TED Conversations

Singer Songwriter & Vocal Coach, Lizanne Hennessey - Voice Coach


This conversation is closed.

Integrating music into our everyday lives.

My idea is all about making music and singing as a tool to set a positive cycle in motion that will encourage respect, communication and expression, which to me, are key ingredients to a society of individuals who can truly change the world.

No, this is not a new idea - but I think it's something we forgot how to do, and I want to help us remember.

I made a video to explain how we can reap the benefits of integrating music into our everyday lives called "Growing Back into Music", which you can watch here:

I'm so curious what you all think!


Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.

  • thumb
    May 6 2013: Hi Lizanne,

    I agree in a big way!

    Many thanks for your insights - your video has been helpful with my own perception of this subject.

    I am reminded of Julie Fowlis and her work recovering the old Waulking songs of the flax workers.

    The last 8 years my life have been dedicated to promoting the pennywhistle as a cultural instrument - a way back into our musical hearts. It is cheap and no one expects master-class performance on it (although some become masters).
    It does not become a platform for "the music industry" as the guitar did, and it is not recognised as an orchestral instrument - and so escapes academic isolation from the people. Others are doing similar work with the ukulele, harmonica, concertina etc. Small easy methods of expressing music regardless of how well one can sing.
    But, of course, singing is the root of music along with dance.

    You correctly identify the isolation of the community from its song. This seems to me a part of the process of exclusion that is practiced by those seeking disproportionate wealth and status. We see it in every aspect of our lives.

    It is plain, that music is part of the "totem" of community identity .. when we sing together we subconsciously accept the community of the singers - it binds us.

    My experience down the years is that musical ability is innate, but will atrophy if there is no exposure in early childhood. This atrophy manifests as "tone deafness" and results in someone who believes they cannot sing. It is a kind of poverty. Surrounding our children with music and song enhances the health of the family and community.

    It is a travesty that we are made to pay for something we already own. The argument of excellence and mastery is always rolled out to overcome the truth. For those who accept that lie, I would suggest they get involved in an Irish music session, learn some of the traditional tunes and participate. When you do that, you can see plainly that there is no "audience" - just togetherness.
    • thumb
      May 6 2013: Mitch, I enjoyed reading your opinion about this idea and I am glad I did it.
      Your answer was very well argumented and it made me think about other ideas and made me make more connections.
      I also consider playing an instrument, weather at a beginner lever or at an expert level, is very useful for human development and growth. Too bad the society is not supporting this behavior and act.
      I also consider, as you and Lizanne did, that it's not necessarily about the talent, but about expressing your emotions and your inner feelings through music.
      • May 6 2013: Thank you so much, Bogdan!!
      • thumb
        May 7 2013: Hi Bogdan,

        This notion of "talent" is over-blown.
        It is not necessarily "born-into" people.
        From my experience it mostly flows from the reality experienced in early childhood.
        There may be an inherited component - but that would amount to the cumulative adaptation of a community with music. Talent is the default - not having talent indicates a poverty of community.

        Wherever you are on this planet, you will find some group of musicians maintaining your cultural musical tradition. They are often "invisible" to the those who walk modern lifestyles, but they are not hiding - If you look for them you will find them - and they will be more than happy to help you develop any skills, either in song or instrument. Folk festivals are a good place to start the search.
        It's well worth the journey.
        • May 7 2013: Hey Mitch, oops - I missed this comment of yours!
          I agree, 'talent' is something not everyone possesses. What a world this would be, if we were all possessed natural-born talent!
          Talent is aptitude, and when stimulated in a positive way, can become a skill, and even a profession.
          What I believe, is that we all possess the gift of music and singing, regardless of the level of execution.
    • May 6 2013: Thank you so much for your thoughts, Mitch! I wholeheartedly agree with what you said, that "It is a travesty that we are made to pay for something we already own". We all posses a 'toolbox' of music that we have with us at all times, and can utilize at all times, whenever and wherever we may find ourselves! It's a question of stimulating it and teaching kids to utilize it, not just as children but for the rest of their lives.

      On a side note, I too am an avid pennywhistle lover. My Irish heritage played a strong role in my upbringing, we had a basket of pennywhistles in every key that was within easy reach and played with fervor at any given moment. I have followed that tradition in my home - it's the instrument my kids' friends always reach for first when they come over to play!
      Thank you for passing on your passion for this wonderfully accessible and traditional instrument!
      • thumb
        May 7 2013: Hi Lizanne,

        There is something that awakens when one fully integrates music into one's life.
        To start with, one starts being more than one.
        Practice of music enhances every other aspect of life. It integrates mind, "spirit" and body and sharpens awareness.
        Then a journey begins.

        It is not by accident that musicians often recognise the dynamics of social capital and turn their backs on commercial intellectual property. Copyright-seeking "performers" are not musicians in my book - having been such a copyright seeker at one time, I am glad to have escaped it.
        There are still places for excellence - excellence as a personal goal seems to come as a side-effect of the love of music, but the instant wealth or fame becomes the goal, music departs.
        At one time I played pop music. The people in that field were often rather nasty. The people I find in the folk music community are not like that - they are humble, open and inclusive, and in my opinion, better musicians than those you find in the "music industry".

        If everyone were to find their voice in music and simple community, all would recognise the perversion of modern economic and political doctrines.
        These are large claims - but seem obvious from my standpoint. Without observing true community dynamics first hand, one would not be able to understand this.
        I promote traditional music - it is not just a whimsy - it is the spine of folk-tradition that maintains the ancient flow of human wisdom. Once you "get it" it all becomes clear.
        • May 7 2013: Hi Mitch!
          Yup, I've been in that boat too!

          I agree with you about traditional and folk music, the fact that it is so deep-rooted and so connected with humanity and culture is reason enough to promote it!

          Personally, I can't place one genre over another. There is popular music that rubs me the wrong way, and pop music that inspires me. I think exposure to all genres is important in understanding and appreciating music in its entirety.
          Taste, however, is up to each individual, and indisputable!
      • thumb
        May 7 2013: Yes .. there's "stuff" and "stuff" ..

        It all looks the same till you taste it .. I mean really taste it ..

        Commitment ..

        I have this total image of the "work of your life" ..

        If you never found it .. you would have no idea what I just said.

        So our work starts with making little doors - we all love each other .. and any door we can make .. any little window that light can get through .. that is our work. It is only through these tiny stupid little doors that take a whole lifetime to open, that we can actually love each other.

        That is worth spending a life to do.

        I salute you for the door you have opened. Those who come through it will realise how well you have done. .. for the rest .. let's see how many we can get through?
      • thumb
        May 7 2013: A story:

        Before Christmas, I got a note from an old flute-maker.
        He asked me about my "waiting list" and honestly revealed that the cancer that was killing him prevented him from playing his own flutes at his favourite session .. and please, could he have a whistle - it takes less breath.
        So I dropped everything, took the best bit of wood I had, and the best metal and spent a whole week honouring his need.
        I got an email from his widow last week .. he has passed, and the whistle was given to his grandson - who played it at his funeral.
        I Replied my condolences, and hopes for the new life.

        Blue mixes with yellow .. and life is composed of all colours.
        • May 7 2013: Wow, this story gives me goosebumps. How truly generous of you, and how wonderful you understood the urgency and the need for this man's desire to make music!!
      • thumb
        May 8 2013: It wasn't his desire that moved me - it was his reality. And his honesty.

        Up above all the rubbish we have to do to get through the morass of mistaken humans and their short-sighted imperatives and lies, opinions and illusions .. there is the truth.

        You know you have truth when you are part of these stories.

        I am in denial that all humans cannot tell these stories - we all can .. why aren't we?

        To me .. that is important.

        And look - science proves beyond any controvercy - talent is available to all - it's simple brain plasticity - the older you get, the longer it takes .. there is no limit.
        But having exposure in early childhood puts you ahead of the field.
        Ego makes up self-inflating stories - don't fool yourself.
    • thumb
      May 6 2013: In my son's public grade-school, they all played recorder in music class. And, of course, starting in pre-school, kids do lots of singing. It stops as a regular thing in secondary school, but it is easy to get secondary school students to sing together- solos harder. I think percussion instruments of all kinds are extremely inclusive as well.

      Later this month, I will be attending, as I have for the last twenty-five years, the largest free folk festival in the United States. There are 7000 registered performers, but all sorts of people will walk onto the grounds for four days with their own drums, fiddles, flutes, and washboards, guitars, didgeridoos... and position themselves wherever they please, alone or in the drum circle or on 'blue-grass hill"...

      I thought of you immediately, Mitch, when I noticed the first performer I will announce (I am an emcee of a couple of stages for three hours on two different days). He plays native american flute.
      • May 6 2013: Oh, the recorder... I personally have a love-hate relationship with it, partly because it was my first instrument and partly because of the shrill sound it makes, with so little space for dynamics!

        I think playing an instrument is an entirely different story - the benefits of which are also too many to list here! I think the beauty of this concept is that you already possess everything you need to make music: your body, and your voice. And you already possess everything you need to sing and make music about: your thoughts, emotions, questions, achievements...

        This festival sounds simply incredible, Fritzie.
        Who knows what inspiration will arise from a gathering of music enthusiasts of all walks of life!
        • thumb
          May 6 2013: I agree we come with a voice. But we can also make percussion instruments out of common objects all around us. And lots of kids, particularly boys, really connect to the active aspect of percussion.

          I sing all the time, with an average voice. But I treasure my melodic drum (I have forgotten to what key it is 'tuned."
      • May 6 2013: Absolutely, Fritzie!
        I put that part in the video about banging on the dinner table with your silverware for a reason!
        And similarly, a set of pots and pans and a wooden spoon make for a super drum kit.
        And, actually, who needs equipment at all when we've got our bodies ready to beat a rhythm on and with!

        I agree, there is something very primeval about beating out a rhythm, that plays as much a role in this concept as using our voices.

        Is there a certain key a melodic drum should be tuned to?
        • thumb
          May 6 2013: They are each built to a key. Some keys are preferable for novices, because all sorts of spontaneous combinations sound good. Other keys are better for people with more music experience.

          If you do a search, you will find sites that will let you hear the difference in the drums they make. I will not link one here, because these will be sites of little businesses.
      • May 6 2013: Interesting, Fritzie - I'll google it!
      • thumb
        May 7 2013: Hi Fritzie,

        If all goes to plan, I will try to get to that festival in a year or 2 .. along with the Willie Clancy fest in Ireland.
        Part of my journey has been the exploration of making the whistles. As an exercise in manufacture, the journey has lead me away from the common modern trade paradigm. The whistles became popular and my order book got up to 2 years long waiting time. 2 years is an insane time to wait for something - and there was no way to promise when, if ever, the order would be fulfilled. So I stopped taking orders and started accepting requests. Even this didn't work, so I closed my request book. When the book is cleared, I will make the whistles and take them to festivals for the players to discover. There is a specific magic that happens when the right player meets the right instrument. It has to be done in person, in the real world, and there is no formula to predict which player will "click" with which whistle .. the whistle might be a simple $5 tin whistle, or it might be one of the grand ones that take me days to make. There is no place for bald economics in music. We enjoy our wonderful technology - phones and internet and such, but the only way to be truly alive - is in-person.

        On the recorder: the recorder is a chromatic woodwind. The chromatic tradition is based on the even-temperament of the piano and has come to dominate western music.
        Real music is played in the just-temperament which has exact harmony where the even temperament does not. Even-temper is a compromise devised to standardise orchestral instruments for the purpose of playing 11 recognised keys. Real music is not compromised like that.
        The reason that recorder is taught in western schools is that, at one time, to qualify as a teacher, one had to have proficiency in an orchestral instrument.
        Educators are not always musicians, so the teachers would quickly learn recorder to get their qualification.
        If not for that, whistle would be taught in schools - it's more intuitive.
        • thumb
          May 7 2013: When you come to Folklife, I hope you will get in touch. I don't travel to it, as I live a few minutes from the festival grounds.

          Your description of the magic that happens when the right player meets the right instrument reminded me of the first of the Harry Potter books, The Sorcerer's Stone (or, in England, The Philosopher's Stone). In the wand shop when Harry is to purchase his wand, the proprietor explains that the wizard doesn't pick the wand. Rather the wand picks the wizard.

          Harry gives several a wave, with poor effects. Then he waves one that works as if it were made for him.
        • May 7 2013: Do you mean the Folklife Festival in Seattle??
      • thumb
        May 7 2013: Yes, it sounds trite, but it's true.

        At any given time there will be 10 to 20 "Olivanders" of the whistle on planet Earth.
        It is a protected branch of humanity due to the fact that there are not many pennies in a pennywhistle - because of this, there will never be enough master whistle makers - and because of that, there is no such thing as competition. We mostly know each other due to the internet and welcome new entrants - according to orthodox economics: the demand will always exceed the supply .. but the match of instrument to player is the true economy - it is well balanced in the real world.
    • thumb
      May 6 2013: It may be co-incidental but I am drawn to a musical instrument of my native Bengal as if it is a living being. It's an one string instrument that minstrels and wondering holy men play as accompaniment of their songs. It's called Ektara or Gopichand. Since Mitch mentioned ukulele, harmonica and concertina, I could not resist mentioning it.
      • May 6 2013: I'm familiar with the Ektara, Patibra - hauntingly beautiful, indeed!
        • thumb
          May 7 2013: Hi Lizanne,

          As a singer you will appreciate this:

          I am told that, to be an Indic traditional singer, one has to spend the first year or 2 finding one's personal note. After that is found, the raga are then permitted to be performed by the singer - and all the instruments (including the drums) must be tuned to the singer.
      • thumb
        May 7 2013: Hi Pabitra,

        The musical tradition in the sub continent is not properly understood in the west.

        The Indic musical tradition is fully integrated into all facets of life. It is not isolated to a theatrical stage or packaged as a commoditised "entertainment".

        Here's a little story: I set out to make a dedication whistle to honour some Mysorean rosewood that came out of India with the Raj. Based on the Mysore festival, I decided to call it "Durga".
        As part of the research, I was contacted by a North Indian fellow who explained the full meaning of the Durga festival, so I had to understand the legend and how it fit into the culture.
        My friend read to me the legend of Durga over the phone - he read it from an ancient Sanskrit book owned by his family - a tale that took 2 hours in the telling.
        From the legend I found I had to make 3 whistles in a set - Durga, Shiva and Mahishhah Durga and Shiva have their own raags, - and the whistles were tuned to play these raags. For Mahishhah, there is no raag, so I used the western diatonic scale to represent the Raj - but tuned it to the 22 note southern Indian tones. The final designs were executed in the Mysore rosewood by a flute-maker in Barrow-upon-Humber in England and sent to me.
        None of these whistles were sold - the spiritual thread of the instruments carried them away into the community - Shiva and Durga are presumably changing hands - into the hands which require them. Mahishhah remains with me - I keep him to remind me that heaven cannot be taken by force.
        What also remains with me is the grand integration of music and life - and the "magic" that happens when that integration is allowed to happen.
        • thumb
          May 7 2013: I liked your story, Mitch :) You will be happy to know that I come from a part of India where Durga festival, locally known as Durga Puja, is the mainstay of the culture. I am very happy to know that you are familiar with the legend of Durga, the motherhead of power and destroyer of evil.
          Interestingly, in the tradition of North Indian Classical music, there is raaga named Durga.

          I found it very interesting that Durga, the legend as you say, is identified with a raaga, not a raagini (a feminine form of movement as contrasted with a raaga), despite Durga is a mother deity.

          I also tend to think, when it's a legend, a musical movement and a cultural mixture - there is no better ground of integration one can imagine.

      • May 7 2013: Oh yes, I've heard that, Mitch!
        There are singing workshops that work with that premise too - people find their own note and wander around the room, keeping to their note, while listening to each other. I don't remember what it's called, but I have tried it and it is pretty incredible. But, finding your own note is not something that takes a matter of hours, but indeed, a matter of years.

        I really love what you wrote about "the grand integration of music and life - and the "magic" that happens when that integration is allowed to happen. " Here, here to that!
      • thumb
        May 8 2013: Pabitra,

        There are 22 prayers of overcoming that the Goddess Durga gives us as the defence to the violators of heaven.
        There are 22 exact tones in the southern Indic scales measured from the singer's note.
        There are many times of day that hold certain reality - we are there or we are in a no-place. And the song of our life is a symphony of journey in this universe.

        Durga is a goddess made up of all the most powerful parts of all the gods. She slew Hahishhah - the immortal of Brahma - using the discus of Shiva.

        The other part of Durga is Kali.

        I have met them both - and both of Shiva and both of Mahishhah.

        Here is the truth of gods:

        If you sacrifice to them them - they bless you - and show themselves to you.
        If you deny them - they bless you - and do not show themselves.
        If you do their work - they do not bless you. You become them.
        The blessing is not of you - it is of them - all that power! And none of it for you.

        So spoke Shiva and Durga to me.

        I am yet to explain why Brahma blessed Mahishhah and why it is permitted of the demon lord to take and to destroy. Is there no future in heaven?
        • thumb
          May 8 2013: I think you are referring to Mahishasura, the demon?
          I love Durga story, the legend as myth and do not deny that the spiritual message of awakening of power to fight against and win over 'evil's as found in the story is culturally profound. However, my appreciation ends there. It's a story, an interesting one, a large section of humanity attaches spiritual importance to it, that is awesome - but a story nonetheless. And there are several different versions of it , just like resurrection of Jesus Christ.
          I, by no means disrespect your sentiments and feelings about it, but I am on a different page, I guess :)
          "If you deny them - they bless you - and do not show themselves." True. I have never seen them.
          I can find out 21 of the stotram (prayer) for Durga.
          Am I missing something?
          Or may be we should discuss this somewhere else?

        • May 8 2013: Pabitra and Mitch, as far as I'm concerned, you guys are welcome to continue the discussion here - I think information from all possible musical genres and cultures is essential to learning more about how important music is!
        • thumb
          May 8 2013: Ok, I shall make an attempt. I am not a musician so my view may be non-conformist :)
          You said : integrating music into life : Growing back in Music. I see Om or Aum in Vedic tradition as the first syllable and note both. I don't know if any other ancient culture ever had a sound identified as the purest form of spirituality.
          And you may be interested in the oldest heard musical rendition in vedic chants.

          For at least 3000 years this is one unbroken tradition of worship where music and life merged with one another. I don't believe in a God but certainly believe in the strength of tradition.
        • May 9 2013: Pabitra, you say, "I am not a musician so my view may be non-conformist". Well neither am I! No one needs to be a musician to understand and appreciate the importance, and indeed tradition, of music.

          Those links you shared are truly fascinating - when I do vocal warming up with my students, we often begin with the sound 'om', I was aware that it had meaning, but I never knew about the deep-rooted significance of that sound!

          Chanting is another way of using our natural rhythmic and singing ability together, getting a message across as a whole, which would not exist without each individual. Very beautiful, and incredibly strong! Thanks!!
      • thumb
        May 9 2013: @Pabitra,

        I learned Mahish-hah - the son of Rambha lord of the demons.
        Mahish is the buffalo.
        In the old Sanskrit book Shyamala was not cursed to be a buffalo - she was just an attractive buffalo that Rambha desired to rape. The rape child was mahishhah.
        Rambha heard news of the child and was fearful that he would challenge him and had all the buffalos killed - the slaughter began and Shyamala went to Brahma for help - Brahma made Mahishhah immortal and thus he escaped the massacre - which took his mother.
        Mahishhah blamed the gods and in rage and revenge attacked heaven - and defeated the hosts of heaven.
        In their sanctuary, the great gods made a golem called Durga of the parts of the greatest gods armed with the most powerful weapons and mudras.
        Durga went to battle against the legions of Mahishhah before the doors of the sanctuary of heaven and in a 100 day battle finally cut Mahishhah's throat with the discus of shiva.
        Across India the story is told in different shades and names.
        This is the story told me from the old book - I cannot say the talk amongst the gods as it is a story that takes 2 hours to tell - and I would have to get it translated to me again. I preserved the story in whistles and they have the Sanskrit names engraved on them.
        When I delivered the work to this world, these gods came in the form of humans and blessed me.
        It takes courage to pronounce OM - and it takes courage to ask for the words of Om that are the words of your self - the secret words that none must know.
        You will see - the plastic wrapper being woven around your secret word. I would say .. cover yourself in buffalo turds and the plastic wrapper will dissolve.
        Who are the Brahman except you and I my friend?
        I am Shaman of the north - I bring news of the south.
        Time for courage.
        Time to be the Buddha.
        Time to enter into courage. And life.
        • thumb
          May 9 2013: Dear friend, Brahman is no God. it is a conceptual pinnacle of spirituality and detached from divinity. Brahman is the unchanging reality amidst and beyond the world, which cannot be exactly defined. I completely disagree with Radhakrishnan who described Brahman as the absolute Godhead which is the divine ground of all being in modern Hinduism.
          I am quite awed and humbled with the knowledge of humanity's spiritual journey and evolution from ancient times. The pillar of Hinduism, the first of the four canonical texts of Vedas, the Rigveda is a collection of hymns of a pastoral, nomadic people settling in an unknown territory and it is profound enough how they started to worship natural elements.

          When I was 11 years old, I was initiated into Brahminism through a ritual named 'Upanayana' (a second birth of a human into knowledge of self) where I was taught, as a fresh Brahmin, the Gayatri hymn, which was amongst the first musical/lyrical inspirations I got.
          I don't know how courageous I am, honestly. But with the story of life where I stand today, it appears to me that looking at life at it's face, asking questions and weighing answers on the razor's edge all the while when Gods allure one to stop and submit and get peace is no act of cowardice either.
      • thumb
        May 10 2013: No .. we cannot be gods.
        This much is clear.
        And, as in the prayers of the dead - to be properly human is to "not get stuck" by Shiva or Durga or Ganesh ro Jesu or Yaveh or Albert Einstein or the grunting fascination of lovers lost in each other.

        I have only windows into Hindi and Buddhist teaching through the teachings that were laid before me by .. I presume are gods ... I am of the simple shaman in tradition. That which is found, not taught. Compared to the Indic wisdom .. I'm like a wild dog. All I say is not any more than vomit.
        But as a wild dog I vomit and roll in corpses. It's not popular, but it makes me happy.

        The nice bit of carrot in this particular regurgitation is the way that the Indic music is not music as westerners see it .. except maybe the Irish .. it does not exist up on some vaunted stage above the commoners .. it is like blood .. it carries an essential fluid of life that will never stop .. we just sing - we are all dogs howling at moons and ambulances - birds in treetops singing "I am here".
        And it's fun to do that - we need no justification - and payment is only to parasites - they can be scraped off with a scaling knife when the itch gets too much.

        (Pentameter is fun to use I think,
        But haiku is best - it gives us 3 things to say, when we feel the urge)
        • thumb
          May 11 2013: I salute you the shaman of the North and call you a friend. :)
          With all my silliness, let me tell you that there is no East or West in the depth of a human soul. Over some great distance on earth you and I are tied to the same umbilical cord that is life. If you mass spectrograph our tears and track the muscle movements of our smiles - none can tell Mitch from Pabitra.
          I will never discard your wisdom as vomit.
          And we revere Irish connection here in Bengal through Margaret Noble.
          I hear what you say my friend.
      • thumb
        May 11 2013: HI Pabitra,

        Friend indeed!

        I am just a dog. Who needs more than that! I have learned a lot from dogs .. and cats .. and trees as well. In fact .. my "money" comes from trees right now . I am allowed to keep living because I know how to make a bit of tree become a bit of a human. .. I am a kind of tree/human match maker and arrange marriages between them through the ring of music.

        I mourn that so many of our brides are extinct .. The whistle that I made for the dead man was made of a wood extinct 100 years .. it is the true west indies cocus - long gone .. and the best flute-wood ever found. The Conquerors of South America did more than despoil the gold in their attack on heaven - they plundered the very skin and bones of the earth for the entertainment of dead children to have money that has long since expired from life - we call them "capitalists" and they have all been "amortised" .. made dead .. they are the zombies and exist in video-games - but some of us are allowed to see .. and in seeing, contain the map .. and nothing will be lost when we come home .. many years from now.
        Fun now .. or life. It's just entropy. No one is qualified to judge, because the court is life. And it never ends. Even having the arrogance to inflect entropy enough to allow our skin is bold and dangerous, but the rule of life is that we must. And I will not apologise for that :)

        I am joyful to find a friend!
      • thumb
        May 12 2013: Here is a gift.

        Here is another friend of ours who we have not met yet:

        I can see the waves that flow over us - it dictates what we talk about .. it's kinda silly when you watch it. You see the wave .. then everyone is talking about the wave .. very few talk about what the wave is saying - and no one talks about what makes the wave in the first place.
        Although quite a few have asked us to talk about it.
        If I could get anything done .. it would be to convince myself .. and everybody else the thing that cats and dogs and trees already know:
        Be still .. all is well.
        That is the only mantra worth chanting - or contemplating.

        I have a draft thesis that will remain in draft for all of time.
        If you would like, I can send it to you. It is not found in any university - except my life. And only my friends can have it.

Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.