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Mathew Naismith

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If it was allowed would an arena with gladiators fighting to the death prove popular in modern times?

I think it would be packed out myself which just show how bad our intellectual & moral selves have deteriorated back to sensationalism of the good old days of the Roman empire which has many similarities to the present empire we are living under today, what do you think?

Topics: sensationalism
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    Apr 6 2013: Well, it's an interesting question but also a strange and unrealistic one. Because our society works mightily to be humane, gentle, sensitive. We have a million laws to protect people from crime, we have laws to protect people from the emotional bruises of racism, we struggle immensely with the question of whether to have a death penalty, and many countries have banned it. I can't imagine that the same countries that do all this would then allow gladiator fights, it doesn't add up, it doesn't cohere.

    If, theoretically, this was allowed, many would want to attend, but many would mount protests, protests outside the stadium, I'm sure that many who hated the gladiator fights would refuse to socialize with the people who attended and by so doing would make it socially reprehensible to attend.
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      Apr 6 2013: G'day Greg

      Have you been in the presence of a cold blooded killer, there are more of these kind of people out there than one would want to know. So many people are anti-cop but they have no idea what the police are actually stopping from happening in the first place, take away our protection either in the police force or armed forces & you would then see how many of these cold blooded killers there are walking the streets right beside us & how many more would-be killers joining them.

      Take away one thing like human rights what do you have? Anarchy, take away any more than this & you have a slaughter house, one huge Roman arena. Yes I agree there are a lot of nice people out there but if we took a close look at what’s most popular through the media it would be violent sensationism & this is growing not diminishing.

      Love
      Mathew
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        Apr 6 2013: Mathew,
        Has there been a suggestion to "take away our protection either in the police force or armed forces"? Has there been a suggestion to "take away human rights"? I don't think so....why do you bring this into the discussion?

        Honestly my friend, it feels like you are expressing a lot of fear and maybe a wee bit of sensationalism? Why do you want to do that?

        Yes, I have met people who have killed other people, when volunteering with the dept. of corrections for 6 years. Have you?
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Colleen

          I was drug running at one stage of my life, one of my best mates was pumped full of battery acid & cut up with a chainsaw while still alive & if I was there & asked to assist in this I would have at that stage because of fear. I latter on worked in the welfare arena twice over in my 49 yrs , I think I might now what I am talking about Colleen, OK!!

          If the world economy collapsed altogether Colleen so would our protection & that could happen just like that in a blink of an eye. What would happen if a sizable meteorite hit Earth, do you really think everyone wouldn't be scrambling for food & doing anything immoral & barbarous to obtain & keep that food? This is utter complacency thinking that our protection is always going to be there & that most of us couldn’t ever be barbarous in any circumstance when we are showing so much barbarous tendencies in days of relative peace, harmony & protection.

          The thing is we think we are invulnerable & have become complacent because we are supposed to be more intelligent or civilised these days but the Romans thought the exact same thing in there days, all I am doing is pointing out is there is very little difference between us & them but we think there is.

          It is funny you accuse me of scare mongering & sensationalism when all I’m doing is pointing out the obvious that we are complacent within our idealisms & modes of thought. People like you Colleen annoy me because you complacently do nothing about the obvious but you will have ago at people like myself who wish to point out the obvious that others know little about because of their complacency.

          Love
          Mathew
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        Apr 7 2013: I am not complacent Mathew....never have been. Sorry you feel annoyed because I do not follow your script.
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Colleen

          Well I'm not just scare mongering or sensationalising either Colleen just because you can't follow my script, you seemed to be trying to make out I didn't know what I was talking about here when you had no idea of my past history, I would say I would know more than you do of the nitty gritty parts of the more darker side of life.

          Don't use your own experiences against others without knowing what they have experienced themselves first, it's not a very smart move, I should know I've done it myself.


          Love
          Mathew
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Kate

          Yes but am I right in showing people their own complacency especially to do with something that might not happen but of course could happen at anytime? We live in these modern times & we really think we are so distant from committing barbarous acts ourselves but were not especially when you take into consideration that there are the barbarous acts acted out everyday by people at present in our time.

          I do go a little over the top with discussion like this but I suppose I can see what's happening because of my past experiences where's others who haven't had the same experiences never will, we know what we experience & learn nothing more.

          If people knew what was out there they wouldn't be so complacent however Colleen might be right about me because if they knew they would become paranoid so maybe I am going over the top a little too much on this but I think on TED we all have enough sense not to allow ourselves to become paranoid, I certainly wouldn't have brought this up with my disability clients!!

          Love
          Mathew
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          Apr 7 2013: Mathew,
          I don't feel I am "right" about anything, as you have stated in the comment above. I am aware of quite a bit that is "out there" and again, I am not complacent, nor am I afraid to address the issues.

          My preference is to not focus on everything that is horrible in our world, because I agree with you that it sometimes causes people to become paranoid. I DO wholeheartedly agree that there are some issues we need to face as a global community. I have done my best to face some of those issues on a local level, and I have clearly stated that.
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        Apr 7 2013: Mathew,
        I have not used anything "against" you. I tried to have a conversation with you. I do not believe that everyone is complacent. There are people who are complacent, and many of us are not.
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Colleen

          Your putting words in my mouth, I didn't say everyone was complacent, you replied to a response that I made to another person which had nothing to do with you but it seemed you took this personally to me anyway by the response I got from you accusing me of being this that & the other.

          You are wrong in saying what you initially said to me obviously Colleen as I am in responding to you about such unwarranted comments made towards myself in the first place which you need to be made aware of, I took offence as I feel you worded your response towards me badly & needed correcting in my mind but you obviously don't think so, let's leave it at that please.

          Love
          Mathew
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Kate

          Yes Pabitra nailed it & so did Carolyn saying we never left Roman ideologies behind as they are very much a part of our makeup & yes we should be aware of this without harping on about it.

          Is watching lizards fighting a part of that Roman ideology I wonder but of course I don't exactly like watching them fight just the rest of the antics they get up too. Jailed or fined for watching lizard fights now that's a new one & it shows how far the other way we could go with this. We are definitely funny creatures ourselves I just wonder who’s watching us, boy what a laugh a minute we would be!!

          Love
          Mathew
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Kate

          I look at myself after an altercation with someone & I usually shake my head not at them but at myself in how I am so easily roped into such altercations & how wrong I can be within myself & how I conducted myself.....Life's a joke depending in how you are looking at it as you have said here!!

          Look, we know better so how come we still do dopey things, is it a subconscious thing like we subconsciously know it to be a joke but our conscious doesn’t? Is the subconscious getting a laugh out of the conscious reaction to the joke I wonder or do we really take life too seriously?

          Love
          Mathew

          Mathew
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          Apr 7 2013: Well, it's a good question, Kate, how is war different from gladiators fighting to the death? I would say because it's less controlled, if gladiators were fighting to the death one thinks they would have no real grudge against each other, it would just be cold spectacle, whereas in war real emotions are involved, each side feels aggrieved. But we certainly as a planet protest war, when a nation becomes aggressive, we often embargo it, etc.

          I would say we all protest against the things that affect us most directly, most locally. I fight pretty hard on a lot of local issues here in Glendale, California.

          Actually, I think there is lot of self-interest whenever a person tries to "make something better." For instance, I fight litter on my street, often picking up trash with my bare hands and putting it in the nearest trashcan. First and foremost, this is for my own benefit, but it happens to benefit everyone else on the street as well.

          What human rights abuses are you talking about in China? I think it must be a question of degree, that some abuses are so over the top that we embargo, and some aren't as over the top. Also it can be hard to get information about what is going on in another country. Also we may have the sense that what we consider abuse "feels" different in another culture. There is also a problem that if you punish people with protests and embargo, you may make abuses worse rather than better.
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        Apr 7 2013: Mathew,
        This is a response to your comment which begins...
        "Your putting words in my mouth, I didn't say everyone was complacent, you replied to a response that I made to another person which had nothing to do with you but it seemed you took this personally to me anyway by the response I got from you accusing me of being this that & the other."

        Mathew, you clearly stated to me and about me:
        "People like you Colleen annoy me because you complacently do nothing about the obvious but you will have ago at people like myself who wish to point out the obvious that others know little about because of their complacency."

        Mathew, I will say again....I am not complacent, and never have been. I do not take your comment personally, I simply clarified that I am not complacent. I have not accused you of anything Mathew. I'm sorry you feel offended because I clarified my perspective.
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Colleen

          Sorry if I have offended you as it's obvious I have.

          Love
          Mathew
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        Apr 7 2013: Well, Mat, I'm sure there are many angry people who would kill if it were allowed. But it seems to me the masses, and the governments, would not allow gladiators fighting to the death any more. It just feels too wrong to allow that, and they would have to endure huge criticism from all over the world. In fact, I believe any country would embargo another country that allowed gladiator fights to the death, would not do trade with it. Even ruthless dictators would not have gladiator fights to the death.

        I'm not sure media sensationalizes violence. When violence happens in real life, the media reports it. And then there is a lot of fictional violence, but that's very different from letting people fight to the death in real life. The mass of people can differentiate between fantasy violence and real violence.

        Love
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          Apr 7 2013: G’day Greg

          Greg my friend I was only hypothesising, if it was allowed the arenas even today would be packed however like you said there would be in an uproar unlike in the Roman days but I’m not sure people didn’t voice out about it then either.

          My point is if people look on while someone is being raped &/or bashed in glee or even join in & then share this on the net but not only that for it to get numerous hits just shows you where people’s mentality & immorality is at is all I’m saying.

          With the media in my days growing up, I am now 49 yrs old, we had real family shows to watch, they weren’t explicit in any way which includes sexuality & violence, sure people died & made love but this wasn’t shown explicitly as it was left up to your imagination but these days we need more sensationalism to excite the senses of the populous to watch a particular show or movie which of course is connected to making a profit .Take away the profit from entertainment & entertainment itself would change in time because you wouldn’t have competition between events & shows for profitable gain.

          If you hammer the populous with continues violence the mentality of that populous changes because it affects the psyche subconsciously as it would if we went back to showing real family oriented shows & movies & games are the same. We didn’t hear of shootings back when I was a kid, there has to be a reason for this today taking in consideration I also grew up in war time.

          Love
          Mathew
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        Apr 7 2013: Well, true, some people look on while someone is raped, but many do not. I don't think you can say that such incidents reflect on everybody's mentality, or even most people's mentality. True, they can get posted on the net and get hits while they are obscure and not many people have seen them, but once they get discovered then they are quickly taken off the net and the people are looked for and arrested if found.

        Well, it may be that TV and movies are more sensational at times, but isn't there a natural tendency to get bored with one thing and go on to another? So if you do family shows for a while, after a while you may move on to risque shows just for a change. But if you watch the risque shows, they still have pretty good values, the good guy usually wins in the end, love wins out in the romantic stories. I'm afraid if you take away the profit you will have extremely boring, low-quality TV, you might get TV like you get in China, don't you imagine TV in China is kind of bad, only two channels and both are run by the government.

        I don't know that the populace is hammered with continuous violence. There are many choices in what one watches, and there are many gentle, relatively loving stories on TV and in movies. I believe you could easily avoid violent shows if you wanted. Can you not find gentle shows, Mat? I'm thinking of the movie "E.T.," for example. If you've never seen that, it's fairly gentle. But you know, when I studied literature, they said every story is built around a conflict, it's what they call dramatic arc, the story starts low-key, builds to a conflict, the conflict is resolved somehow, and the story ends. Even "E.T." has conflict in it. Now, as I write this answer, I'm wondering if you can avoid conflict in life? Even if you turn off the TV and movies, can you ever get away from conflict? Even when we eat we're going to kill something, I believe plants have personality and vegetarians are killers, too.What to do, not eat and die?
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          Apr 7 2013: G'day Greg

          My point is Greg violence is getting worse but why? Most people aren't violent but they will watch/read violent media but this doesn't make all these people into violent killers as was the same of the gladiators before being captured & forcefully trained as killers. The media can & has captured a certain amount of people within it's violent content & made them into killers for which they wouldn't have been if it wasn't for certain media influences. Why not rid ourselves completely of such influences in the first place instead of taking such stupid unnecessary risks.

          I can't find the link but there are some people high up in the US music industry that have invested in private prisons, to keep them full they deliberately changed the style of rap music to incite violence & this is only one of many things that have done on around the world just through the media, the media is a powerful tool that is & has been used to change people’s psyche without them knowing it. What has spurred on consumerist materialism? We all know it’s destroying our environment we rely on for our existence but we continue blindly with this kind ideology.

          I’m not saying nor have I ever said that all people are perceptible to violence intent through different influences to the point of accepting killing arenas but a good number are for the main reason of our modern day influences & it does seem that the number is growing which is disconcerting.

          Are there enough moral people out there to stop an over flow of violent oriented people acting out such violent act? We have a lot more violence on the streets than when I was growing up so the answer is no.
          Love
          Mathew
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        Apr 8 2013: I don't know if violence is getting worse, Mat. I want to be optimistic that it isn't, do you think you are being too much of a pessimist on this one? Maybe you should research the numbers. Look first at how many people are born in a year, for example, and then see how many die an unnatural death due to violence at some point in their lives. I would think it will be a tiny percentage, less than 1%.

        I probably don't think fantasy violence in TV and movies encourages real-life violence. As I said before, if you control media too much you will end up with very boring media.

        I guess the first thing is to control one's own actions. For instance, you mention above watching a violent sports competition, and then a report about a real-life rape. The question might be why you didn't turn off the TV when you saw the competition, and not listen to the report about the rape.
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          Apr 9 2013: G’day Greg

          All I am doing Greg is going by what I once was able to do & what I can do now in comfort. Once upon a time not too long ago we used to be able to leave our cars engines running in the street while we went to the corner shop or leave our house unlocked but we can’t anymore. Once upon a time we used to be able to walk down any street & have no fear of being bashed of molested in any way so do I need hard facts in figures t0 figure out that violence & crime have escalated since I was born? I don’t think so because the facts speak for themselves.

          Am I being a little too much of a pessimist? Maybe but it’s far better than ignoring the situation & do nothing about the obvious, I see the obvious & I can’t sit on my hands & do nothing, I couldn’t think of anything worse than to deliberately act out what the supposed three wise monkeys portray but of course many can.

          There is a huge difference to watching the newscaster telling you about what has happened to actually witnessing what has happened, media these days don’t give you that choice of leaving it up to one’s imagination, maybe that’s why we are so lame & deliberately ignorant to the obvious .

          Love
          Mathew
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        Apr 9 2013: Well, I never could leave a door unlocked, Mat, or a car engine running. So things haven't changed for me that much. Never could walk down a street without thinking one might be attacked.

        I wonder how much the world population has grown since we were kids? Population pressure makes for less security, more people, more potential crime.

        Technology getting better may have made us more aware of crime. Now you can go on the Net and read about any crime, anywhere, probably watch film on it.

        Might be good to research and see if there is more crime per person now than 40 years ago.
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          Apr 9 2013: G'day Greg

          Yes this is a point which I thought of & yes of course crime is going to seem more prevalent as the population grows & yes the media output is more wide spread however for a supposed more intelligent & civilised people from the Romans which were civilised in their days from the rest of the known world, crime seems, per populous, just as prevalent.

          My point is we are not that more civilised than the Romans, OK we don't nail people to the cross or feed them to the lions but if you look at the atrocities being played out in the world like people being handcuffed & fed to crocodiles, lowered in big mulchers feet first & so on.

          OK that doesn't pertain to us more civilised cultures, not so sure on that. We have weapons that can kill horrifically on mass unlike a cross & we are being fed plastic & modified foods which make us ill so we have to go to doctors & take pills to make ourselves better from all the toxins we are being fed & that are strewn all around us for the sake of a dollar or two. These people who are doing this for a few dollars more know it’s killing us slowly, that to me sounds a hell of a lot worse than any Roman arena & we have the audacity to call ourselves civilised????

          In actual fact we all have & still do live in the arena but it is our choice if we want to fight to the death in our toxic environment which is spurred on by greed or not, we obviously chosen to fight to the death in this huge arena called Earth instead of dying in peace & harmony which doesn’t sound too civilised or intelligent to me.

          Love
          Mathew

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