a little from the spiritual topics.
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        May 19 2013: out of curiosity, Mat, do you write anywhere but TED about spirituality or psychology?

        Yes, one thing I value in my day is variety, I always try to put some variety in there.

        Yes, I probably don't care too much about spirituality, at least it's not my main focus. Probably I'm more interested in things in the physical world, I probably think if you can get life right in the very concrete, physical way, the spirituality will take care of itself.
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          May 19 2013: G'day Greg

          On my blog of course but various other spiritual forum sites & a noetic site.

          I tried to recently post a topic on Ted about insanity but it wasn't accepted which is sort of understandable because it might have brought up unconscious issues in others adversely.

          Yes I agree with you that if you get life right in the very concrete physical world spirituality will take care of itself & the reason for that is the whole of life itself is spiritual. I'm not your typical spiritually aware person who only sees spirituality in what makes me feel good as true spirituality isn't just about desires but about life itself so yes I would agree with you fully.

          I can't talk about what I don't know or talk about the things I don't want to talk about like the economy or politics for instance, there's enough doing that now on TED. My main interest or interests period are limited unlike yours obviously are Greg so I'm sorry my topics are also going to be limited.

          Love
          Mathew

          PS Believe it or not I have had some of my writings published in a metaphysics mag in the US so I must be doing something right.
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        May 21 2013: Somehow forgive me, Mat, I slightly want to nudge you toward the physical world. Here's a question I have: When I was a kid, my parents pointed out to me how important your blood is, it is your blood that takes the nourishment from your food and carries it all around your body so that all your cells can eat and continue living. Now, at age 53, I believe I can feel that process happening, I believe I can feel the cells of my body eating from my blood, the cells in my arms, cells in my neck, cells all over my body. But I'm the only person I've met who says they can feel that. I wonder, can you feel your body eating the nourishment from your blood, or have you ever met anyone else who says they can feel that?
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          May 21 2013: G'day Greg

          No not personally Greg but this obviously says your very much in touch with your physical self which is great.

          Not too many people would admit such things as they probably would think it would make them seem lame in some way, shallowness.

          Love
          Mathew
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        May 16 2013: Ouch. Yeah, I apologized to Matthew above. Well, I think of myself as interested in real-world activities, for example, I gather you enjoyed my exercise video? (Thanks for watching.)
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          May 16 2013: G'day Greg

          It looks like I've collected a few adversaries which is normal for someone who speaks their own mind, every time someone has ago at me they end a up with multiple likes which sadly shows how small minded they are.

          To be an adversary of anyone is to have a small mind as it's only small minded people who think of such things. I don't have a small mind but I do have a loopy one.

          Love
          Mathew
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        May 17 2013: By the way, have you ever heard the song "I'll be your mirror," by the Velvet Underground and Nico? Quite lovely.
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          May 17 2013: G’day Greg

          I see what you are coming at, too much of one thing which isn’t quite correct as my last topic was more to do with psychology, I do try to right about things I know which is science & spirituality, the science being more of the psychological side of things.

          This topic is actually having ago at certain concepts of spirituality so it’s a little different to the norm as most spiritualists & otherwise will defend their concepts & beliefs to the bitter end. I could talk about pain, abuse & neglect but that’s old hat for me plus it was spirituality & a lot of humour that got me through. I could talk about insanity which I’m seriously thinking of doing which was brought on by the pain I was in but that’s in line with psychology & the things that stopped me going completely insane was spirituality & humour, spirituality saved my life literally.

          I know to you spirituality doesn’t seem to be high on your agenda but to most people in the world it’s an important influence in their lives & is a real concern, we are still seriously causing conflicts because of our spiritual beliefs so you could say spirituality has a lot more to do with real world concerns than getting & staying fit for example, staying fit hasn’t caused too many wars that I know of however it has saved many lives.

          We all have had our own life changing experiences to one extent or another, mines just spirituality I’m afraid where’s yours might be exercise. See how our modes of thought dictate who we are & how we associate with others & what gives us our importance in life which is what I wrote about in my last topic.

          Love
          Mathew
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        May 19 2013: See if you like it, Kate, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfhZwbMqbkE
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    May 23 2013: New age, what is it? No one I know would say they belong to New age-spirituality, but some of them would probably say that about some others and it would be different persons who got labelled, depending whom I asked. I sometimes use the label and it never has a positive value when I do.
    So it´s easy and there is no risk involved if you bash New age...

    About judgement and ego: In meditation- and through teachers of meditation, masters of meditation, poets, sages, mystics - I have seen the possibility to watch the judgement and watch the ego- just watch- and you will see how much more there is to existence, then those two small concepts. No need to stay all caught up and entangled - even if you wanted you can´t because everything is changing...

    Life is full of contradictions and anyone who gets upset over that will have trouble!
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      May 23 2013: G'day Anna

      This is a very good reply but of course only because I agree with everything you said here.

      In regards to ego & judgement all we have to be is more aware & as you say stop being entangles within it, become the observer.

      Thank you for such a thought provoking answer Anna.

      Love
      Mathew
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    May 14 2013: Mary.......(I have a daughter named Mary) I really had no thought that I was being courageous. I was astonished at such a response because it appears to me that this is a no brainer. Thanks :)
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    May 13 2013: People are not bad. People do bad things. That does not define the person.
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      May 13 2013: G'day Helen

      Most definitely Helen as we can all do bad things however at the point of doing bad that does define that person at that time but it doesn't tell us truly who the person is only part of who the person is. Yes we can define a person as being bad period by one action which isn't who they are which we must be all wary of.

      We are not saying these people are bad just misguided like anyone who is misguided with anything.

      Love
      Mathew
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        May 13 2013: Thank you for replying. I attended a study at my church and the person in charge said men were evil. I challenged that, saying that the worth of a person is not determined by their actions. I speak of intrinsic worth. I was treated like a pariah. But I still embrace the poet Rumi's quote..".There is only love and a cry for love." Regards, Helen
        • May 13 2013: Scripture, time and again, shows us that God hates the sin, not the sinner.
          There is only one exception to this scriptural principle. The exception is found in Psalms 11:5. Read it in your own copy of the Bible.

          Yesterday in our congregation meeting the speaker brought out an interesting point about Uzziah, Judah's king for 52 years (829-778 B.C.E.).

          Uzziah's triumphs evidently got the better of him. The scriptures tell of his going into the Holy compartment of the temple to burn incense, something Kings were not allowed to do. God did not stop him from burning the incence.

          When the High Priest censured him for this presumptuous act, the scriptures say that "Uzziah became enraged"........what happened next? Well, I'll leave you with this cliff hanger. The account is in 2 Chronicles 26:16-21.

          Notice that it wasn't until Uzziah's words and attitude towards God's appointed shepherds revealed his heart condition, that God stepped in. Perhaps if he had had a different attitude towards the reprimand, the outcome of the story would have been different.


          You were very brave to have spoken up for truth. And like a quote that I have says:

          "The truth, is still the truth, even in a minority of one".
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    May 12 2013: I'm not sure how relevant this is.
    Yet I'v always liked a quote by Karl Marx :
    "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"
    Maybe our cries for "spirituality" is the "spirit of the spiritless world"?
    Considering Humans always strive for improvement, and some form of "happiness".
    It's possible our "New Age Spirituality" is just another method at trying to achieve this "happiness" and fulfilment in our lives. I mean at the end of the day, most of "ethics" is more emotional than logically consistent.
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      May 12 2013: G'day Bernard

      Yes I would have to agree on this however not everyone who is spiritually minded is looking for happiness or some sort of improvement in life like myself for instance also there are a lot of actual so called spiritualists in places like India who have given up all comforts & material possessions however you are right for the majority of people who are spiritually minded.

      I would say most people who become spiritually aware are looking at benefiting from it in some way & this new age spiritualism is but another way to obtain what we desire which in all doesn't sound to spiritual to me however is there truly anything wrong in trying to better oneself & become happier in the process? Well there is when we are not truthful &/or genuine about it but also not disruptive of other people's lives which the dark ages is a prime example of untruthful, non-genuine disruptive & corrupt spiritual ideology which can quite easily happen again I believe especially under harsh adversities.

      Most spiritualistic feelings are emotionally driven otherwise we wouldn't humanly react but most of us do, there are spiritualists who use logic instead of human emotions but of course we don't hear from them because they are humanly emotionally detached, their attachment is far deeper than just being human as humans are but the tip of the ice berg.

      This was a good point to bring up Bernard I thank you for it, genuinely.

      Love
      Mathew
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    May 11 2013: Hi Mathew!!
    How old is this New Age really? :D
    I think spirituality is as old and new as the spirit. It will be remarkably silly to brand it, contemporarize it or make it a group act. If one does that spirituality evaporates and the residue left is called a cult.
    Spirituality is profoundly private, IMO.
    In the tradition of an ascetic of Indic culture, I pursued it for 20 years. The ascetic tradition encourages to give up all attachments, and it is possible I tell you. One can grow out of one's body and mind and in that state observe one's own self and others and what is seen can appear funny and pointless. But life of an ascetic is not for me. For long I thought the small attachments of life that I always get entangled with as a weakness - now I realize, that is how I am to be.
    I am nothing but the connections I constantly make.
    Will you call that a New age spirituality, my friend?
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      May 11 2013: G'day Pabitra

      Very good point Pabitra, how many cults & fundamentalist religious groups do we have today as they are all throw offs from some main source which is us.

      The funny thing is I get into certain states of consciousness that all of a sudden I’m just smiling all the time for apparently no reason until I wake up to what I am smiling about, it’s usually me I’m smiling at because of my thoughts & actions seem lame & pointless as you said. I’m the same as you I love my entanglements as I’m sure that is what I came here to do.

      Is new age spirituality something to do with different ways in reconnecting ourselves or is it being content & accepting in what we have & are? I think it’s the latter in my mind if we were going to put a label on it which I don’t think we should or more to the point have to as it just is. I love is-ness by the way because is-ness doesn’t have an opposite to conflict with because it just is, labels represent conflicts. Could you imagine living in a reality with no labels, you couldn’t have a conflict even if you wanted to & what a shame that would be!!! This is where I clash with science because science wants to put labels on everything.

      Love
      Mathew
      • May 13 2013: Mathew: While I admire your enthusiasm, have you thought about what it would be like if your wish came true? I mean doing away with labels. It would be impossible to make the most ordinary observations, instructions to the young, even language itself would have to be foregone. As you suggest Science would be impossible, but so would making the most mundane operations, like baking a cake.
        Confuscius in China years ago came to the opposite conclusion: he thought it was the main job of educated people to make sure that the "labels" were accurate, thus avoiding, or at least clarifying, the conflicts that you envision. That is the main reason that the Chinese today "suffer" from a lack of Lawyers, and respect for lawyers.
        Labels are also a great labor saving device. It enables conveying efficiently a great deal of information without having to "reinvent the wheel" with every transaction'
        What you envision reminds me of the great "Freedom of Choice" that a large Chinese menu presents to an illiterate person: hundreds of dishes to choose from, but you don't know what any of them are.
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          May 13 2013: G'day Shawn

          As usual anything to do with spirituality is a bit of a paradox, humans need labels to define things & even rediscovering ourselves through practices like science however you have to admit labels have caused a lot of problems as well.

          If we take a look at religion & religious wars it is labels that have helped create these conflicts, if a Catholic & a Moore weren't labelled & definable would the Spanish inquisition have occurred? It couldn't because everyone is of the same no matter what belief one abides by.

          In saying this if we were more consciously aware & sophisticated we wouldn't need labels because we would telepathically know without labels in what was in foods for example & this is very possible taking into consideration one can change the form of a water crystals by just thought alone. Of course if we used telepathy today conflicts would still be a main part of our existence without labels as we would still detect differences within each other however I think by the time we all become telepathic we also would have become much more sophisticated, well hopefully anyway.

          Love
          Mathew
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    May 10 2013: G’day Mary

    Yes self-control is more appropriate.

    This is it Mary, I have had so many new age spiritualists say this that & the other is negative that’s it full stop because that is the way they have been taught to think instead of thinking for themselves. I had a synchronistic moment last night as I was told of a story of a young girl who benefited from being egotistical big time by the sounds of it but a new age spiritualist wouldn’t have a bar of this.

    Everything that man has got to live his life out in this reality is good unless we manipulate it to suite ourselves which is also very human but can be quite destructive & disruptive to others & this is where spirituality is supposed to come in & give us balance again & not demonize this that & the other because it’s against certain new age spiritual concepts.

    There is definitely nothing new under the sun as humans have always manipulated to their own ends but it would be nice if we didn’t do this through spiritualism for once.

    Love
    Mathew
    • May 11 2013: There is another scripture that I read early in my studies.
      It is in the book of Ecclesiastes, also written by Solomon.
      "man has dominated man to his detriment".

      In other words, whenever one human is 'over' another human, it is easily possible to hurt the one on the bottom.

      Spiritualism is no exception.

      Religion is no exception.

      Politics is no exception.

      Even the family is no exception.

      Love Matthew, love is the proper motivation for helping others gain spiritual insight.

      As a Christian, I see my sharing the good news of God's kingdom with others as an act of love.
      But each individual must decide for themselves how to live their life. I share a message, and leave it at that. We have free will. We are each endowed with our own mental faculties, and are responsible for ourselves.
      Regardless, of whether we serve our Creator or not, scripture says that he makes it rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. People in prison still enjoy a rainy day don't they? What a lesson for us.

      Treat people with respect and dignity, don't judge them, if you have something your fellow man needs and it is in your power to give it to them, then do so.......all of these are principles found in scripture. Many individuals apply them in their lives and yet are not religious.......but they are spiritually minded, and love their neighbor.

      I think perhaps you have wonderful metacognitive skills. You realize when something just doesn't have the ring of truth, and you walk away. That is fine.

      Love is the key Matthew.....you cannot go wrong with giving love.
      Prayer might help you if you feel that you need direction.

      I hope my thoughts bring some sort of comfort to you Mathew.

      "Life is hard, but just think, each year we get a free trip around the sun for FREE"

      Be Well,
      Mary
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        May 11 2013: G’day Mary

        It is good being back reading the stuff that people like yourself put out I have to admit Mary.

        Love is definitely a major key one can use to find connection again with God or their inner self which to me is the same thing. When I become more connected at various times the love is obvious but only if one is connected, once you become disconnected again the love doesn’t feel like it’s there until we become connected again but of course it’s always there & always has been.

        I’m not a religious person but I do believe in a creator not necessarily just of man & if you look at it in one way or another we came from one source. If you’re just scientifically minded we still came from one source so that one source is quite significant either way you look at it.

        It’s really funny to hear new age people talk about theology dying & wanting it to die, I can’t see it dying but it will & is going through change. Some scientists are looking at this web that is strewn throughout the universe & are thinking now that this universe was created by something that had intelligence.

        Judging is a funny one, one can constructively judge like you look beautiful today or the day is wonderful it is still judging but everyone looks at judgment meaning something more negative like you look horrible today or the days terrible but it’s not just like the ego. I see judging as a constructive tool to use not just a destructive tool but that’s just me I suppose looking at most things with rose coloured glasses & why not when I see it as the truth.
        Yes you treat other as you would want them to treat you in the nicest way possible at any given time.

        Love
        Mathew
        • May 11 2013: There are not many New Age people around here, but I have read quite alot on it, and have spoken to many New Age people on line.

          I like your thought......we came from one source......
    • May 13 2013: Mathew:

      Curious that you seem to be against "Spiritualism", but at the same time believe we are all "connected". As a sort of pseudo-Buddhist. I'm sure you are right, though I think it is a matter of being all part of one "Consciousness Field", analogous to an Electric Field. Why not call it Spiritualist, although that can be too vague a term to be easily understood by people who think that the "Individual" is real, but the Group is not.
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        May 13 2013: G'day Shawn

        It does sound a little hypocritical on my part doesn't it!!!!

        Don’t get me wrong Shawn I’m not against spiritualism I just like to question some of its concepts & ideological practices at times like I do with anything else, we don’t want to end up in the dark ages again not saying that’s a huge threat but who really knows for sure!!

        I’ve been spiritually aware since my early teens, I am now 49 yrs old but I will question my own & other people’s concepts if I see an indiscretion, maybe I’m too logical or think too much to be spiritually aware but I am aware!!

        I think we need to change the way we practice & look at spiritualism & that is what I do, my blogs about acceptance which includes not accepting at times as well, accept to be non-accepting at times which in this case includes not accepting possible harmful contradictions within a belief. If I sat on my bottom & said nothing about a wrong, in my eyes, being done it would be spiritually irresponsible of me not to at least say something as I owe that to my fellow man to say something even if I’m wrong.

        I came to a point in my mid-teens that I could have been totally connected to my inner self & lived an utter life of spiritual bliss but I chose not to. I got to a conscious point that I could ask any question & get an immediate answer which in my mind wasn’t exactly too human & I didn’t come here to be anything else but human obviously otherwise I wouldn’t be here like everybody else.

        Yes I’m slightly hypercritical but only according to our present spiritual belief system or state of conscious awareness & I know you didn’t say hypercritical but I did because I like to look at myself truthfully as possible.

        Love
        Mathew
        • May 13 2013: Mathew: No need to beat yourself up about "hypocritical". Contradictions are built into the standard Christian-Atheist-Newtonian World View, that's why its so inadequate. And all the "Enlightened Ones " through the Ages seem to agree that it is a matter of sudden "Insight" to get a more realistic view of what is going on. Slow, steady, Hard Thinking is not going to get you there in any predictable way.
          I'm reminded of a Mark Twain quote about how Christians congratulate themselves on their beliefs" just because " they are so unbelievable. But a great deal of present "common knowledge" consists of things once considered unbelievable, such as Heliocentricity.
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    May 10 2013: Hi Mathew,
    I find the labels "new age" and "new psychology" amusing, because some folks would like to say they are giving us "new" ideas, when in fact, most of the supposedly "new" information has been passed down throughout history by sages, gurus, teachers, psychologists, prophets, etc.! I don't really see much that is "new" in these ideas, and it is always good to reinforce information that may be beneficial to us (humans).

    I agree with you that being judgemental is not very usefull. That being said, judgemental seems to be a behavior that some folks do not want to detach from, and it often feeds the ego.

    I agree with you that sometimes when one thinks s/he is more "enlightened" than everyone else, that person may begin to judge and label other folks, which DOES indeed seem to be a contradiction. I do not perceive it to be a contradiction of the teachings, but perhaps a contradiction within certain people who believe they have discovered something new (it may be new for them), and are going to show everyone else how enlightened they are.

    I personally do not perceive the ego as "bad" because it is a part of all of us. I believe the best practice is to understand and recognize the ego for what it is, and be able to function without the ego dominating one's life.
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      May 10 2013: G'day Colleen

      To me, if you don't mind, you seem more like a new age spiritualist than most but hopefully that's not just because you agreed with me on some points.

      Yes I utterly agree there is nothing new about new age spirituality only that more people are making money off it than ever.

      I had a chat to a bloke a while ago who was into Yoga & his wife was a Yoga teacher/instructor, he had no idea that Yoga was of the spiritual, now what is being taught in the new age spiritual workshops? I think a lot of this new age stuff comes from much older spiritual practices but is manipulated to make it look new to make money off of very sadly enough.

      If you take a look at my reply to Greg it tells a story of how egotism helped this little girl. My question is why do new age spiritually aware people demonize a thought concept that goes against their belief system when they are not supposed to be egotistical themselves? Being judgmental can be & often is quite destructive but it obviously has its place like anything else.

      The funny thing is I thought I was a new age spiritualist but thank God I came out of that ideological mode of thought process otherwise I would also be defending new age spirituality to the utter end.

      Reading your last couple of lines yes I would agree fully with you, we live in the ego, I believe as soon as we have decided, at the soul level, to live out a physical life we are of the ego, the funny thing is gurus & alike strip themselves of possessions, egotism & judgment but they are in fact still living out an egotistical life, to a certain extent, by existing in a physical reality but it’s better than actually living by the ego.

      Love
      Mathew
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        May 11 2013: I do not mind what you write Mathew, because what you write is a reflection of YOU, not of me:>)

        You are indeed entertaining, in my humble perception! I tell you clearly and honestly what I think/feel about new age "stuff", and you need to say..."you seem more like a new age spiritualist than most". You are welcome to your opinion Mathew, and it seems like you are labeling and judging, which is amusing, considering this discussion! LOL!

        Here's a little more information....
        My mom taught me most of the good lessons when I was a wee little lass, and she would be over 100 years old if she was still alive. As an adult, I studied, researched, and practiced several religious and philosophical beliefs for many many years, some of which go back hundreds of years.

        Let's see....the "new age" stuff started emerging a few years ago? And when it did, I asked...what the heck is "new" about any of this? Nothing! It was taught a very long time ago. Actually, I believe in a form of reincarnation, so I might have gotten the lessons the very first time around:>)

        I did not say "we live in the ego" Mathew. I wrote..."
        I personally do not perceive the ego as "bad" because it is a part of all of us. I believe the best practice is to understand and recognize the ego for what it is, and be able to function without the ego dominating one's life".

        Are you trying to genuinely have a conversation? Or are you trying to convince all of us that you are "right" about something? It feels like the latter.
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          May 11 2013: G'day Colleen

          Hang on Colleen don't by so defensive, if I write about me I wright about you as we are all connected. I don't separate myself above or below a mass murderer lets say, he is of me as I am of him, in this way there is less conflict on my part plus it's the truth as I see it.

          Colleen as you have said of me, what you write is a reflection of YOU, not of me:>), if you think I'm right & I'm trying to convince you of that that is your own reflection of yourself obviously not mine according to what you have written here.

          If the ego is a apart of us all that is in my mind living the ego, in contrary to egotism, as it's impossible to live in the ego without it being a part of us.

          Love
          Mathew
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        May 11 2013: No defense on my part Mathew. I simply like to clarify in hopes that you may better understand what I am expressing:>)

        I too believe we are all connected. That being said, however, we all may have different thoughts, feelings, ideas, and opinions. So, no, you do not speak for me, and I will clarify if I see that happening......which I did. This is not about putting oneself above or below, as you say. It is to clarify my personal beliefs, I respect your personal beliefs and, it is ok if we do not agree.

        Yes absolutely! What I write is indeed a reflection of me, I take full responsibility for what I write, and when someone tries to manipulate my words to fit his/her own agenda, I will most certainly clarify.

        Regarding the ego.....here is what I wrote:
        "I personally do not perceive the ego as "bad" because it is a part of all of us. I believe the best practice is to understand and recognize the ego for what it is, and be able to function without the ego dominating one's life". Again, it is ok if we do not agree:>)

        Love to you too Mathew:>)
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          May 11 2013: G'day Colleen

          It is good that we can have a debate & disagree without becoming too bitter or narky.

          To use the word Manipulation to me seems very defensive or offensive especially when that wasn’t the case on my part, it is amazing how we can all think so differently but we all make the mistake in thinking everyone else is thinking in the same way as we do, if you think I manipulated that is you not me remember!!

          That isn’t exactly what you wrote Colleen as it’s more like this “I did not say "we live in the ego" Mathew. I wrote..."
          I personally do not perceive the ego as "bad" because it is a part of all of us. I believe the best practice is to understand and recognize the ego for what it is, and be able to function without the ego dominating one's life".

          If you look at this you could call this manipulation as well, it is funny though I also use stronger words than what is necessary at times as I think the majority of us do, we all should be wary of this.

          I was thinking last night I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to be doing even though at times I don’t like what I am doing as it seems to be teaching people to look at themselves honestly & please don’t take offence as this is in regard to everybody including myself because I am also learning from others.

          We are both spiritually aware as opposed to being a spiritualist but we are both quite feisty in a similar way which is no different to a person who isn’t spiritually aware, I find that interesting.

          Love
          Mathew
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        May 11 2013: Yes Mathew, it is wonderful to have a debate without becoming too "bitter or narky", as you insightfully say:>)

        Sorry the word manipulation seems defensive or offensive to you. Yes, it is amazing how we can all think so differently, and I DO NOT presume that everyone is thinking in the same way. I recognize that people have different thoughts, feelings, ideas, opinions and perspectives, and I respect that Mathew:>)

        Mathew, I copied my statement every single time I tried to clarify for you....here it is again....
        "I personally do not perceive the ego as "bad" because it is a part of all of us. I believe the best practice is to understand and recognize the ego for what it is, and be able to function without the ego dominating one's life".

        That is what I wrote....that is what I copied for you several times now, so to say "That isn’t exactly what you wrote Colleen" seems kind of foolish at this point....don't you think?

        Mathew, you write..."I also use stronger words than what is necessary at times as I think the majority of us do, we all should be wary of this".

        Just to be clear again, I do NOT use stronger words than are necessary. I speak/write simply and clearly.

        I do not label myself "feisty" Mathew, and I don't see why you would want to label and judge me in that way. I am simply clear with communications:>)
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          May 11 2013: G'day Colleen

          I'm utterly bewildered of what you have written here Colleen, that's OK as we all do indeed live by different modes of thought for what ever purpose we have in life.

          Love
          Mathew
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        May 11 2013: Dear Mathew,
        If you are "utterly bewildered" by what I have written, perhaps you could go back and evaluate what YOU have written, because my comment is a very simple response to what YOU have written:>)
        What are you honestly seeking with this conversation?
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          May 12 2013: G'day Colleen

          Your misjudging me again, you are using a lot of higher case words for starters which psychologically represent aggression or annoyance to one extent or another depending on what else is written. With my knowledge of psychology, which I had to learn while working in the welfare arena, I would say your quite annoyed or aggressive & you will read into what ever you want Colleen as you usually do.

          Love
          Mathew
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        May 12 2013: Mathew,
        I have not judged you, nor am I annoyed or aggressive. I am simply responding to your comments, and clarifying, over and over again, what I have clearly written.
  • Comment deleted

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      May 10 2013: G’day Kate

      Yes it’s sort of good to be back if you know what I mean!!

      This is the point, if you are going to voice your opinion in any way that is of the ego, if you are writing books even trying to help others that is of the ego because it’s the ego that makes us interact with others, thank God. I love the ego & judgment because it says I’m alive & alive within myself, I didn’t come here to be some sort of entity void of interaction otherwise why would I came here in the first place?

      I read a while ago on a study that was conducted by scientist on Buddhist monks who meditated daily & Christians who prayed & sung hymns, they all had simular brain activity while practicing in these rituals. The amazing part was in the one singing hymns, the part of the brain that controlled speech totally shut down but other parts of the brain became more active.

      I didn’t find the link I wanted too to show that we still think while meditating but these two links tell a similar story. It would seem we still have some sort of brain activity going on while meditating however it does change somewhat.

      http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_brain01.htm

      http://www.crystalinks.com/medbrain.html

      Love
      Mathew
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    W. Ying

    • +1
    May 10 2013: .
    .
    Yes!

    Invalid happiness makes the "contradiction".
    Be Happy Validly and all will be OK.
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      May 10 2013: G'day W.Ying

      Simple but it says it all in a nut shell. Are spiritually aware people happy if they desire to be better than they are or are suppose to be & is this not of the ego? Why do so many spiritually aware people desire to manifest a better existence other than what they have obviously chosen to live in? Be happy, content & accepting & through this it will be OK because a manifested better existence will happen automatically if you do as you have said here I believe.

      Love
      Mathew
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        May 11 2013: .Hi Mathew,
        .
        Thanks!

        My answers to your questions:

        (1) To the first;
        Not ego if not greed
        because valid happiness is the feeling of things being a-step-better for keeping our DNA alive.

        (2) To the second:
        ibid.


        Wrong?


        Love
        W.
        .
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          May 11 2013: G'day W.Ying

          I do find it strange how one can exclude the ego when we are the ego otherwise we wouldn't have egotistically bothered existing in a physical reality like this one so from the start we are of the ego. The ego is exceptionally positive because without the ego our DNA wouldn't evolve & neither would our souls I believe even egotism can be a positive thing as discussed in other replies.

          Are you saying we didn't choose to live in a certain way or are you saying that many spiritually aware people don't desire to manifest a better existence when you said wrong?

          I believe we all have chosen to build up on a new species which we call man living out our different modes of thought which is DNA building. I think many new age spiritualists do desire a better existence which is what we are suppose to be doing anyway but one can't build up on a new or better existence without the ego but of course I could be wrong like anyone else.

          Love
          Mathew
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    May 10 2013: Judgment is only bad when you attach information that isn't relevant. You judge things constantly. Merriam Webster defines judgement as "the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing".

    This, in itself, is not inherently negative. However, when you evaluate something and add unrelated data it can become negative.

    Let's say you find a red box on the side of your house. You open the red box to find a snake inside. From that point you judge all red boxes the same. "They must have snakes inside". You can see how that judgment is flawed. There's no way to know what a box has inside until you open it.

    However, this judgment is a way you protect yourself. There is a chance, based on logic, that all red boxes have snakes. The issue is you have no way of evaluating the probability of this assumption. This is because the judgment is not based on probability or what outcome is more plausible. It is based on assumptions.

    Judgments based on assumptions are also not inherently negative. They should serve as a guide. "This red box could have a snake in it".

    Instead of refusing to open the box you should take precautions. Embracing assumptions with no substantial information to back them up can set you up for failure. Even if you had found a snake inside the red box you cannot assume every red box must contain a snake. It should only add to the list of possible outcomes. The frequency of snakes inside red boxes would serve as a better indicator of probability.

    There is no evidence that new age spirituality is causing the problems in the world. I am not really sure what you are using to link the two.
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      May 10 2013: G’day Henry

      To make judgment period is conflictive no matter what, a true spiritualist does not judge therefore they have no conflicts however after being on a number of spiritual forums I find self-titled new age spiritualists are judgmental therefore have to be conflictive in some way which of course they say their not. They soon judge me after I disagree with them which are contradictory to their beliefs.

      There are too many spiritually aware people who call themselves spiritualist but they are obviously not because they judge & any judgment period is conflictive but a true spiritualist doesn’t judge because they know there is no reasoning in judgment even of oneself however when one is spiritually aware as opposed to being a spiritualist one has to have conflicts to achieve fulfilment through experience & that is what we are here for I believe.

      Here is an example of how some self-proclaimed spiritualists can be ignorant & judgmental. Science has proven while meditating you still think but most spiritually aware people won’t have this so I’m ostracised in some way which by the way isn’t very loving either which is yet another thing. Blatant deliberate ignorance & being contradictive within one’s own belief system would have to add to the troubles in the world, it wouldn’t help.

      So many spiritually aware people have conflicts while becoming aware like certain words are supposed to be negative, the ego is negative no matter what, & judgment is negative as well, if one was to look at each other & the world as just vibrative matter living out certain different modes of thought to others we wouldn’t look at everything, while becoming spiritually aware, as negative or positive just a difference, this is true acceptance. It’s scary what is being taught out their like manifesting for yourself for instance, not too spiritual to me but that’s just me I suppose.

      Love
      Mathew
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    May 23 2013: G'day Fellow TED Followers

    I would like to thank everyone who participated in this discussion & I wish you all well, av a good one.

    Love
    Mathew
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    May 13 2013: G'day Shawn

    I'm not really brow beating myself Shawn just being truthful, everyone has been hypocritical in one way or another in their lives & like with the ego & judgment I don't have a problem with hypocrisy as it just shows how human I am which I also don’t have a problem with. So how truly aware are we when becoming spiritually aware or are spiritual.

    I find it strange that some spiritually aware people have problems with these things, they are only a problem when we are unaware of them but of course if one is truly spiritually aware one shouldn’t have a problem with anything to do with humanism in the first place which makes us far less conflictive with life itself while becoming spiritually aware.

    A true spiritualist would have to be someone who isn’t conflictive at all with anything so this is saying Gurus & alike aren’t true spiritualists because they have a conflict with being & acting out certain parts of humanism like the ego, judgment & even hypocrisy, a strange concept but seemingly plausible.

    Our knowledge is only as good as our conscious understanding at the time, of course the world was once flat but now we are more aware & know it isn’t. I look at everything being of the spiritual including science as science is but a tool we use to rediscover ourselves, things make a lot more sense when we holistically look at them under one umbrella which sounds a lot like oneness.

    Love
    Mathew
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    May 13 2013: . Answer to Mathew's second comment below (2 days before May 12, 2013):

    Thanks a lot!
    You are right.

    For keeping DNA alive, we have to do ego.
    For doing ego, we have to do symbiosis.
    Greed (too much ego above its optimal point) destroys symbiosis.

    Right?
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      May 13 2013: G'day W, Ying

      I'm glad your not one of those spiritually aware people who have a problem with right or wrong as it's just expressive to our beliefs, I have no real problem or conflicts with other people's beliefs if they don't affect me.

      Yes greed's a problem, balance is the key I believe.

      Love
      Mathew
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        May 14 2013: .Thanks.
        .

        Yes!
        Well balanced is exactly at its optimal point

        Good luck!
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    May 11 2013: G'day Mary

    Does it seem I'm lumping all new age spiritualists in one basket? It does seem a little that way but not intentionally as the subject is about the strange contradictory concepts of new age spirituality not all the other genuine loving harmonious concepts that are a part of new age spirituality as well . This is like anything human, just because the minority of people in the world seem bad doesn’t make the majority seemingly bad as well.

    I’ve met a number of new age & indigo families & the difference to the average family circle is astounding in love & understanding in every way with no signs of animosity, the kids are so beautiful & well behaved, well most of the times. I just wonder, am I noticing the difference in new age spiritual families to the extent I am because of my own agnostic/atheist disharmonious upbringing? To me atheism & agnosticism represent ignorance as does various religious doctrines so being brought up in such an ignorant disharmonious upbringing new age spiritual families would probably stick out somewhat more. But on the other hand am I noticing them more because I am less ignorant & spiritually aware myself?

    One will always notice in other what they are themselves which I find quite interesting within myself at times especially when I’ve allowed myself to be upset by someone, you notice in others what you are or of course when one is becoming spiritually aware one will also feel more of what others are which really comes back to being one of the same but in a different way as you’re not acting out in the same disharmonious manner.

    If genuine new age/indigo families opened up their doors to the rest of the populous they would teach us all a thing or two I believe.

    Love
    Mathew
    • May 12 2013: G'day Mathew,

      From my point of view, after reading through this conversation....and I have read all the entries, I don't think you are lumping all new age spiritualists in one basket.

      I think my Shel Silverstein poem is so appropriate Mathew.......All of us are a little bit of everything......
      We are all humans.....with belief systems.

      I will agree/disagree with your statement "One will always notice in other what they are themselves".

      I find this generalization not quite accurate, and yet it is somewhat truthful.

      There are behaviors I observe in others which make me reflect and think "why would someone act like that, when there are other ways of dealing with this issue?".............and yet, I am seeing me.....I am seeing another imperfect human.

      So yes, I am not like others, I am me...different....but I am exactly like everybody else....human......a work in progress.......

      There are sincere kind people everywhere....in every nation, culture, language group, religion, socio-economic class, etc etc..

      It's good to discuss all this and get different perspectives and point of views from people in all walks of life, then sit and put the puzzle pieces together.....keep what helps you....discard the rest.

      I am no more intelligent or insightful than anybody else. I have just lived through different experiences, and I try to share them using what limited language skills I have. I have been benefitted immensely from reading everyone's insights on TED, whether I agree with them or not, it helps me understand my fellow human being.

      Happy Sunday!!
      Mary
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        May 12 2013: G'day Mary

        I went into this a fair bit more on my blog which I inserted my last reply to you with a link to this site & topic as I have found a lot of replies here worth sharing.

        When I say one will always notice in other what they are themselves I don't mean that is actually what we are or acting out but a part of us that could be us in the same circumstances. I will give you an example of this.

        I was talking to three elderly gentlemen some time ago & they where having ago at young people saying they didn't act like that in their days & never would have, I piped up & said "if we where born in these days we too would be acting in the same way with all the influences they have around them which we didn't have". Two out of the three elderly men agreed with me.

        Noticing others around us in different circumstances to us helps with our understanding that we too could in the same exact circumstances react in the same way as others who we are knocking. I could say that I would never think of being a mas murderer however if I had the same exact brain chemistry as a mass murderer I would do as they have done, it's within us all under different circumstances.

        You are more intelligent & insightful Mary as there is no other person on the Earth who will be more intelligent & insightful in the personal things you have experienced, in other words no one has ever or ever will be you & have the same exact experiences as you, now how special is that
        & that is how special everybody is & this is why no one has the right to kill another as everyone is special in this same exact way.

        You are special Mary as I am also.

        Love
        Mathew
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    May 10 2013: G'day Kate

    Yes most definitely Kate, the concepts of new age spirituality work in the same way as lets say communism or anything else like this however you bring in humanistic conceited ideologies & manipulate the initial concept to suite you have nothing like what it was initially intended to be. We are but mere humans after all, well I am anyway.

    Love
    Mathew
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      May 10 2013: G’day Chris

      Yes I would definitely agree that true spiritual growth begins with a psychological process however this is in contrary to what a lot of spiritual aware people believe as they denounce science altogether which includes psychology, I’ve been on a number of spiritual forums to know this.

      Judgment is judgment no matter how you want to put it & going by your last remark in your reply you also judge which is an obvious contradiction to your ideological beliefs to not judge. Did you not judge me & say that “it's people like yourself who take pride in "causing trouble" and attempt to belittle that which they clearly fail to understand”, you judged me as a trouble maker obviously in a destructive way not a constructive way, that doesn’t sound too spiritual to me which is a contradiction to your own beliefs.

      Any judgment of yourself or anyone else is conflictive no matter how you want to put it, a true spiritualist has no judgment therefore no conflict but I find a lot of new age people do have conflicts which of course I’m one of them as you have indicated here.

      I’m also a spiritually aware person but I find a lot of new age spirituality quite contradictory & even scary at times. Let’s take a look at meditation, scientists have proven we still think while meditating but spiritualists of all kinds say out right they don’t, what I can say, you must move with the flow not against it or in opposition.

      Love
      Mathew
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          May 10 2013: G’day Chris

          You are misjudging me again, I don’t have any ideological belief that judgment is bad. I judge & I can be egotistical but unlike some spiritually aware people I don’t have a problem with this & turn it into yet another so called negative which is conflictive & we need more of that in the world don’t we?

          So your judging here that I’m judging but you’re not of course, you don’t think this sounds a little weird & contradictory?

          You are obviously conflictive with trouble but I don’t have a problem with it, see what I mean about spiritually aware people causing more conflicts than needed. Trouble can be constructive as in debates like this one or if a wrong is being done like a child being raped I’m going to cause trouble & intervene. See how I don’t have a problem with trouble but you do, so who is more spiritually aware & accepting here? But of course you are which is of the ego.

          You’re obviously sitting in judgment of me which is no different to…but of course you’re not judging me so how can I say that, look again ignorance isn’t bliss!!

          Chris, I’m into acceptance of all for what it is, a vibrative energy form of one kind or another & I don’t, like so many other spiritually aware people, have a problem with certain negative words or actions, all they are to me is a difference however if that difference is harmful in any way to my own being I must react in some way to rectify the harmful affect upon myself. I’ve been on a number of spiritual forum sites that talk about love this that & the other but when it came down to the crunch they failed dismally. Sorry I don’t have much respect for falsehoods which this new age spiritualty seems to be breeding, give me the real stuff any day.

          Love
          Mathew
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          May 10 2013: G'day Chris

          I wish new age spiritualists would use a different line now & again when someone disagrees or questions their belief systems, you have no idea how many times I’ve heard this line before in reply, if you wish to believe I’m egotistical & judgemental & you’re not within your replies fair enough but I’m not that gullible.

          Look Chris, I’m not saying new age spiritualism is bad it just has contradictory concepts that really need to be addressed if new age spiritualists want the rest of the world to follow suite, the similarities of new age spiritualism to the dark age spiritualism is awfully close but of course that’s just my opinion not yours obviously. When one looks from the outside in as I am doing one can always see more than looking from the inside out, I see a problem.

          Love
          Mathew
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    May 10 2013: Huh?

    I find the interesting interested thing more useful.
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      May 10 2013: G'day Pat

      Don't get me wrong Pat scientists have proven that certain ritualistic practices can be quite psychologically beneficial so spirituality as a whole has a place in our society as long as it's not contradictory.

      Love
      Mathew