Robert Winner


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Does winning take care of everything?

Many of our big name stars in the USA have fallen off of the wagon in some manner. The biggest names like Tiger Woods, Rick Pitino, Kobe Bryant all were caught cheating ... no sorrow .. no regret ... just plain ole liers and cheats. Even Nike was discussed enough to drop Tiger ... that is until last week when the Biggest name in cheating won and became the #1 golfer in the world again .. then the ad .. "Winning takes care of everything". Rick Pitino coach Louisville basketball is on the way to the finals in the NCAA tourneyment ... a while back he was having sex with a waitress on the table of a resturant .. bad ... hated ... and now he is the worlds best coach. Kobe Bryant ... caught .... buy the biggest diamond in town ... go to the Olympics and be on a winning team and bingo your back at #1 in the hearts of America.

Bill Clinton is the poster child for cheating and lying ... yet respected and admired in the Democratic party and speaks for $50,000 a hour.

These are cheaters and liers. I don't get it.

Does winning take care of everything?

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    Mar 30 2013: Personal moral failures do not necessarily translate to public popularity failures. One can succeed at one's profession while failing on a personal level. Or visa versa. The two spheres are mostly unrelated.

    What about when the lies are part of one's public sphere, such as asserting that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when they did not, and as a result, many many people died and we spent a trillion dollars we do not have? We "won" the war, so were we right? I don't care at all about Woods' lies because they do not affect me, but lies that impact me I care deeply about.
  • Mar 30 2013: No.

    In the case of the sports heros : Winning will not get these people back the respect of the general public, fans, and family lost due to inappropriate behavior. As some of your other posters have mentioned, they are not good role models. They earned the power of fame and money by their skills and competitiveness. These attributes are not coupled to ethical and moral personal behavior, yet they are held in great esteem by the sporting zealot community. This community is willing to forgive about anything of a sports champion. They are quick to turn on someone cheating in sports however, like doping. Those outside the sporting community and non-zealot sport fans hold the men to a higher standard of personal conduct. These people might enjoy watching a sports performance, but demand more of personal heros.

    Clinton: Clinton's moral behavior embarrassed our nation. The list of politicians that do not lie might be short. I often wonder what takes place in the Congressional ethics committee meetings. These elected officials should be held to a higher standard id they are to represent our communities and nation. I think they should all be bound by the military laws of conduct as a minimum.

    Fame, power and money have the ability to corrupt. The temptations associated with these things must be huge and require a very strong personal character to balance through life. It is still no excuse for poor behavior.

    Unfortunately, the poor behaviors demonstrated by these celebrities are common in other adults as well. If they do something bad, it is punished or forgiven, or just not noticed. I think the public is less willing to forgive poor behavior in celebrities because of envy.

    Winning does not take care of everything, it just means that you won a contest that day.

    Your personal behavior and strength of character are things you live with each day, win or lose. If you hurt the ones you love, or even the ones that like you, you have to live with the consequences.
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    Mar 30 2013: You are under the impression that Americans are smart, maybe that is the problem?

    People watch Basketball and Golf for entertainment. As long at they are entertaining, which means they win then yup people don't care.

    On other hand you have to be pretty stupid to look to a politician for entertainment? So I suppose it is based on an emotional reason. Considering the average American's knowledge of politics and politicians that might be what they base their decision on? Clinton is a good talker that doesn't offend anyone unless of course you have an IQ above 100... of course when your rice bowl is base on goverment largess that tends to have something to do with it as well.
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    Mar 30 2013: I share your disgust, Robert. I remember in the early days of the O.J. Simpson murder many sports fans expressed their solidarity for "The Juice."
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    Apr 2 2013: I think it goes wrong when we expect sports people etc to be more then they are. I don't care if Tiger cheats on his wife because I don't look to tiger for moral leadership I look to Tiger to improve my swing. The whole concept of the "hero" is flawed. There are paople who you admire for a particular quality they have. But somehow we have come to the point where if you're a successful sportsman, musician, actor, politician etc you also need to be perfect in every way. I will return to my heart surgery analogy. I don't care if Adolf Hitler does my operation as long as he's a good surgeon.
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      Apr 2 2013: Agreed ... it probally happened long ago when we held up professionals as role models. The .. I want to grow up to be like (name a star / politician / athelete).

      Part of the problem ... IMO .. is that we are bombed by the media when they buy a car, eat a meal, cheat, demonstrate unethical acts, etc ... In polisci we are taught that the most important thing is name recognition .... we can name the movie star, actor, dancer, singer, athelete, etc ... I would be hard pressed to name 5 nobel prize winners. It took me three tries by the way. Every kid in school can name the Quarterback on his school football team ... replace with the honor spot in your countries sport ... How many can name last years Valedictorian and Salutatorian. When I went to school we had awards for sportsmanship, most improved, and many other awards ... today the only thing that counts is winning. I don't believe that morals and ethics are held with the same values.

      American colleges that have a winning histrory get more recruits and more student enrollment. Sports are a major part of the fisical health of the school. Coaches are paid in the millions and receive much more in perks. The records also show that the student athelete is a cash cow and few graduate ... their education while there is a joke. I was in a class with a all american basketball player ... we were given a pop quiz and he handed in three type written pages in the first five minutes and left. He could spell his name right given three tries and two changes by the proctor. But he was worth millions to the school. When his player eligability ran out (4 years) he left school ... no sheep skin.

      I would not allow Hitler to do the operation ... his attitude on value of life would strike him from my list. I want a guy the fight to keep me alive .. not shrug his shoulders if I die.

      Thanks for the reply. Bob.
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    Apr 1 2013: Winning is highly rated in this 21st century life. Who doesn't want to win?
    But only a depraved world would celebrate the winning of crooks and dodgy folks. At the same time, one act, one mistake, does not make a person a cheat/liar.
    What should concern us is their state after the mistake. Are they repentant and remorseful? Are they determined to change?
    Jesus Christ says "By their fruits you shall know them"
    No human being is above mistake; sometimes we just crucify the popular ones whose failings are sensationalised by the media when in fact we do worse things in secret.
  • Mar 31 2013: Hello Robert,

    This question used to bother me every time it came up, starting with the Watergate scandal. In spite of his crimes, some people still considered Nixon as a statesman.

    I resolved my confusion by seeing it as a matter of values. For much of the public, the entertainment provided by these cheaters and liars is more valuable than moral principles. As much as I dislike thinking so lowly of the public, it seems to be a sad truth.
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    Mar 30 2013: Most definitely not. None of these people are as big as they were before they cheated. Kobe, for example, lost many of his endorsements and has never gotten them back. I believe the same is true of Tiger.
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    Mar 30 2013: As Robert G. says, "the poor behaviors demonstrated by these celebrities are common in other adults as well. If they do something bad, it is punished or forgiven, or just not noticed..."

    I don't know about the considerations within advertising meetings of when latching onto someone's celebrity is safe again, but it likely has something to do with whether the public for the product has forgiven the person. Many people are willing to forgive a person who went to rehab and whose wife has forgiven him (she being the real victim in the matter). Cheating at the actual sport is, I think, quite a different matter and less likely to be forgiven and a much greater risk for a company to appear to take too lightly.
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    Mar 30 2013: Bob, I am sure you have seen more of life than I have. Unless you are a fish unable to notice the water in which you are swimming, it should not be too difficult to notice that any culture that believes 'winner takes all' will surely show such aberrations as mentioned by you.
    'Compete and win' is a doctrine that West has accepted since Industrial Revolution. East copied it. This doctrine requires elimination of a huge number in the survival game so that only the winner gets all. Even in India, it is now believed that a person is not too big a name without few scandals.
    Having said that, Tiger Woods is still a champion golfer having a scandalous sex life. It's just that I won't like my son take on golf as profession with easy sex in mind. But the sportsmen who doped are real cheaters, IMO.
  • Mar 30 2013: Suffering, experienced when societal heroes F up, is experienced for one reason only. We have Misperceived the situation.....misread it, misunderstood it. If we investigate it, we eventually understand that their respective shortcomings emerge From a misidentification with the Ego. We say things like "what an ego maniac!" If we stop There with that shallow conclusion and explanation, and investigate no further, we have Failed. Upon deeper investigation, it is discovered that WE, the one tisk tisk tisking disapprovingly at the shamed hero, Are the Ones who have misidentified with the Ego. The Ego is the only thing that can experience this suffering. When we see the situation as it truly IS, we see it as "who" we truly "ARE" and there is No suffering.....only unattached observation of what IS......little Egos running around playing out their dramas, to lesser or greater degrees.

    To your question of Winning Taking Care of Everything? Not quite
  • Mar 30 2013: It is really a good question.because it can remind us to observe the things clearly:also because we are used to seeing things from winning:once you can win,all are sound good.there is also a saying in china:winner be king,loser be bandit.
    But it doesn't really mean so:at least personally:it is better to know who you really are...