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thetisd theoktisti

Assistant Accountant, Cegedim Relationship Management

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Could we really bear to forgive?

Concerned about how many mistakes we have made. Some of them might had an great impact or influence in somebody's life , yet we might had been influenced by our mistakes. How the situations are after one had made a great mistake such as betrayal? Do we have the power of forgiveness? The real forgiveness , that forgiveness which you are really able to forgive and forget...to continue in that same life situation with the same feelings for that person as there were before..
On the other hand when we do make mistakes, do we really bear to look other eye by eye? ...to look him in that way that we would be able to continue our lives with him as there were before...
In both occasions..do we just pretend to?
Honestly..what forgiveness is..I
Is it a feeling that we can handle of it ? or Is it a power of an upper God?

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    R H 20+

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    May 7 2013: Absolutely we must forgive. If we do not forgive, who carries the pain? We do. The pain is often too much to bear, and can destroy us, turn us cynical, withdrawn, or destructive - that alone is sufficient to forgive. But on the other hand, have you ever wished to be forgiven by someone (I'm sure your have)? How do you feel about the other person if they have forgiven you - truly forgiven, not just lip-service - and embraced you and cried with you and asked for your forgiveness for being so angry? If we do not forgive, what is the result? We want to change the world, but not forgive. We want to remember and carry the anger, the disappointment, the horrors, under the guise that we should not forget and 'know', and so it doesn't happen again. But what do we breed in that? Fear, anger, suspicion, condemnation (notwithstanding the ill and sociopathic). Let the historians record so we can reference our past when needed, but let's regard each other as we would want to be regarded ourselves, knowing how hard we try, how often we, either directly or indirectly, cause pain. Will we be hurt again? Will we be disappointed? Yes on both accounts. But what does it matter? We are our own destiny, so choose to forgive, and do not give life to the agonies and horrors and foolishness of others - or our own, but give life to peace, excellence, patience, conversion, growth - forgiveness. As the saying goes: We need to become the change we want to see in the world. For me, it starts with forgiveness, and it's not easy. Think of it another way, who profits from our anger with each other, our hatred, our self-righteousness, our division? Who profits from support of our 'security' and 'safety'? And how big are those profits? Now, how do we profit from peace and harmony?
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      May 7 2013: Hi RH thanks for your replying,
      I am stunned by the way that you approach the subject..A deeper point of view..I totally agree that the pain is more unbearable when you do not forgive , it ruins any piece of your humanity.. I ll bear in my mind your thoughts!
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        R H 20+

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        May 8 2013: Thank you, thetisd, for your kindness. You have already forgiven for forgiving me my brashness and pomposity, and returning it with kindness. I've said nothing new. We've heard it all since the ancients, yet continue to allow our pain and fear to subdue us, keeping us from transforming into the magnificent beings we ascribe to be. Abraham Lincoln is credited with saying: "Am I not defeating my enemies by making friends of them?" May it begin with forgiveness.
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          May 9 2013: RH,
          :) No, you used very strict words for yourself..I would say that you were spoken passionately. When we believe that something is absolutely true we indulge in our feelings...
    • May 8 2013: Extremely well said, R H.
      "We need to become the change we want to see in the world. For me, it starts with forgiveness, and it's not easy. "
      Absolutely!
      Respect means being able to view things from another perspective, it requires empathy, it doesn't mean we have to all love one another, but it can only exist when we truly love ourselves.
      Could there ever be unconditional respect for one another?
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        R H 20+

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        May 8 2013: Thanks Lizanne. In response to your question, there has to be. But I believe it must go beyond respect (and I assume you mean 'one's right to be who they are', notwithstanding the ill and sociopathic who need help). In my opinion, we must celebrate,seek out, and highlight the gifts, skills, talents, attributes we all 'bring to the table', rather than accentuate with ridicule our differences as how much they interfere with what we're trying to accomplish, how it would be 'so much easier' if we were all the same and so forth. This, of course, relates to so many others discussions we approach here at TED on how we regard one another. You hit the nail on the head. Love ourselves. If we can do that, we really have something to offer - in my opinion. Thanks again.
        • May 8 2013: The gratitude is very much requited, R H!
          This discussion, and indeed any other here on TED, is all about learning from each other and building awareness. Change is happening as we speak!
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        R H 20+

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        May 8 2013: Your mouth to God's ears.
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        May 8 2013: Lizanne and R H,
        I agree that if we love ourselves (respect, compassion, empathy, kindness), then we really have something to offer. We cannot give to others, somethiing we do not have in, and for ourselves.

        You ask..."Could there ever be unconditional respect for one another?"

        In my humble perception.....yes! It is a choice, and one thing that helps make that choice, is seperating the person from the behavior. My mom always used to say about my abusive, violent father...."love the man, hate the behavior".

        When we can observe the situation with compassion (view things from another perspective, as you say Lizanne), there is an opportunity to let go of our own fear and insecurity, and see/feel the fear and insecurity in others, which often contributes to behaviors.
        • May 9 2013: Compassion and empathy - extremely valuable traits we all possess and need to 'exercise'!!!

          I learned an important lesson recently - or rather, my children taught me an important lesson recently.

          My daughter's feelings were hurt at school. She cried, because someone laughed at her. It broke my heart, I was about ready to call that other little girl's mother, but realized - this is something she has to experience. I hugged her hard, and let her cry it out.
          Not long after, my son Bram experienced the same thing. Two little boys were purposefully shutting him out at recess, his heart was broken. My daughter saw this, recognized it, and immediately went to comfort him.

          By allowing her to explore this negative emotion, as unpleasant and difficult as it was, she was able to know it, and consequently recognize it in someone else! Empathy was born.
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          R H 20+

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          May 10 2013: Hi Colleen. I'm glad you brought that up - "love the man, hate the behavior." I've seen it referred to a number of times in this stream. I really struggle with it. I find it hard to separate the two. I will try to think of it more deeply. Thnx.
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        May 9 2013: AWWWWW yes! Children can teach us SOOOO much! We need to pay attention to them more often....nice experience:>)
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      May 8 2013: I like this thread. Peace, Love, harmony and Zen. And you guys really mean it. That makes me happy. This is nice.
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      May 10 2013: R H,
      This is a response to your comment, which I could not reply directly to....

      "10 minutes ago: Hi Colleen. I'm glad you brought that up - "love the man, hate the behavior." I've seen it referred to a number of times in this stream. I really struggle with it. I find it hard to separate the two. I will try to think of it more deeply. Thnx."

      Here is an idea if you choose to consider it. We do not know the battles a person is waging in him/herself....we don't always know exactly what causes behaviors.....for example......

      When I volunteered with the dept. of corrections, one of the guys I dealt with was a criminal...he was angry....agressive....tough guy....nobody was EVER going to push him around....that was the behavior he adopted. Why? When looking at his file, I discovered that he had been sexually assaulted by members of his family starting at the age of 2 years old. Can you imagine? Can you put yourself in his shoes? As a teen, he was taken from his biological family (FINALLY!!!) and placed in many foster homes, where he continued to be disruptive, angry and agressive. He hooked up with a bunch of angry, abusive, agressive people, and his life of crime began.

      Another example is a teen who came into the woman's shelter where I volunteered. She was very angry, abusive and violent.......and......pregnant for the 3rd time by her father. She had also been used (tortured) by her parents and their friends for satonic rituals.

      There are a LOT of very wounded people in our world, carrying a LOT of anger and hurt thoughout their lives. It does not justify their behaviors, but it may, if we think about it and genuinely feel it, have compassion and empathy for and with them, it may help seperate the person from the behavior in our minds and hearts?
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        R H 20+

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        May 10 2013: So true. Please respond to discussions/town halls regarding gov't student test scores. You have much to offer.
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      May 11 2013: Thanks R H:>)
      Can you provide a link for the discussion you would like me to respond to? I will check it out and see if there is anything I can contribute.

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