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How can we consider the bible credible?

How could we rely on what the bible tells us? Looking at the bible from a historical point of view, it has been translated over and over again into hundreds of different languages. Over the years kings and rulers have altered and manipulated aspects to suit their reign. Even today there are multiple different interpretations. What effects do you think this has on the content?


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    Gail . 50+

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    Mar 25 2013: PART 1

    It can have MAJOR impacts on content. Let me offer a few examples of changes in text beginning with the King James Version in 1611.

    In the earlier texts, bar abba (as opposed to Barabbas) was released unharmed in the balcony scene. (Bar abba - or bar-abba in koine Greek - is a term or phrase. It's not a name. The name Barabbas didn't come into use until the 3rd century).

    What does bar abba mean? Well, bar means son of. Abba does in a way mean father, but not in the way that it was understood in ancient Aramaic. Abba was a term that a VERY young child would use when referring to his da da or pa pa or even daddy. Yet Jesus refers to his abba as so loving that all that is asked for is given and all that is asked is answered, which would make the best English equivalent of the word "Sugar Daddy". Jesus never used the word abba reverentially - which is in part why he pissed so many Rabbis off.

    Jesus never used the word repent. He used the words Metanoeo and Metamellamai (as translated into koine Greek in the oldest known texts). These two words mean - change your way of thinking and change your way of emoting - respectively.

    Jesus didn't speak of sin. He spoke of what was translated into koine Greek as "Hamartia". Hamartia means acting in ignorance, causing harm (be it to self or others).

    Jesus didn't speak of Hell. He spoke of Gehenna - a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem's city gates where those with wretched lives eek how a miserable existence.

    Jesus also said that the kingdom of heaven is within (now) and this wasn't changed, but is ignored.

    So if you put only these things together, you can see that Jesus was saying that if your life is wretched (as most were), then simply change what you're emoting and thinking to stop your hamartia (harming yourself because of your ignorance), and you will find the kingdom of heaven (universal consciousness or abba) from whence all the power and safety you want comes.

    • W T 100+

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      Mar 26 2013: Yes, the Greek word translated sin is ha‧mar‧ti′a.

      The verb is ha‧mar‧ta′no, which basically means “to miss the mark.”

      Sin in effect is imperfection. We are all sinners.....we are all imperfect......thus we die....our bodies cannot live forever.

      Does the Bible really teach that God’s Kingdom resides in human hearts? No.

      If you have studied the Bible, you learn that it states that the figurative heart means the inner person, the source of a person’s thoughts, attitudes, and feelings. The idea that something as sublime as the Kingdom of God resides within the human heart—in the way it changes and ennobles people, for example—may sound appealing, but does it stand to reason?

      The Bible tells us: “The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate.” (Jeremiah 17:9)

      Jesus himself said: “From inside, out of the heart of men, injurious reasonings issue forth: fornications, thieveries, murders, adulteries, covetings, acts of wickedness.” (Mark 7:20-22)

      So how could God’s perfect Kingdom come from such a source?

      Really, the human heart could no more produce God’s Kingdom than a thistle could produce figs.

      Second, consider the audience Jesus was addressing when he spoke the words found at Luke 17:21.

      The preceding verse reads: “On being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them.” (Luke 17:20)

      The Pharisees were Jesus’ enemies.. Jesus stated that those hypocrites were not going to enter God’s Kingdom. (Matthew 23:13)

      Now if the Pharisees were not to enter God’s Kingdom, could the Kingdom be in their hearts? I don't think so! What, then, did Jesus mean?

      In rendering these words of Jesus, a number of careful Bible translations use the wording that the Kingdom is “among you” or “in the midst of you.”

      How was God’s Kingdom among those people at that time, including the Pharisees?
      Jesus himself, the one to be appointed king of God's kingdom was among them.

      God's word is reliable. I find that it is the truth.
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        Mar 27 2013: I too thought that the Bible spoke truth, until the day came when I wondered why my church rarely spoke of Jesus' teachings, but always relied on Paul and the Old Testament texts. I started studying the teachings of Jesus as a way to be a better Christian. I came away so shocked that I couldn't be a Christian any more. How could a church lie like that? Why?????

        Someone in this thread asked for more information, so I went on-line to get it. There I found that Christians are flooding the internet with Christian versions of Koine Greek to English dictionaries in order to support their contentions. They are using words that weren't even in existence in the 17th century when the KJV came out or in the 15th century when the Gutenberg Press was invented, or the 16th century Reformation. In short, they are lying.

        I had a friend who has a PhD in Theology from Brown. Literacy in ancient Aramaic and Koine Greek (the Bible's language) was required, and as one of his courses, he was required to translate one of the gospels into English. He too was horrified by all of the lies, stopped being a Christian, became an atheist, and he tried, for a time, to make the lies known and the beauty of a message understood. But he learned that those who do not want to see truth will not see it - which, of course, is what Jesus said (paraphrased).

        I no longer have access to the old dictionary. My friend is dead. The book gone. But to continue:

        Luke 17:21 - Jesus says that the kingdom of God is within you. That means it's here now. He said this to the Pharisees - so the kingdom of God was within them too, which is consistent with the first Beatitude where he said "Blessed (one-with/of/walking-with holiness) are the poor in spirit (spiritually ignorant) for theirs is the kingdom of heaven/God. You say the Pharisees were Jesus' enemies, but Jesus said to love your enemies & do good to those who would harm you. He had no enemies.

        The original texts say that heaven is WITHIN
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        Mar 27 2013: If changed texts aren’t part of christianity, how is it that?

        Jesus said, judge not. Christianity says - judge everyone. Be fruit pickers.

        Jesus said "fear not evil". Christianity says - fear evil.

        Jesus said “resist not evil”. Christianity says - turn away from it.

        Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is WITHIN YOU. Christianity says it's OUTSIDE of you and it is where christians go later

        Jesus said do NOT pray in churches. Christians pray in churches.

        Jesus said do NOT pray in public. Christians pray in public.

        Jesus said that even the most spiritually bankrupt (ignorantn/corrupt/evil) are of the kingdom of heaven. Christianity says they're of the kingdom of Satan.

        Jesus said to love your enemies and do good to those who do not love you. Christianity says to correct them, chastise them, or even go to war against them when leaders whom God has placed over you tell you to.

        Jesus said to give unto Caesar that which is Ceasar’s, and give unto God that which is God’s. Christianity says to give unto God that which is Caesar’s (fear) and give unto Caesar that which is god’s (love/allegiance).

        Jesus said to swear no oaths. Christianity swear’s oaths – whether as a Pledge of Allegiance or the oath of service/office/witness/jury duty, etc.

        Jesus said to love others as yourself, for as you do to others, including the least of those among you, you do to God (thus redefining God. Christianity says to debase yourself before those whom God has placed over you – thus to debase God

        Jesus said you are powerful creatures – gods in your own right. What you ask for WILL be given if you will only believe it, you'll see it. Christianity says you are powerless.

        Jesus told you how to use your innate power for your own protection and wellbeing. Christianity says that those who use it are evil.

        Jesus said that YOU are the light of the world. Christianity says that Jesus is.

        Short list, but I think you get the point.
        • W T 100+

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          Mar 27 2013: Gail, alot of what you say is truth.....the Bible teaches that Jesus' followers are the light of the world, the Bible teaches we are to love our enemy (why kill others in wars?), the Bible teaches that we owe our allegiance to God, not a flag or anything man made, etc....

          I walked out of the baptist church after seeing alot of hypocricy and alot of Bible truths twisted to suit the needs of the church leaders. But that did not diminish my respect for God's word.

          And although I am just another human on this planet, no better than anyone else, I make an effort to uphold the teachings of Jesus and live my life in a way that honors God.

          I do not pledge allegiance to any flag, I am neutral when it comes to politics and war, and I know that the ultimate judge of all mankind is the Creator.......who am I to judge anyone?

          If the Bible is God's word, then shouldn't it have a positive effect on those truly try to live up to Godly standards? Shouldn't true Christians be different from those just claiming to be Christian but proving false to the power of God?

          Jesus himself warned: “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits YOU will recognize them." (Matthew 7:15-16)

          I honestly believe that if you are trying to draw close to God, and you feel the Bible is His word, then you should make it a matter of prayer that God show you what the Bible really teaches.......not what men teach under the guise of Christianity.

          Thank you Gail for reading my response. I really appreciated the many points you make and hope others benefit from the eloquent way you have expressed yourself.
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          Apr 6 2013: Gail, I agree with what you say. So, this means what? That Christians are ... not Christians?

          But then, read the NT again - all the woes that Jesus proclaims to Pharisees. Matthew 23 has a few pages of these woes. Ironically, Pharisees were the ones who considered themselves the most righteous, following the Law to the letter. Now, don't these very woes from Matthew 23 apply to many Christians?

          New testament is a very fascinating book. It refers to itself and the story keeps repeating and repeating over and over - in real life. Peter was crucified for preaching it. Paul was beheaded. Even today, people who preach non-violent peace die from violence: Mahatma Gandhi, MLK. It is an amazingly true story. I don't know if it literally happened at that time and place, but it does not matter. It is still a very true story.

          It is very true that the kingdom of heaven is within. God is within as well. If we imagine heaven and hell outside and apply the teachings to other people instead of ourselves, the whole doctrine turns into hypocrisy.
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        Mar 27 2013: Did you know that Aramaic has no future tense? Did you know that Koine Greek has no future tense. Did you know that Hebrew didn't have a future tense equivalent until after WWII?

        So when you read: Matthew 7:2 (where it reads " For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.") or when you read Luke 6:37 ("Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven") you are reading a distortion intentionally built into the text?

        Delete the inserted future tense and you can realize that Jesus is saying that in essence, life is a mirror. If I listen to you, I can see how you have judged yourself and others because there are no secrets for those who know how to see or how to hear (as opposed to those who see without perceiving or hear without understanding).

        In other words, when you say that we are all sinners, I know that you have judged yourself a sinner, thus I know from your own words that I should not trust what you have to say.

        Changes in texts have drastically changed the religion that follows newer editions. These are not translation errors. They are attempts to blind you from your ability to see your own power and inherent perfection.
        • W T 100+

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          Mar 27 2013: So then, do you view humans as perfect?

          What is your definition of perfection?
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          Apr 6 2013: In these instances, perhaps "shall" means "ought" rather than future tense.

          "Do not judge" is one of my favorite parts. It helps me in life immensely. When I refrain from expressing opinions about others, it frees me from bias and often allows to see situations and people "as they are" rather than as I want them to be.

          It also points out that ALL moral judgments are hypocritical. They can only be applied to self, not to others. When I see someone judging others and tell the person "do not judge", I'm judging that person that very moment.
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        • W T 100+

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          Mar 27 2013: Perhaps you do not have full knowledge as to who the God of the Bible is?

          I would like to know what belief system do you follow?
          Who has taught you what you know?
          Where do you get your information?
          Can you provide me with a link or the name of a book?

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