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## Do we really see/live in 3 dimensions? Or is it two highly symmetrical 2 dimensional fractal images?

As we explore this world more and more fractals have become the math of nature, and oddly enough we/some of us here on TED had already gotten rid of math in nature in one of the ted conversations that I started “Is our math wrong?”. One of the main points of the conversation was the idea of where do we start counting?

http://www.ted.com/conversations/13925/is_our_math_wrong_is_it_our_a.html

At the time of this ted conversation I had no clue about fractal dimensions and the only thing I really new about fractals is the 2 Ted Talks. We are pattern thinker, that is what as a species humans do is think in patterns. Our eyes (all 3 eyes) interpret these patterns for us and create the visual image that you see in front of you today. We get one fractal image from the right eye and one fractal image from the left eye, our eyes and brain then bring those two fractal images together and create the 3D yet Non 3D world that we see around us.

This video points out that pretty much everything in Nature is fractal in "nature". One of the key points of this video and fractals at large is also asking the question where do you start counting?

Think of these 2 fractal dimensional images as a stereographs or grams. Most if not all of these images are probably fractals.
http://www.colorstereo.com/

What it seems to me is that we are a collection of fractal codes much like how Mandelbrot"s code combined all of the Julia set's. Our reality is a set of all infinite fractal codes combined... I think

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• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 19 2013: Maybe the most interesting thing about fractals other than their ubiquity in nature is that they can have fractional dimension, rather than the common one, two, three, or whole number n dimensions people typically think about.

Here is a short article written for kids (so no fancy math footwork) explaining how this happens. http://math.rice.edu/~lanius/fractals/dim.html

If you are comfortable with math through logarithms and limits, you can find lots of additional stuff online on the subject.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: Yeah and it certainly makes an interesting twist on us being "multi-dimensional" beings. In fact it makes the statement truth. What I really find interesting is that quantum computing is playing around with the idea of infinity between 0-1. Now we can also take infinity from; 0-1,1-2,2-3,0-3,1-3. I just find that really amazing. And thanks for the link.
• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 19 2013: You mean in the sense that there are an infinite number of numbers between any two numbers? But as soon as we knew about fractions, we knew that. We didn't need fractals for it or quantum computing.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: I didn't I am just learning about fractal dimensions. And yeah that there is an infinite amount of numbers between any 2 numbers I find amazing.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: I went the old fashion route it took it all the way up
• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 19 2013: What fun for you to be thinking about this now, Casey. I have always been involved with math, so I have had the pleasure for my whole life of thinking about some of these ideas!

I am much older than you, but I find great pleasure in studying areas I had never looked at before.

An author you might enjoy who has written a series for laypeople about interesting mathematical ideas is Theoni Pappas. You might check out her work next time you are in a bookstore.

She doesn't write longish essays as, say, Martin Garner did (also wonderful stuff) but rather short 1-3 page things. Nice nuggets for a bus ride or at the breakfast table.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: I was a logic guy got up to meta logic in college. Math was never my thing I never liked the numbers. Which is why I always said logic was math without numbers.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: If you take this theory as true it would also explain why the "masses" say the more symmetrical a person is the more "beautiful" they are supposed to be

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080818-body-symmetry.html
• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 19 2013: The calculations stop pretty early on in pure math. They keep going in applied.

My kids say each eye sees in 2D and the two together allow you to perceive depth. My high school biology was too long ago to remember how eyes work.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: That's taught in school these days? I was never taught that or in research of eyes on how they work came across that. I do know that a 1 eyed man does have some depth perception
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: Googled and found it right away how did I miss that before

Although I am also saying that the 3d is an illusion and only exist because we perceive it that way
• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 19 2013: On that point, the most common scientific argument, I believe, is that we perceive three dimensions but that there are very likely more that we do not perceive.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: All the fractal ones we cant see
• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 19 2013: I wasn't thinking of fractals. I was thinking of things like the theories of extra dimensions that theoretical physicist Lisa Randall writes about in Warped Passages or that Brian Greene might talk about in one of his books.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 19 2013: I wonder if there is a correlation I look them up
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 20 2013: Ok so if our nature is fractal, it would make sense that other life producing dimensions would be fractal. So since we live in what is commonly know as the 3rd dimension. Let's just assume that there is a 4th, 5th, 6th ect. dimension in relation to our 3rd dimension reality. So if there is infinity between any 2 numbers it would stand to reason that there would be a reality of existence of life between our "3rd"dimension and whom ever's "4th" dimension maybe its ours as well? So on an ect. Since it would be just as infinity possible to produce life/reality like ours
• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 20 2013: You will have to go to someone else for this. I don't see our nature as fractal, if you mean humans, Broccoli is kind of fractal.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 20 2013: Check out that last YouTube video in the opening statement
• #### Fritzie -200+

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Mar 20 2013: I can't watch an hour video, but I can see blood vessels as fractal. I don't follow how you move from this to your stuff about life-producing dimensions but will leave that to others.

Have fun!
• #### Romas Blazys

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Apr 11 2013: I have a talent for math. In high school, I learned about 3 dimensions (xyz planes). My dad and I enjoy working on automobiles. I worked 3 dimensions with my mind and my hands. Most people, in my experience, only think into two dimensions like reading text on paper or using a GPS for directions. Do you drive through a hill or over the hill? Pretend that you are a helicopter pilot while driving and notice the 3d nature of the terrain. In simple terms, 2D is like coloring a picture, 3D is like lego toys, 4D is like origami --folding the right part at the right time, and then there is the lovely mirror effect -- you know like NOT putting your left foot in your right shoe.
Fractals in nature are so beautiful; they make the work of men (even skyscrapers) seem plain.

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Mar 20 2013: Well, what if we are actually experiencing a cross-section of the universe instead of the whole. I know it is a bit outside the box, however it makes sense in a way and it might help explain inertia, dark matter and gravity.

It could be that there is a much, much larger universe made up of matter which exists in 3 or more dimensions. All we can see or experience directly is a cross section since we exist on a constantly moving razor's edge of that universe, which we know as now. Any dimensions we perceive are only relevant because we can move within them and movement takes "time".

Also this helps with the conundrum that is the global speed limit of light. Imagine if we were traveling in a direction at the speed of light through this "other" dimension, then the speed limit in any direction we can travel would be proportional to the speed we are traveling currently in the grain of "time". Sort of like a sky diver falling towards earth, you can certainly modify where you are going to land but you aren't going to be flying back to the plane under your own power.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 20 2013: I think you are right on, but that just me personally I have something to add from another conversation but it should make sense here. This would also explain astro projection and the likes.

Also if we are the light, how could we ever measure our self
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 20 2013: From my understanding we are born in ignorance, oddly enough when people say ignorance is bliss I don’t think they mean the ignorance of a new born baby. That is basically saying that we are born with zero axioms for reference or zero relativity. If we are all the same and are one this would be the only way to gain further knowledge of the world around us. The environment that we are raised in (set and setting) we gain references points of our surrounding to help form and understand the reality that is unfolding in front of us. The interesting thing is that since we are all one and we are connected through consciousness information that we may have never learned in this life time is still inside of us. See these coma victims who wake up with weird attributes one of which able to speak a foreign language they never learned.
http://www.oddee.com/item_97859.aspx
This guy hits his head and can now play the piano like Mozart. He says that he sees a pattern in his head/eyes that allows him to play as well as he does.
This information is innately (however amnesia/zero relativity is at birth) in them and through our parents teaching us which patterns to follow or not follow. What’s up or down? Oddly enough this is all arbitrary, what we have been discovering is circles.
"Well I would trust that the Dean is educated enough to understand Einstein's point that any ray of light ( a straight line ) send out will eventually return to its origin and therefore he would understand that there are no "straight lines"" ~Ed Schulte
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 20 2013: Now as Natasha Nikulina has pointed to the image is 0 or a circle or a ring or a torus. When this image is spun/flipped fast enough it looks like a complete sphere or a “ghostly” sphere however when it is slowed down to a relative position it creates a straight line or 1. As we mentioned earlier any ray of light (a straight line) sent out will eventually return to its origin thus completing the circle.

What makes humans so amazing is that we are both the light and the dark/shadow moving as independent self-reflecting/complete circle entities happening at the smallest/slowest movement/vibration/fractal.
• #### Romas Blazys

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Apr 11 2013: "Do we really see/live in 3 dimensions? Or is it two highly symmetrical 2 dimensional fractal images?" Good question. An eye doctor could help you best. I know flies have multiple eyes and each eye works pretty independently: that would be a multifractal perspective. If a person's eyes have 2 d fractal images, maybe something is wrong with the person's eyes. Usually people's eyes work in coordination that is how people have a visual 3 d perception.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 11 2013: "My kids say each eye sees in 2D and the two together allow you to perceive depth. My high school biology was too long ago to remember how eyes work." ~Fritzie Reisner

http://www.brainbashers.com/stereo.asp
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 11 2013: Also remember that the only thing the eye interprets is "different" shades of color.

The eye flips the image so the visible world that you are looking at is a mirror image
• #### ray lepierre

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Apr 8 2013: Hello again , well I would not call it waste but just mere Energy Transformation , as it happens all across the Cosmos, Energy can not be destryed it just changes it state like matter does. Dark Matter and ordinary Matter are forever tethered by super strings of also: Dark Matter/quantum Gravity.
About the EMP shield maybe the Armed Forces might put it to good use since it would take a while to adapt it to every day Life as it happened with "tin foil" remember? it was first used in the pioneering Space Flights of the 60's and now we have it in our Kitchens. Casey is your Work related to Technology?
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 11 2013: I would be what is called a serial entrepreneur, I am certainly in technology biz but probably not what your thinking. But with enough understanding and if you can make it make common sense to me. I have come to realize there is nothing I cant figure out eventually. My problem is I get bored very quickly.
• #### ray lepierre

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Apr 6 2013: The expelling of biological waste from our bodies has nothing to do with my Theory on energy Depletion , that is just that: human waste. By the way in order to fully contain our bodies from Aging/depletion I firmly believe that an artificial dark matter shield can be used for that, an actual evryday use space suit for aging.
Personally I'm about to Patent an EMP shield that I also built using these set of Dark Matter/Space Time Mathematics, our Country needs a truly reliiable EMP shielding for it's Electric Grid/Electronics, at any time our Mother Star the Sun could blast us back to the Stone Age or an Actual Nuclear Blast can do that also, it is frightening but real Casey.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 8 2013: So your saying that this depleting dark matter could not be seen as waste on a universal level? The material world mimics the cosmos

Your EMP shield seems interesting, how ever to mass produce it to the populous it would have to not look like it came from space tre
• #### ray lepierre

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Apr 6 2013: I completely agree with you, the eye has to be trained however when it comes to "Mass" that is where we are missing the most important part of the puzzle and that is the symmetry that exist with our other "Dark Matter half"
a symmetry that comes with an everlasting depletion/exchange between an unseen Dark Matter "Halo" around ALL -including us- that has "Mass" in the Universe, now at this point New Theories/Mathematics can be derived and therefore better ways to build stuff by using our Symmetrical Dark Matter Half, like Fusion or the so far Fabled "Anti Gravity". And yes to your ponderings, Mass as we know it cannot be defined by weight , or the tangible seen/measured kind of weight but also the weight of that other part or it's equivalent in Dark Matter. I would discuss the Formula with you sometime but I believe that would have to happen maybe even in person so I can show you the Proof of it, do you know that current Science is still "Hunting Witches" when it comes to these topics? specially Fusion.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 6 2013: Truth is I think we have the same thoughts as far as matter/dark matter. The difference is I don't distinguish the 2, I think that all that exist is matter even when we can not see it with our own eyes. Now as far as fusion or other atom smashing energy creating devises, I think we are dead wrong. There is only one thing in this material world that has perpetual energy already in it and that is water. Nothing needs to be changed to water to get this perpetual energy. It just a matter of figuring out how to properly harness its property's. Also long as it produces more energy then it consumes then that would be perpetual energy. Which is what we are but, we do put to much chemicals in our body. In your analogy the depleting "dark matter" could be since in human terms as us pooping
• #### ray lepierre

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Apr 5 2013: As far as Dimensions, In my view we are constantly walking/traversing layers of Space-Time which causes our own depletion of energy or better put: Our aging. If we can ever shield ourselves with artificial layers of Dark Matter/Space-Time we could reverse aging or at least delay it a great deal, this also means modifying our own biology of course and adapting our food to compensate for the Loss of our own Dark Matter which we are loosing every second of our lives.
To better illustrate this Theory I did the following: using my technical data I replicated 3 layers of my "Dark Matter algorithm" using just Copper and shielded a regular 1.5 Volt AA battery with it , I placed a second 1.5 Volt AA battery without the Shield and drove in my car for 10 miles - bear in mind that both batteries are not powering anything they were just in my briefcase- using a voltimeter I measured the charges and found: that the unshielded battery had a charge of 1.48 Volts and the "Space-Time Shielded" same AA battery remained intact at 1.5 Volts. I'm sure that the depreciation of Voltage is not really significant for the common person but for me it was a shock , what happen to the stored electrons in the unshielded battery? they leaked out all of a sudden? was it a defective battery? is this happening all around us in everyday Life and nobody notices it?
is it the fact that we can just simply recharge them with alternators or simple home chargers? WHAT THE DEVIL are these scientist currently doing? where is the Progress of Science? why isn't anybody talking about these losses of energy caused by "The invisible Interaction of Dark Matter"
We live in a Fluid Universe, a Sea of Dark Matter that is just waiting to be Sailed
• #### ray lepierre

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Apr 5 2013: Not a problem I've been busy too Casey. Well I like to build things/perform actual experiments in order to disprove my own Theories, Using this Equation I have built a device which allows me to see structures NOt visible to the Human eye using what I call a "dark matter algorithm" , I have strong evidence to support my Mathematical Calculations that would just blow any Scientist's mind. You see the problem that we have right now is that current Science already gave up on the search for a defined Space-Time Equation - which was the original aim of Quantum Mechanics-, We have gotten too comfortable with splitting atoms to make energy or to create weapons that can mass destruct us more effectively every time than actually tackling the core of all Scientific research which is the "other invisible half of the Dirac Sea". Space-time gets even more misunderstood pass the equations of Maxwel and Minkowski,however Max Planck and Einstein gave us a Hint that is still there and that is the notion of an entertwined Space-time, ok then why not? I asked myself once, why not an actual area - which can also be called a quantum manifold- that there existed before the Big Bang which instead of having all visible matter that there will ever exist also had All the Dark Matter that there is too, with a twist: both are symmetrically identical and fully interactive for all eternity , in all sizes, in all directions always conserving the same gravitational values Constant, these gravitational values are not the Newtonian Notions that current Science has taught us so far.
I have funded my research myself for years and I can tell you that yes as Einstein well sai it: Space and Time are 1 not 2 separate entities or mathematical variables they both make up a fabulous "engine-like" structure that is what actually sits at the heart of All coalesced Matter from Subatomic Particles, Stars up to the Biggest Objects in the Universe
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 6 2013: I feel like you are implying somethings and this refers back to the fact that the equation is 1. What if all separation is only in the eye " Using this Equation I have built a device which allows me to see structures NOt visible to the Human eye using what I call a "dark matter algorithm". What if we can train or untrain our eye to see not only that there is no separation but also see the subatomic partials? What if mass as defined by "weight" is the wrong way to look at mass?
• #### ray lepierre

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Mar 29 2013: Gilgameshgolem from the Guardian posting , Greetings Casey; Regarding your view on Fractals or If I am not mistaken "the Fractal Nature of Matter"? Well I agree in part that We live in a 3 Dimensional Observable part of the Universe or I should better say : a Fraction of what our Human senses allow us to observe and therefore analyze and study.
When you talk about Fractals the notion of Riemannian Geometry comes immediately to my mind since it was Riemann the one that first posed the idea of a universal mathematically expressable form. here on Earth We do have 2 big problems that will hinder our knowledge of a 4th Dimension which I call Space-Time:
1- our proximity to the Sun and
2- our petty quarrels as Species (these include:religion, race, pseudo-science, economics and the folly of Fossil Fuels) ... Why?
The closeness to our own Life Giving Star has deprived our human eyes (though Natural Selection) of the perception of certain wavelenghts in the spectrum of Light that otherwise would allow us to observe the cobweb of Dark Matter that expands in all directions and which even permeates through us -as it does through subatomic particles-

Mathematically the Equation for the Primordial "Genesis" would definetely have to include a mirror image of Dark Matter indeed for a constant Algorythm(fractal) to Work, This is the basis for Quantum Gravity and I would be glad to put it in formulas. I have worked on a Dark Matter general formula eversince we acquired the wmap data and my findings are mindboggling , too bad NASA has overlooked the best part of it despite showering it's "Scientists" with billions of dollars.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 5 2013: Sorry It has taken me so long to get back to you what is your math mathematical equation for dark matter?
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Apr 5 2013: Oh and thank you for joining me and fellow tedsters

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Mar 20 2013: No we don't. Retina starts the process of vision where a 2-D visual array is the input. Biologically, this is sight and it is 2-D visual information. The process of vision is of higher order than sight where different parts of visual system of the brain modify the 2-D sight in to 2.5 D fractals by adding textural information and ultimately the diffrential perspective of two eyes is processed to add 'depth' field and brain perceives it as 3-D.
The spacial dimensions are mathematical abstractions. Nature does not follow that abstraction. If one maintains that true integer dimensions are perfect then most of nature is imperfect. You cannot find a truly one, two or three dimensional objects in physical reality rather it is replete with fractals. So it is natural that brain, which is a physical machine of perception must have evolved to handle fractals.
I don't think human brain can perceive any more than 3 spacial dimensions simply because it evolved in an environment where it is good enough to perceive 3D objects. If you consider time as a fourth dimension, human brain cannot perceive it simply because we move in speeds way slower than that of photons. If we evolved in an environment where it were possible or necessary to maneuver at speeds, say 0.9c or 0.99c, our brain could have the ability to perceive space time.
For all higher dimensions, it will be mathematical abstractions and beyond human perception as reality.
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 20 2013: Ok so if our nature is fractal which I beleive you are agreeing with, it would make sense that other life producing dimensions would be fractal. So since we live in what is commonly know as the 3rd dimension. Let's just assume that there is a 4th, 5th, 6th ect. dimension in relation to our 3rd dimension reality. So if there is infinity between any 2 numbers it would stand to reason that there would be a reality of existence of life between our "3rd"dimension and whom ever's "4th" dimension maybe its ours as well? So on an ect. Since it would be just as infinity possible to produce life/reality like ours

What if our actual dimension is 3.14 since that is where we hit infinity again? Within Infinity
• #### Casey Christofaris10+

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Mar 20 2013: And I think that is what this is basically saying