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simone lizarraga

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Why do people just believe everything the meat and dairy industries tell them, why are people sheeple, and refuse to learn the truth?

Why do people refuse to look into their food choices, refuse to consider animal rights and refuse to accept information that can cure illness such as diabetes and oesteoporosis and cancer ? Do people care about future generations that will have no water if factory farming and dairy continue?

Topics: veganism
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    Apr 26 2013: Maybe we enjoy steak & chips and/or don't buy into the vegan propaganda.
    I have a waterbed 'cause it's really comfy; I eat apricot seeds 'cause I am persuaded it wards off cancer; I am installing a composting loo 'cause I can't get my septic tank to work. I've also got a Jag & a Harley & I do church three times a week. All these things are my personal choices, that's why life is so good. Perhaps you think my choices are dumb, but they were made after due consideration of the facts, not from shepherding from the media or anyone else.
    What's important to you just isn't important to me; simple as that.

    :-)
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      Apr 26 2013: Thanks for your reply, basically you're saying you only just care about yourself and your own choices, thanks for being so honest... I don't think your choices are dumb, just that it would be nice if more people could look into their food choices , and really know about the pain and suffering thats involved in meat production . Talk about "shepherding from media" - thats what all those Maccas, KFC and meat ads are - media shepherding - that's what made me decide to explore ( on my own initiative) into what is really happening with the Earth and the cause of Global warming and the woes of our times- after much reading, widely and by credible researchers, I discovered the production of meat was the biggest cause of pollution and poverty we have today, also illnesses of the West- as I mentioned in the question. Anyway good luck with the composting loo, sounds interesting . :D
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        Apr 27 2013: Just for the record, but off topic. I do care deeply for people. I believe in heaven & hell & do my utmost to persuade folks of the former. I also believe that history has all but run it's course. We can only concentrate our fire in one direction at a time, so, while I sympathise with you on the save the planet scenario, it must take second place to our eternal destination.
        Keep up the good work.
        PS my dad was a butcher; I've been in a slaughter house.

        :-)
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          Apr 27 2013: Thanks for your reply, tell us a bit of what it was like in the slaughter house - did you see the cows bellowing or distressed as they were led in? Were the other cows waiting reacting or hesitant to enter? What method did they use ? a bolt to the head? Did you see any cows that were slaughtered clumsily? I do feel that eating meat shall effect our eternal destination, but that is another can of worms- cellular memory, karma etc- I do like that you say you care deeply , its just that I care deeply for the animals as well as us - I view us all as Earthlings .... Hope the loo is going good!
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        Apr 28 2013: It was a long time ago, but I do remember that the cattle were stunned by electricity & dispatched with a captive bolt gun in the head. There was a lot of mooing going on, but there always is with cattle. They came into the killing pen one at a time; they were hesitant, as normal, but there was no panic like if they knew what was going on. The next in line couldn't see what was happening .
        Within minutes they were hoisted, gutted, & skinned. All very efficient. I wouldn't like to work there; the whole place smelled of death, those that did seemed happy enough. Years later I did frequent work in an automated fish food factory. It was rank as well, but you get used to it. My brother in law was paid £8000 to keep quiet about what he saw in a bread factory when he retired.
        At the end of the day the cattle wouldn't exist if we didn't need them for food. Maybe a short life & a happy one is the best they can expect.
        I don't buy into the whole evolution business, so have no issues about eating 'relatives'.
        The loo is somewhere in transit between Canada & here (Scotland). There's another issue for you. Millions of miles of pipes, pumps etc., just to get our poop away from our house & dumped in the sea, when it could be growing roses.

        :-)
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          Apr 29 2013: Hope your loo turns up soon- as for pollution , going vegan is going to help the planet a lot, also cattle really don't exist because they are needed for food- we create the large cattle population - because the meat industry wants to cash up... I want to share with you some info from " But you kill Ants" - its about an experience in the slaughter house , just so you can see why I get upset : Page 46 - Here's a slaughterhouse worker's account; "Cattle get their heads stuck under the gate guards, and the only way you can get it out is to cut their heads off while their alive. I've seen cows hit with whips, chains, hoes, shovels, boards. Anything they can use to move them.Seen them laid wide open across their nose and stuff...You can take an electric winch, latch it onto one of their legs- it's supposed to be a leg, and drag her all the way through the kill alley to the knocking box, If you couldn't get her leg, it would go around her neck, and by the time she gets up she's almost dead- its choking her. You're in such a hurry, and people get so mad at you if you don't get the job done on time , that your adrenaline is flowing and you don't care what you do. Why are we so violent to those who are so gentle? "He struggles upside down as he swings over the kill floor where men stand in gore with long knives slitting each steers throat and puncturing the jugular vein". If you can't get permission to watch this , might it be because a visit will destroy the image of the happy cow or pig frolicking in the yard, keen to become our dinner? We don't want to know what goes on in abbattoirs . It doesn't help enjoyment of the next meal. So conditioned are we to animal killing being normal that suffering goes on unrecognized. "
          If you go vegan , you will use your loo a lot more - plenty of plant fiber is a good thing ! lol
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    Apr 26 2013: Because some people may perceive that it is easier to be led and have decisions made for them, rather than be mindfully aware of information. These are the same folks who are often complaining about being controlled and having their rights and freedom of choice taken away from them. They are making their own choices NOT to be informed.
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      Apr 26 2013: Well said ! Thanks for your great response ! :D
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      Apr 26 2013: This raises the question of whether the word sheeple has become a popular label for people who do not see things the way the labeler thinks they should?
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        Apr 29 2013: I always assumed that was exactly what it meant.
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          Apr 29 2013: We agree then, Peter. But the connotation is that those who do not agree just do not think for themselves.
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      Apr 26 2013: Thanks for you resonse :D As for the water issue, I was referring to fresh water that can be used to drink- I am presuming your nation is surrounded by sea water? I have to confess I do not understand your Nations situation regarding your rivers and dykes- I am in Australia . Yes I agree with you , probably no one wants to live forever, especially if you are sick and have no quality of life, and yes it is a can of worms with the baby boomers becoming a burden. I guess I am thinking that we could create some kind of balance meaning if people ate a vegan diet, could avoid the usual Western world illnesses, get to enjoy better quality of life , long enough to complete all the things on their bucket list, and perhaps if you have seen "Futurama" when they have a "suicide booth" lol - I don't know a solution for this- but things can always be improved upon - get better if we put our minds to it... Did you know cheese had a kind of morphine in it that acted to keep the calf with its Mother- ? thats why its so addictive - Tryptophan I think its called, took me 5 years to kick it-I have learnt dairy is cruel, the cows are constantly hooked up to painful milking machines that cause mastitis- they are artificially inseminated so they lactate to make milk , the by - products are their calves , they are treated terribly- either shot a few days after birth and sold as dog food, or kept in tiny veal crates and slaughtered. There is blood and pus in milk, called casein- milk has been linked to breast cancer and oesteoporosis- and other cancers- I hope we do run out of cows to eat- because the human anatomy is proof that humans werent made to eat meat- we are herbivores, check it out http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html The term I used 'sheeple" - was a tongue in cheek way of describing the majortiy of people who blindly follow without questioning...
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          Apr 27 2013: I didn't know "Sheeple " is a recent buzz word! I have been using it for a while- I think we will have your water - ta mate :D
          What about mastitis? and infections in the udder? This would be painful- i understand that they need to relieve the pressure by being milked - but I feel its unfair that the cows are made pregnant against their will - just so humans can have milk that is meant for calves. I have seen a lot of footage of calves being shot for dog food , being punched , kicked and mistreated, also the whole veal industry is created by killing these dear little calves- and their Mums miss them and moo like mad when seperated. I do accept that in some parts of the world there is real farmers who treat their animals well - til slaughtered - thats the part I am against, especially with all the repercutions of global warming (methane etc/transport/ water to grow crops to feed cows) it just seems a mess- and human health also suffers- I wish you could watch food ink or earthlings - free on youtube .... Thanks for the convo mate :D
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        Apr 29 2013: You do realise that one of the major effects of climate change in Australia will be increased rainfall. Look at the recent sequence of wet summers.
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          Apr 29 2013: that may be true , but our problem is that the rain doesn't land in our reserve dams or rain in the areas it needs to ... that's why they've spent much money on desalination plants at the moment.
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    Apr 26 2013: While humans have a moral responsibility to treat animals in a humane fashion, animals do not intrinsically have rights.
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      Apr 26 2013: There is no such thing as humane factory farming or killing animals for meat humanely- the animals live a miserable short existance , then are slaughtered in often very voilent and clumsy ways. Animals should have rights , just because they can't speak our language , and we are dominant over them, does not make it right for us to be cruel.Animals should have rights ! Animals are sentient beings, they feel pain, joy, love , despair just the same as humans, one day we will look back and feel bad about the holocaust we have caused the animals . Lets hope in the future we wake up , and learn to live in a cruelty free world , untill the animal holocausts ends, I fear we will not advance as a human race, may be even perish as a result, factory farming is not sustainable and is killing our planet, all because animals are seen as produce and do not have rights- Thanks for your response though
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        Apr 27 2013: I'd hate to be a pain. but there is a handful a farmers that try their very best to be as accomodating to their cattle/ livestock.
        i personally grew up on a dairy farm where we did everything from open pasture grazing, cleaned their beds everyday and sanitized every second weekend, their beds were waterbeds (very comfy heavy rubber waterbeds), we had a machined that pushed there excrement down through there slats keeping there hooves and udders cleaner and less disease and so on, trimmed there hooves every 4 months (foot care), had rotating brushes installed so they could scratch there backs, mixed a variety of feed including all the nutrients they could ever need and more, we trimmed there tails because sometimes they get too long and drag in the dirt and hold germs, knowledgeable farmers with great health breeding and care systems.

        There is SO much we did every day in and out to try too make the cows happy and healthy and discussions never stopped for improvements and the only time we would eat their meat is once they have died of natural causes or were in too much pain too continue (quick death with pin into head) extended calf care socialization and efficiency were used theres so much too say we had respect for our animals

        I guess what i am getting at is that there are many many things wrong with the industry but if you meet a farmer don't immediately judge him as ignorant and rude until you had a conversation with the man/woman. usually the smaller farms that sell locally or even to bigger companies have respect for there animals or else why would they be in the business of raising them?

        not by choice i am telling you. long hours and hard work paying taxes both ways surviving on government subsidies for little to no praise even being hated by some is a hard job.

        i do agree with you on the factory farms which is what you were probably getting at.
        they are a disgrace and they are very unsettling and discouraging.

        quality over quantity:)
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          Apr 27 2013: Wow thanks for the informative comment! Very good to learn something new - and yes I was referring to intensive factory farming. Sounds like you had a great childhood and took great care of your cows. Yes I was referring to intense factory farming - they shouldn't use the word "farming as it's not" . I am still of the opinion that cows milk is meant for calves only- as humans are not calves... then theres all the research that shows milk is full of hormones and antibiotics , is harmful to the human body etc - I loved the fact that you had rotating brushes for their backs:D
    • Apr 26 2013: Lawren, all living creatures in existence on this planet have rights, the right to live and be free just like us. Any other view on the subject is a really closed minded view. DO you seriously believe that animals are just animals, here for our amusement and needs?
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        Apr 27 2013: How do we make the lions understand the caribou's right to life? How can the shark be made to understand the tuna's right to life? My point is that animals cannot be made to understand or respect the concept of rights.

        Only humans understand the concept of rights, so only humans have them. We can (and should) choose to treat animals with respect and kindness, but that's humans making a conscious decision to do so, not because animals have rights.
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        Apr 27 2013: 1. Human anatomy is designed to eat fruit , veg - be a herbivore- not a carnivore so you cant compare us to true carnivores... true carnivores eat other animals and i am not desputing that , just that humans are herbivores, NOT omnivores or carnivores.
        2.Animals weren't put on this earth to be enslaved , tortured and eaten by us- they should not be treated as a commodity.
        3. Just because animals cant defend themselves , doesnt give us the right to be cruel to them, I am not saying give them working rights or human rights , obviously they have the right to share this planet with us - the right to live a fair , full cruelity free life... Thanks for you input though
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    May 1 2013: Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
    Humans like other omnivores lack the gut flora to make our own B12 so we get it by eating herbivores or carnivores that eat herbivores.
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      May 16 2013: Yes if you are lucky as a meat eater you get some , many clinical studies show that a large majority of meat eaters are deficient in B12. As many as 3/4 ! Meat eaters only get small amounts as due to the intense fast pace of slaughter occurs , the animals are caked in faeces and mud/dirt and can't be helped get into the meat as it is processed. Along with hair and other bacterias and sometimes blood borne viruses- eg mad cow disease. The reason why vegans take a supplement as most humans like to wash our fruit and veges, removing the soil, and todays soil is often poor in quality . Thats why they say mushrooms are good for B12 as they are grown in soil, contain some soil and are grown in manure like properties. And Wiki isn't the most reliable source to quote as any one can edit it. Thanks for the input though !
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        May 17 2013: If you are concerned about Wiki pedia feel free to read some of the peer reviewed papers referenced at the end. I assure you everything I have said can be varified. I don't know where your information is coming from but mine is coming from published science journals as I am a science teacher and teach nutrition as part of the course. I would not have posted the link to the wiki page if I hadn't fact checked it first
        http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/
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          May 17 2013: "Vitamin B-12 is synthesized by single-celled microbes (bacteria) that live in the soils of the earth. And long ago when the earth and soils were healthy, before we put all sorts of chemicals on them, the surface of the earth was covered with vitamin B-12. There used to be lots of vitamin B-12 in our lives. Even if you were a pure vegetarian 300 years ago, you could open up the back door of your cottage and outside would be a beautiful organic garden. Every carrot you pulled out of the ground would have little particles of vitamin B-12 sticking to it. When it came time to get your water, you'd take a bucket of water out of the stream, and there too you would find vitamin B-12. There would be B-12 under your finger nails from working in the garden. There would be plenty of B-12 in your life, and since you needed so little of it, concerns about deficiency would not be an issue.

          "We've become very isolated from the earth and we've lost our natural sources of B-12. Cows have B-12 in their muscles because they're eating grass all day and their pulling up clumps of dirt that have B-12 producing organisms clinging to the root of the grass. They eat the B-12 producing organisms who produce the B-12, which gets absorbed into their bloodstream, goes out into the muscles, and is deposited into their muscles and livers. But that is bacterial B-12 in the cow's muscle. The cow did not make it, nor did the pig or chicken. "

          http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/optimum.htm [Comment: at least the animal didn't make the cobalt required for B12 synthesis. Korn.]
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        May 20 2013: The bacteria that produce B12 live in the gut of any animal that derives nutrition from fermenting cellulose. That's first year biology if you're interested in an education. If it wasn't for the gut flora most herbivores would starve. That's why cows have four stomachs and most other herbivores have some part of their digestive system greatly enlarged.
        BTW B12 isn't common in nature as it oxidises on exposure to the air. It has a half-life of 6 days, so must be stored away from exposure to oxygen like inside an organism of some description.
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      May 25 2013: Thats just plain silly ...
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    May 1 2013: Diet and foraging
    Chimpanzee eating fruit.The chimpanzee is an omnivorous frugivore. It prefers fruit above all other food items and will even eat them when they are not abundant. It will also eat leaves and leaf buds. Seeds, blossoms, stems, pith, bark and resin, insects and meat make up the rest of its diet.[19][27] While the common chimpanzee is mostly herbivorous, it does eat honey, soil, insects, birds and their eggs, and small to medium-sized mammals, including other primates.[19][28] The western red colobus ranks at the top of preferred mammal prey. Other mammalian prey include, red-tailed monkeys, yellow baboons, blue duikers, bushbucks and warthogs.[29] Jane Goodall documented many occasions within Gombe Stream National Park of chimpanzees and western red colobus monkeys ignoring each other within close proximity.[30][31]
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      May 1 2013: OK so i can see you are getting down to the nitty gritty- so some monkeys have eaten some flesh in times of food scarcity- that doesn't mean we have to . Eating meat is a learned behaviour, monkey see , monkey do- if you consider humans more intelligent then that means we don't need to do it.
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        May 1 2013: Actually all chimpanzees eat some meat as it is a vital part of their diet.
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          May 16 2013: It is not vital, we will NOT perish without it - It IS totally viable to live well on a plant based diet...
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      May 1 2013: http://greentidings.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/a-comparative-look-at-carnivores.html

      Proof that we are herbivores , not omnivores - Don't forget animals have rights and meat causes a plerthora of illnesses in humans - we can eat a plant based diet and be much healthier :D
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        May 1 2013: I suggest you google Milton R Mills before referencing his work. He has no published research in any journal I can find.
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      May 16 2013: Check out Dr Cambell and Dr Barnard, very esteemed Drs .. prove that we are not omnivores or carnivores
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html
      You salivate over cooked veges or fruits , not cows playing in the field... think about it....
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    May 1 2013: Yous alimentary canal might be 12 times your body length but mine is only four times my body length because I'm Human. Please check your data. Unless you refer to snout to vent length then I'm about 9 times. I thought most herbivore digestive tracts were characterised by either large appendices/caecum or fermenting stomachs both of which we lack. We also lack the gut flora that produces vitamin B12 so we have to get it from some other animal.
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      May 1 2013: B12 comes from the soil , the only reason some meat eaters get it is because the cows are caked in mud and faeces which due to the frequency and intense killing rate , it can't be helped but get into the meat along with ecoli and other nasties. B12 does NOT made by animals , it is made in the soil- Not all herbivores have fermenting stomachs , and ours is pouch shaped and has the correct gut flora to perfectly digest plant matter. You would do well to go back and to do your homework on this - I can't reference at this stage as I am at work- short of time . There are many scholarly articles that confirm my facts/ statements. Then there is all the other things such as jaws and teeth, claws, vitamin C production, tails, saliva which I have quoted in other comments here. HUMANS ARE HERBIVORES - Thanks for you response though.
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    May 1 2013: If humans are not supposed to eat meat then why does our digestive system most closely resemble those of other omnivores? Chimpanzees. pigs etc.
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      May 1 2013: They do not - You need to do your homework- check out the hcl differences and fine motor skills of our fingers for picking fruit etc ... More on this later.
  • Apr 29 2013: Your welcome!
  • Apr 27 2013: Because it is easy and the path of least resistance.

    You generalize and make assumptions with your first series of questions. Do you have data you can provide to substantiate your claims? Who decides how much a person needs to look into food choices? Food has been scarce in many places in the past, and still is scarce in some places. So for some the choice is do I eat what I have available and live or choose not to eat it and die. Not much of a choice.

    The most basic instinct, given a food choice, is to eat what you like. You have to receive some training or knowledge to know the relative difference between choices. Otherwise, you have to choose who to believe relative to taking advice about the best choices, but that involves either work or risk. The path of least resistance if to eat what you like and believe the people telling you it is the right choice.

    Man is a carnivore by nature. You have to learn to be something else. Does a decision to eat meat mean you refuse to consider animal rights? No. It just means you have decided to east some animals to survive. (As a side note, some of them will also eat us).

    Do people that make poor food choices refuse to accept information about the benefits of certain types of diets? No. Some are unaware of the information, some do not care about the information, some do not possess the self-discipline to change their eating habits.

    Do people care about the food issues of future generations? I think the answer is not much relative to thier own survival, but given two equal choices, one being bad for the future and one being good, most would pick the good choice.

    Here is one you didn't ask. Are people skeptic about information passed along as unsubstantiated truth by special interest groups, politicians, and extremists? Yes.

    If you want to sway public opinion, provide some facts and offer feasible alternatives for folks to consider. Make a case for your position and perhaps you will gain adherence.
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      Apr 29 2013: It is a fact most people in developed countries eat meat , and to a lesser extent third world countries eat meat, as they are becoming more affluent and meat is produced in larger quantities. As for who decides how much a person needs to look into their food choices it is that person alone and it is the parents who teach their children what to eat. And as for food scarcity- that is what I am on about, if the world went vegan, then there would be more than enough food to feed the world several times over, transport is possible to remote regions , and it is time we as citizens of the earth looked after each other.Yes it is a basic instinct to eat what you like, but also it is a basic instinct to love and care for animals as a child, it is a learned behavior to be cruel and disconnected to eat meat.Correct, people do receive training and knowledge to eat meat, that doesn't make it right. Man is not a carnivore by nature- It is NOT natural for humans to eat meat! What does natural mean ? When did you last enjoy the warm , tasty contents of a freshly slaughtered sheep ripped apart with your bare teeth?We don't eat any natural meat products .We cook them, spice them, put the on bread and in pies.Neither is there anything natural about drugs injected into animals to make them grow larger(and )produce eggs and milk more often. In any case , a new anthropologist generation found our hominid ancestors to be originally vegetarian. Carnivores have sharp pointed front teeth and no flat back grinding teeth, herbivores have no sharp pointed front teeth and have flat back grinding teeth. A carnivores intestinal tract is only three times its body length to allow decaying flesh to pass quickly, a herbivores' and our intestinal tracts are up to 12 times body length to allow vegetable nutrient absorption. There are other physiological differences between carnivores and herbivores where ; we are copies of the latter:
      • Apr 29 2013: Omnivore...right you are.
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          Apr 30 2013: By omnivore you mean raccoons and crows ... Not humans - glad to see you got the gist of it ; )
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      Apr 29 2013: Carnivores- make own vitamin c , perspire via tongue, born with teeth, move jaws vertically, rip and swallow food,suffer atherosclerosis , have dense tooth bone to crush bones of prey.

      Herbivore- Vitamin C from fruit and veges , perspire via skin, born without teeth, jaws have grinding motion, chew food, spared atherosclerosis, have many times less dense tooth bone . are spared Alzheimer if vegan (belongs to meat eaters).
      The animals with which we are most likely aligned with are chimpanzees , whose diet is 95% meat free ; and gorillas and orangutans who are vegetarians. The 5% is commonly insects coincidentally eaten on plants and termites. " Refs : Thought Leader . com .za /burning paper /2009/10/12/the-evil-of -meat.
      Fox- deep vegetarianism page 25
      vegan voice June - aug 2003 page 41 .
      'but you kill ants" - John Waddel
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      Apr 29 2013: We do not need to eat meat to survive ! If you eat a calorie sufficient diet , meaning fruit and veges - healthy foods- you will get enough protein- the protein story is propaganda from the meat and dairy industry to scare you into eating their product- there a billions of people who do not eat meat- and are healthy. You are not giving animals the right to live if you choose to eat them! You may choose what to eat , not who to eat! Of course some animals would eat us _ that is because they are the TRUE carnivores - not Us . yes people are labile about their food choices, some care and some don't - that's why vegans wish to educate and show people that the meat industry isn't necessary and it is cruel. I want people to look into their food choices for themselves , I wish to create the spark for them to be curious , after all they will choose their diet from their own research, would be more resistant to take the info from either a meat eater or a vegan in case the info is biased. Thanks for your articulate response :D
  • Apr 26 2013: Is that really true? Are you assuming what you are trying to prove? What's the difference between do you really believe what you think you know or do you believe that you know what you think? I think those are the questions, and Fritzie has a good point about the sheeple. Aren't you overly critical of sheep? Have you ever heard of a sheep actually doing anything mean like Rush Limbaugh?
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      Apr 26 2013: are you saying if a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it .... ?
  • Apr 26 2013: This seems like an interesting topic for a very nice debate, but I don't quite get the question here. Cure for diabetes? Do you have access to information that we do not have maybe?

    I don't see logically how the dairy industry can eliminate water sources for future generations. Pollution is a way bigger factor when it comes to diminishing our water sources. Could you reformulate your question?
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      Apr 26 2013: Hi there thanks for your response :D Many studies , such as "The China Study" , 15 years of the most comprehensive nutritional clinical trials have revealed that meat is linked to diabetes and cancers , oestoeporsis, alzeimers and many other illnesses. As for water, it is the most scarce commodity on the planet to sustain life. If you read up on factory farming- or how much water it takes to produce one pound of beef , it is mind boggling- check this out http://www.vegsource.com/articles/pimentel_water.htm" the data we had indicated that a beef animal consumed 100 kg of hay and 4 kg of grain per 1 kg of beef produced. Using the basic rule that it takes about 1,000 liters of water to produce 1 kg of hay and grain, thus about 100,000 liters were required to produce the 1 kg of beef." Basically we are using way more water on creating meat for a small amount of the population to eat meat while millions starve and have no water to drink - If the world ate a plant based diet , no one would starve.
      • Apr 26 2013: If the world ate a plant based diet, the earth would die. Humans currently over populate the earth, our bodies need a lot of protein to function. I don't know if you're aware of it, but vegetables and natural greens aren't cheap. Not only that, most plants aren't good sources of protein. You'd have to eat twice the amount of food to maintain your body. Some plants are good sources of protein, but there could never be enough plants cultivated to feed the whole world without any grave consequences on nature. It would take twice the labor and water to produce enough food for the whole world.

        Not to say that animals were meant to be killed and eaten, but we're part of the animal kingdom, and animals have been eating each other to survive since forever. If you really care about the planet, the biggest problem for nature is human. We take space, conquer lands and destroy vegetation to build cities. We're reproducing at a very fast rate, and the worst part is humans feel entitled to the earth whether it be religion or just plain arrogance, our species, from a worldly perspective, is the real source of the problem.
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          Apr 27 2013: I agree with you on some points - like overpopulation and greed being in human nature, but i must say - do you have a degree in nutrition? It is quite easy to eat enough protein from plants- protein is over rated, it is propoganda from the meat and dairy industries , and I could go on and on , but I would really love your feedback if you watched "Earthlings" , or "Foodink" they are free on you tube- it covers it all- also 'Gary Yourofskys " Best Speech Ever on Youtube- Plus there is heaps of great info on vegan diets, its not expensive or hard at all, fake meats are only to help transition across IF you need it, or feel awkward at a BBQ. Also watch "I AM " Tom Shadyac - awesome movie - Give it a try, its so worth it :D