aladine dhiabi

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Is it necessary to have a system of punishment/reward?

It is one of the biggest issues that am living now, the fact of that we have to do something because we must do it, because we are afraid either of being punished or not being rewarded (Fear/Greed)
is it really necessary to live like that ?
law, religion, school, works, and all the other life issues are based on that system, and somehow you found yourself obliged to obey it too ...
what do you think ?

thank's

  • Mar 14 2013: This "system" is just an extension of how all animals function and learn. If we develop a much better, much more complete understanding of human behavior we might one day be able to eliminate imposed punishment, but that will be far in the future.

    As we develop machines that learn, with no need for punishment or reward, machine learning processes might shed some new light on human learning as well.
  • Mar 18 2013: Absolutely. If we didn't get paid to go to work, we wouldn't go. If we didn't get fired for not going to work, we wouldn't have a reason to work. It's not a perfect system, but it's effective until someone goes overboard.
  • Mar 16 2013: I was just talking about opoerant conditioning. "Isn't embarrassment a punishment? My big joy in training was to teach my cattle to come to and bunch up near me when blowing a whistle.
  • Mar 14 2013: This is part of operant conditioning, and that is how we train people or animals. Would you really like to drive on a highway where everyone does their own things? Maybe it would help on the overpopulation problem, but I don't see it as a good idea if I am on the road with you doing your own thing. Many rules have rational reasons. As the population expands around here more people are living on urban size plots of land in what used to be rural areas. They don't have so many rules as the cities do. Do you really want a neighbor wit 8 pit bulls or Rotweillers trained to be aggressive by an idiot in the house next door? I still remember one young pregnant woman coming by my office who was walking to get her mail at the trailor park when a neighbor's dog knnocked her down and started chewing on her bottom. These people were all renters, and the owner of the dog as is typical of his type owned a dog, owned an old truck, and had lost his job. Sounds like a country and western song. Why sue someone like this? - you can't get blood out of a turnip. Rich people rarely own vicious dogs.
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      Mar 15 2013: that's exactly what i want to know,
      why you are 100% sure that people will do a bad behavior ?
      is it impossible that we all drive in that highway safely ?
      all those bad behavior that we saw today and since the beginning of the first civilization are somehow a result of that system, when someone think that he is gonna be punished or not being rewarded he will start to find another way to avoid those results and then bad things start to happened, that's why i believe that removing that system will ensure our freedom, equality and happiness .

      You may say that if everyone act "good" then this is a result of being afraid of something (punishment) or willing to get something (reward)
      well, maybe it's true, but it's very different, fear of being embarrassed is not the same fear of being punished, embarrassment is a feeling that we develop by our own during our own experiences, a good example for that is feeling embarrassed when we are naked with strange people, so based on that,
      why is it impossible to develop an "embarrassment" system that protect us all from each other and in the same time we can all live the way we want to ?

      thank you
      • Mar 18 2013: Because if we all lived the way we wanted to, without any punishment, crime would be through the roof. People aren't responsible. That's been proven through trial and error a million times. People drink and drive, they steal, they kill, and they need to be punished for it. Like the highway example, sure, maybe some people would drive okay, but others would be speeding their assess off to impress people, and if that person collides with someone or something then another ten or twenty cars could add to the pile before anyone can react.
  • Mar 13 2013: This is interesting but very complex issue.

    In theory we can have a system where people are free to do what they like and there is no need for punishment/reward.

    In reality, society typically motivates people by money to do work they would otherwise not do. Since we yet don't have unlimited resources we need to distribute the wealth as a reward based on people's effort and results?

    We need law and punishment in order to discourage and prevent behavior that hurts individuals or the society. However I think we need to put much more effort into prevention and make the punishment reasonable and fair.

    At school, it's about grading students thou I am not sure if we are rewarding students fairly and accurately. I think education will go through changes to give students more opportunities to succeed.
    • Mar 18 2013: On the topic of schools, I would say that there is a reason that we are working on those four or five main categories. It's because they are essentially stepping stones that you can combine and build off of for a career. If you're good at sports or art, good for you, but that's not the point of school. Join an art club or a sports team if you would like, but people saying school is being unfair by only measuring intelligence is like saying its unfair to fire a worker that's terrible at their job because they are a nice guy or they have nice hair.