- SANTHIP KANHOLY
- Blacksburg, VA
- United States
Graduate Research Assistant, Virginia Tech : Aerospace & Ocean Engineering
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Neuroscientific studies of Enlightened human beings
Enlightenment is an actual experience which changes the perspective and perception of the individual, which has been touted in all the ancient religious scriptures spanning all global cultures. Buddha is considered to be enlightened. So is Jesus. Thus all major religions have sprung from individuals who have experienced enlightenment.
There are individuals right now on the planet, who have experienced Enlightenment as well. There are many teachers who spread the non-dual philosophy, and are engaged in traditions which help guide individuals towards their own personal experience of enligthenment. These teachers have a radically different perception about the world, as in they do not see any separation between anything at all, to the extent that they do not have identify with an external ego/ personality but identify themselves as the silent awareness within the consciousness.
My core idea is to study brains of such individuals so as to learn how different their brain is from ours, and the reasons for the difference. These individuals have numerous students who would like to attain the same consciousness state as they have. Hence it would provide additional insights to the students as to how they could be open to enligthenment. I believe such a study would bring the debate between science and religion to a close once and for all.
I know atleast 5 individuals who have experienced enlightenment, and who would be open to such a study. If you have any further idea/ suggestion or if you are interested in participating or even conducting this study please email me.
natasha nikulina 30+
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Debra Smith 100+
It would be great to know whether 'enlightenment' was a visible and measureable construct.
SANTHIP KANHOLY
The original idea I had in mind was a fMRI type study. I would love to see this happen. I would also love to see a biofeedback / brain wave type of study on these individuals also. It seems that enlightened individuals possess the same state of consciousness even when they are asleep. So theoretically they should be showing the sleep / delta brain waves even while they are awake or in their wakeful state as well. But yes, I believe its time for science to study the consciousness of these individuals to resolve the science vs religion debate once and for all. :-)
If you do come across researchers who would be interested in this topic do shoot me an email.
Mark Meijer 100+
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Mark Meijer 100+
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Mark Meijer 100+
Google Tech Talks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XCWP4pODbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky7vMFB4iAs
Youtube channels:
http://www.youtube.com/user/expandcontract
http://www.youtube.com/user/ShinzenInterviews
Interview about enlightenment:
http://harprakashkhalsa.wordpress.com/on-enlightenment-an-interview-with-shinzen-young/
"The Science of Enlightenment" set of audio recordings:
http://www.soundstrue.com/shop/The-Science-of-Enlightenment/474.productdetails
His present teacher:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshu_Sasaki
And of course his own websites:
http://www.shinzen.org/
http://www.basicmindfulness.org/
Shameless plug I know :P. I'm in no way affiliated with him, but he's just one of the many people that have had an invaluable impact on me in this regard, and this conversation (and your profile) looks like you might be interested in his work.
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Vipassana is a very useful technique. But enlightenment happens after the total annihilation of the subject object paradigm. :)
Mark Meijer 100+
I agree. The way I see it, there can be many different factors responsible for someone getting that realization, but there is no reliable way to know for any individual case what would make that happen. So in that sense it can be seen as an unpredictable act of grace/nature.
But as I've come to understand meditation (in no small part thanks to Shinzen), it is meant to hone a certain skillset that makes one more receptive to fundamental insights, through a calm balanced mind and clear perception. So that would be setting the stage for nature/grace to do the rest, as well as to deepen the realization in all its implications through continued cultivation. It all comes down to upaya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upaya
Vipassana is just one style of meditation (which itself actually consists of several lineages which each emphasize different techniques). But it happens to be very systematic, and therefore well suited for investigation in a scientific context. Apart from that, different people connect better with different approaches, so even disregarding the scientific interest, some people might be more at home with vipassana while others might be more at home with zen, for example.
And as mentioned, Shinzen's conceptual framework and techniques are primarily based on Theravada-style mindfulness practice, but his own teacher for example is a zen master (which is associated with Mahayana), and he was originally ordained in a japanese variant of Vajrayana (of which Tibetan buddhism is another variant), where his practice was more like tantric/diety yoga.
So I think he is very well able to see outside the confines of any particular tradition, buddhist or otherwise (as is also evidenced by his "Science of Enlightenment" recordings), and his framework is meant to integrate the key aspects of a broad range of traditions into a single, flexible system.
SANTHIP KANHOLY
It is interesting information that you have shared about Shinzen. I must definitely look into him now and see if he would be open to such a study or not :-) I am not sure if he is enlightened though or in the path though .. Seems like he should be enlightened...
My teacher is Guru Swami G ( www.guruswamig.com ). The path she has to offer is based on the path of Kundalini. ( That is another aspect I would definitely love to look into in the future - effects of kundalini on consciousness i.e ) There have been many students who have experienced profound shifts in her physical presence . They were of course open to the transmission from her .. The path which she has to offer involves direct one-to-one guidane, and thus has a vajrayana element to it.. Her methodology has evolved to a more "online ashram" methodology, where there is no physical ashram, and she skypes with her students to see their progress ... And I have found that having access to an enlightened teacher tremendously increases progresses by making your blind spots more clearer ;-) I consider myself highly fortunate to have access to such a teacher as well..
She has guided a handful of her students to the direct experience of enlightenment .. She would be open to any such scientific study that can be done on her .. I am sure there would be other enlightened beings who would also be open to such a study though :) Should also look into Shinzen Young..
Mark Meijer 100+
Meditation & Science (7 parts):
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUmev25pbwc
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RniZQ1l4ZC4
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcCh2S_VZaQ
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5E8kkhfWBQ
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwPsLoI48jM
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPFCKREqbUM
Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecAw6bZN6bg
Mark Meijer 100+
http://www.ted.com/conversations/670/what_is_the_nature_of_consciou.html?c=208025
I'm convinced that he is highly enlightened, in the sense that you've been talking about enlightenment. But certainly do check out those links and make up your own mind.
What you talk about is already a rather advanced state. But in my first post above is a link with an interview about enlightenment (combination of text and embedded videos), and there Shinzen talks about the initial stage of the classical definition of buddhist enlightenment, which is called "stream-entry".
As a stream-enterer you don't yet abide in non-dual awareness. You've only just begun to see through the nature of duality and your own prison. You're still routinely caught up in it, but you've irrevocably come to see it for what it is, in yourself as well as in others. And this already starts to bring a sense of compassion, as opposed to judgement or ridicule, because you recognize how people (including yourself, often still) are walking around and thinking and behaving from this "me" that we're trapped in (though not always, but they aren't aware of those moments and you won't be able to make them see it). Chances are that many people here have already achieved these fundamental insights, including you and Natasha.
This is the gradual approach of mindfulness training, rather than the more sudden approach of zen for example. In the end it's all about the exact same enlightenment, just the path towards it can be very different. And the value I see in pointing out this initial stage as Shinzen explains it, is to allow more people to recognize not only the reality of enlightenment, but also the significance of the state of mind that they may have already achieved. Because it's easy to put that aside as not so fundamental, if nobody ever showed you why it is (yes Chris Gardiner you too).
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Yes.. the path to enlightenment is very different.. However the ultimate end of all paths would be the end of the "me" . No amount of insights altong the way can compare to that ultimate truth ... That is the sad truth for many along the path .. including myself :)
Once again, thank for elaborating on the path of mindfullness :)
Mark Meijer 100+
The state of non-dual awareness is a very significant milestone, but it's not the only one. Also, when taking the gradual approach, it's not even a milestone in the sense that you don't have it one day and suddenly you have it the next day. At first it takes a long meditation sit before you can enter that state, and when you get up, it's gone. Then as you continue your practice, you'll be able to maintain it during simple activities, then regular and then complex activities, and finally you'll be able to maintain it without effort (Shinzen calls this a figure/ground reversal in his google tech talk). But this can be a very very gradual process, and again it continues to deepen throughout the rest of your life.
So in many cases there is not such a clear line that indicates when you're considered to be "enlightened", again depending on the definition. Actually there was the historical age of enlightenment in the west a couple of centuries ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment ), where people are said to have changed from superstition to emperical and rational thought. This may not appear to have anything to do with what is called spiritual enlightenment, but actually I think it is somewhat parallel, albeit at a superficial level (though not insignificant). Arguably, it may even be a prerequisite for spiritual enlightenment, because you can't get closer to seeing the nature of reality unless you drop superstition.
Javed Imthiaz
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Chandrakanth Natekar
Everything that you are searching for, will be revealed to you on the day when the money stops its journey. Already, all over the world this change has begun. Brainwaves are deeply integrated with the electromagnetic circuitry of the universe that moves in a definite direction with a definite plan. Indeed, the enlightenment is very small thing in this big journey where most of the enlightened minds also represents nothing but the heavenly desire which cannot understand the cosmic secret associated with the flow of time, the Kala-Gnana. The scientific waves of the brain is sub-merged with the collective unconsciousness of the cosmic universe which is spiritually getting ready to sweep human psyche immediately after the final collapse of the international monitory system. Indeed, most of the true spiritual minds of history (not all) realized that only the death of money could become the beginning of character and they have given enough precaution about this great day of judgment.
"The love of money is the root of all evil" - The Bible
SANTHIP KANHOLY
However, I am not an economist, and cannot possibly make an informed opinion on your ideas on a money-less economy, nor can I claim any validity in what you have stated about the economics of such a scenario.
I would not overtly prioritize on the demolition of money (which is nothing more than economic convenience) over true and pure scientific reason. I believe true scientific enquiry and reasoning should be independent of money, and should be able to stand on its own independently. The idea that I propose above, I believe would be such an idea in my opinion.
Enlightenment, even if you claim it to be a small thing, is touted in all the scriptures as the highest state that can be attained by any individual in spiritual traditions all around the world, and I believe it deserves some true scientific investigation so as to progress neuroscience.
Amit Sawhney
Just register for a course at a center near to you. http://www.dhamma.org/en/bycountry/na/
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Vipassana is useful to a point .. but ultimately surrendering into the face of death is something only an enlightened teacher can point one towards it .. It would be really difficult for an individual to do it on its own without the guidance of one who has walked the path before... Can point out the reference of Tripura Rahasya, and Vivek Chudamani for it ...
Eduardo Schenberg 30+
SANTHIP KANHOLY
LIke you have said, I believe there needs to be more initiatives in this direction. As this would be extremely helpful for many spiritual aspirants. I am extremely interested in understanding the effects of Kundalini on consciousness as a result of such a study, as there are more individuals who end up with awakened kundalini because of incorrect guidance for their spiritual practice, and such a state of kundalini is associated with progressing towards enlightenment.
Raheel Lakhani
SANTHIP KANHOLY
Raheel Lakhani
Linda Stone 200+
SANTHIP KANHOLY
I have been trying to talk with scientists and trying to get attention of neuroscientists for this study. It is indeed a big challenge for them to study, or to measure the vastness of scientificially awareness claimed by the enlightened individuals. I have also been talking with couple of scientists such as Dr. Dani Bassett ( physics post -doc engaged in brain study for I/P ), Dr. Bill Tiller ( of TIller foundation ), and have exchanged emails with Susan Smalley ( UCLA prof scientist ). I have also talked with Dr. Montague, ( neuroscientist at Virginia Tech ).who talked about fMRi usage to study blood flow in brain's active regions.
Dr. Bassett says that for any such study to be statistically relevant, there needs to be atleast 20 individuals in the sample. Dr. Smalley is of the opinion that studies of mindfullness meditators point to physical residue of meditation. So my extended reasoning is that the physical residue of an enlightened individual should be very strong and clearly evident.
I hope some people from the Institute Of Noetic Sciences could be interested in doing it, as they do some research which is parallel to these ideas.. But I have no internal contact there.
I am trying to contact neuroscientists who would be interested in tackling such a problem. If you do know anyone who would be interested, please do let me know Linda :) I hope I am able to find some neuroscientist who would be upto this challenge, and would be interested in pursuing a fMRi study of the brain of these individuals, or atleast EEG studies.
If I don't find anyone, then my plan is to invest in the e-motive headset shown in Tan-Le's video, and then conduct my own research based on EEG studies using the headset :) But I do hope to find some researchers.
Chris Gardiner
When I discovered Father Christmas was not true I became enlightened.
When I discovered Jesus Christ was not any more God incarnate than anyone else I became enlightened.
When I discovered that culture was more important in governing my destiny than reason I became enlightened.
Just as i do not go round telling children that Father Christmas does not exist I also still go to church and do not tell people that praying is a waste of time.
Father christmas is a very healthy way for children to learn the value of giving and recieving.
God and Jesus Christ are very powerfull tools for making life meaningfull.
Children only give up believing in Jesus when they want to.
Adults are afraid of dying and rather than admit that it will happen they convince themselves about the supernatural.
A human being consists of millions of living cells that have come and gone since the individual was born.
therefore the living person has forgotten half of the events of his or her life.
So an old man has lost touch with his childhood just as he has lost touch with his parents and grandparents.
Many people in old age are getting tired of life. Just as a person gets tired of a day and goes to sleep so an old person can get tired of living and just fade away.
So enlightenment is merely a matter of letting go of the cultural props that are no longer needed to make life bearable..
SANTHIP KANHOLY
The enlightened individuals whom I refer to in my idea, " do not think ". They do not use thoughts as we do in our daily lives. Whatever you said above can be reduced to thoughts within awareness. Truly enlightened people are thus free of thoughts, and it is my contention that their brain and consciousness is priceless for neuroscience to study.
Comment deleted
SANTHIP KANHOLY
No one is accepting the idea of enlightenment here on faith. I find the brains of such individuals worthy enough to be studied. And let's be honest about how much neuroscience has to go before a solid theory about consciousenss can be put forth. Hence my idea would further the science a little more by studying what can be considered to be anomalous individuals, rather than using a narrow-pointed term such as delusional.
Life has survived with or without mind. Hence your argument that mind is a primary tool for survival needs more solid evidence, rather than evidence which "appears" to be so.
No one is using "faith" here. Perhaps that is your personal projection to certain religions. That doesn't deal with the fact that such individuals who have a constant meditative state of mind exists. I say, use them to progress science.
Mark Meijer 100+
Although it depends of course on your definition of enlightenment ;)
SANTHIP KANHOLY
I agree with your second point that neuroscience can learn from advanced meditators. And my reasoning is along those lines. All advanced meditators meditate to experience enlightenment and total dissolution of the ego. My thesis is that neuroscience could benefit greatly by studying the brain of enlightened individuals.
Ignas Rubikas 50+
Another thing is that it will be long before neuroscience could possibly benefit somehow the meditative practices, although the reverse is not true - there are numerous benefits that study of meditators provide to the understanding of human brain.