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Gordon Taylor

Retired engineer

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Are people of faith in fact gullible?

Gullibility is the belief in something with no substantiating facts to support that something. I contend that if you believe in something based upon Scripture, whichever religion you belong to then you are gullible. That is not to mean evil or stupid but simply gullible. This also differs somewhat from credulous depending on what actions you take in support of your beliefs or faith.

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    Apr 16 2013: This looks more like a statement than a question. You seem to have devoted and made your mind supportive of Scientism. Whatever science cannot detect or prove, does not exist. Too bad.

    We have the freedom to completely ignore and deny the existence of a spiritual realm. The one thing that usually changes that 'mindset' is a Near Death Experience. Usually.

    I see it as living in a basement and not acknowledging the higher floors. But if that makes you happy and also a kind person.. fine. Science is limiting your eternity.

    There are so many parallels between our individual development (body and spirit) and mankind's development (which are hidden in the Bible). Someone who is consistent must be in charge.
    Heart and lungs--will and intellect.
    Digestive system--mental process of ideas.
    Blood system--Love.

    Creation Story--the human spiritual development
    Tabernacle--the human spiritual environment
    Egypt -> Canaan--human process from being natural to becoming spiritual.
    Etc., etc.

    Science cannot detect or measure what we love, or think, other than what our receiver (brain) displays. Why? Wouldn't it be nice if we could detect someone thinking and planning to set-off a bomb?!

    One requirement to become positive to this is, as said, become like little children. That does not mean we have to empty our mind and give up all we learned and know.
    It means to have the humility to see our limits and allow ourselves to be lead.

    We have been given freedom and reason, all we have to do is use them wisely.
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      Apr 16 2013: I just think the higher floors hypothesises are highly speculative and many aspects of religious experience are natural brain states or abnormal ones most likely.

      I agree with your final statement. No issue if we come to different conclusions and don't harm others.
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        Apr 16 2013: Your comment reminded me of something I read:

        "Our thinking can prevent uf from seeing clearly in the present moment. We get caught up in thinking we know what we are seeing and feeling. Just being familiar with this deeply entrenched pattern and watching it as it happens can lead to greater nonjudgmental receptivity and acceptance."

        "What's good for the goose, is also good for the gander"
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          Apr 17 2013: True.

          I guess there is an optimal balance between being open to new information, ideas, explanations, evidence, and changing your stance appropriately, and still testing these ideas, to not giving up on your world view every time you hear a different opinion.

          Critical thinking for you ideas and beliefs, not just others.

          I find ted makes me test my current beliefs, think about them, while responding and considering other views. I've incorporated better ideas I have heard. If you hear 20 conflicting views you can not accept them all into your world view.

          Some views will be wrong in fact or very subjective. Others are just points of view and equally valid.

          I hope we agree that not all the conflicting views can be correct, or that not all positions are equally thought through critically or developed.
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        Apr 17 2013: "I hope we agree that not all the conflicting views can be correct, or that not all positions are equally thought through critically or developed."

        I think I can agree with this statement.
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      Apr 17 2013: Adriaan
      I have a considerable respect for Science and a degree in Physics. However, I do not deny the existence of a supreme being I simply cannot except the century old doctrine within the Scriptures that have been edited by one or more churches and called the "Word of God". Since the time of Emperor Constantine the Christian Church (Catholic) has tuned pagan worship to satisfy the beliefs that Christ was a deity and not just a kind and thoughtful human. I don't doubt that similar editing has occured for many of the other religions as well. However the roles of Moses,Muhamed or Buddha seem to be more as prophets than deities. Now I am no authority on religion and my personal experience was in the Lutheran Church but I must remain sceptical of the stories within the Bible. Genesis and the Great Flood both are troublesome and ring of myth not truth. Thats only my opinion however.
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          Apr 17 2013: Hi Chris, many an evangelical would disagree with you.
          I was taught the flood story literally.
          Freaked me out a bit as a Sunday school kid. God drowned everyone? Really?
          The seeds of doubt begin.

          Also most belonging to most religions would disagree.

          I'm with Gordon, that most likely a man called Jesus lived, and some of his followers and Paul who never met Jesus started a small cult Jewish sect that later they decided to include non Jews, and somewhere a critical influential mass deified him etc.

          While I don't know if he resurrected and doubt it, even if he did it doesn't make him a god, or the bible the literal word, or anything to do with any actual deity. Its just a mystery. I figured that out in my teens.

          Similarly if some old religious texts have some code or symbolism it does not mean it is not man made, misinterpreted or a mystery. IMO.
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        Apr 17 2013: Gordon it was a pleasure to read your response. Just one request, please do not see my response as coming from a traditional or fundamental Christian. I'm sure you'll notice a difference :)

        One reason for the Bible to be written the way it is, is because it was meant for many generations over many ages, possibly millions of years. And thus was adjusted to be received by mankind with very different mental and spiritual developments. There existed Revelation before Genesis, which was copied by Mozes and became the first 10 chapters of Genesis. More about that later.

        Another reason is that nothing, and I mean nothing in the Bible has any relevance or connection to this physical world. Not even the Creation Story. It is all about the spiritual side of mankind. As Jesus said about His own words, they were all 'spirit and life.'

        The first 10.5 chapters of Genesis were made-up history, as an index of what the rest of the Old Testament is all about. The internal meaning of the text is a spiritual application for each individual that ever was or will be. This physical world was not created in 7 days neither were serpents able to talk at that time. The people mentioned were belief systems, the number of their ages were indications of their spiritual quality. The Garden of Eden is a heavenly mind-set, because it focuses on the proper 'tree.' This is the tip, of the tip, etc of the infinite 'iceberg.'

        Swedenborg wrote 12 volumes just dealing with Genesis and Exodus, word for word. Please have a look at the first one, which, obviously, also deals with the Creation Story and what Adam and Eve were.
        http://sites.google.com/site/liveitupspiritually/home/writings/Arcana%20Coelestia%2001.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1

        I'd love to hear your reaction, but also please do not think that a loving God would sent you to hell if you don't agree with this!

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