- Sharon Fitzpatrick
- Santa Barbara, CA
- United States
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Schools are terrible places for children.
In the name of civilization we lock up our children for seven to twelve hours each weekday..subjecting them to experiences that mark them for the rest of their lives...the least we could do is give them a fair chance and give them school when they have a choice, in college, where they can defend themselves.
Tim Bakker
Certainly if the school had been better at encouraging creativity - rather than being a place of bullying, nasty teachers and mostly people who just didn't want to be there (and that was just the teachers) I'd probably have thrived better - certainly Foundation & University were better, although still academe has a real problem with myopic administration and resistance to new ideas...(ask my partner, an ex-Reader about that!)
I mostly taught myself how to think by reading and questioning the world and adults. School was never about thinking, it was about conforming. Later education was more about thinking, but ironic as by then the damage is done, and no-one wants to break-out. Or even see why they should?
You can blame it on the school, but it was a good school in a good area, very middle class. But it had no real soul, no art, no creativity and certainly I can say 95% of what I was taught I've either found to be actually wrong, useless or unhelpful. I get more education reading or talking to friends and partners and debating ideas than I ever did at school which was all about passing tests. Nothing more.
I envy those other systems where you get to choose - in fact one of those early expermental schools - Peper Harrow was near where this school was. Sadly never got that far.
Sumr Ali
I do agree that schools foster more abuse and trauma than learning or "social development." Regardless of the anti-bullying hype, the truth is that most schools don't do anything until a kid commits suicide. Then they mourn for a few weeks and act like things are going to change, but never actually take action to ensure that it does. I find this sickening to even admit, but the truth is, anti-bullying is a fad. We're all lifesaving heroes who are going to make a difference in the world for a few weeks after something horrible happens, but once the media finds a new story, nobody cares anymore.
The most they'll do is run a nice little seminar or two. An inspirational speaker will visit the school and talk to the student body about the importance of loving each other, and as pretty as their words are, they don't do jack. I've sat through many such school assemblies and you know how much change I saw in my school? None. The only people who actually took something from the speech were those who weren't bullies anyway.
Kids don't respond to kindness or flowery inspirational speeches, they respond to fear and to punishment. My school claimed to have a zero-tolerance bullying policy and I only wish they had actually stood behind it. Bullying should be punishable by expulsion. No lectures, no assemblies, no "kids will be kids", one strike and you are out. Maybe that will teach children to respect other human beings instead of putting them through so much emotional torture that they either commit suicide or go through the rest of their life bearing the mental and maybe even physical scars of the abuse.
It's not a small matter, and it isn't a joke. So why do we treat it as something that can be fixed with a slap on the wrist?
andrew dixon
Alex Carney
I'm not saying I disagree with you I'm just saying that you should try to look at things from a victims shoes...
andrew dixon
andrew dixon
andy
Alex Carney
Pabitra Mukhopadhyay 30+
Before a baby is born the parents flock the schools, learn the nursery rhymes that the babies never hear from their parents or grand parents in their native languages and plan life for the contingency. From as young as 2 years they are taken to play schools where half qualified unprofessional teachers systematically impair children's imagination, spontaneity and free mental growth.
Then right from junior school children are taught by parents and peers to be future scientist, doctor or engineer - not an artist, a musician or a writer because these are 'risky' professions. The society cares a toot what the child wants.
Into the senior school or grad study the child is already a edu-bot who is well trained to be a servant. For enlightened educated youth of India, working a job is all that matters and entrepreneurship is a big no-no.
If a child survives the Indian Education system till the age of 24/25 the youth has an ego as high and static as the Everest and a keenness to conform almost to the point of obsession.
Indian students are so intelligent that their brightness can only be properly appreciated in the USA or Europe and half billion near illiterate rural population are just not worthy enough of that brilliance.
I hope Random Chance can take it a little less hard on his fellow men.
Random Chance 30+
could you please explain your comment,"I hope Random Chance can take it a little less hard on his fellow men."
I'm not sure I understand to what you are referring.
To me it seems that we are both saying the same thing, as you call yours, "the Indian nightmare."
I may seem harsh but at times being honest and telling the truth is harsh.
It is only humans who put good and bad with truth, when truth is simply the truth.
It is still. The Truth.
But, at times, the Truth,
can be so ruthless, it appears truthless,
But it is still the Truth.
As George Orwell said, "
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
I do strongly believe being successful in school in America is really about learning how to be successful in a corrupt system and that has to lead to becoming corrupt as an individual.
That is just about the only way to be successful in such a system.
There are less options every year for average folk to survive, grow and prosper, in safety, freedom, privacy and community. Today it is all about spying, training, specializing and so on.
Where do you and I differ? Or do we? Maybe I am more dense than even I know.
Pabitra Mukhopadhyay 30+
I mean to say that your countrymen are not alone as far as affected by a questionable education system, Indians, I feel, are suffering too.
In essence we don't differ at all.
Random Chance 30+
and they are brainwashed into what to believe and how to behave,
and educated in how to be successful in a corrupt system as opposed to
being taught how to change or eliminate that corrupt system,
then yes, they are horrible places for children.
But, their parents have been so thoroughly brainwashed and threatened into subservience,
that they will readily crow, "it's for the good of the children."
They say that about most all the methods they use to abuse the psyches of their young children,
beginning with religious upbringings and belief in entities that don't exist.
Amerikans are big on teaching and passing on neurosis.
They start with the Tooth Fairy, move on to the Easter Bunny, A big pumpkin, Santa Claus,
Cupid and eventually the big one - God.
Fits right in with everything that is happening today, being spied on 24/7 as in God is always watching you.
And like little children, the parents do nothing when their kids are molested by TSA agents while they are being trained
(educated) in what life will be like for them in the new Nazi Fascist Regime called Amerika.
It's all for the good of the children so I would think your comments about school are a bit harsh.
Let's not look at the reality of what is really happening.
Some call that optimism instead of wanting the truth.
Joseph Burdi
What you call wanting for truth I feel is more pushing a conspiracy that has only few of it's points proven.
Random Chance 30+
You do not consider brainwashing abuse? Why not?
It is lying and lying turns a person against themselves, against their own instincts and senses, those very things we have complete when we are born, before they are abused by others.
Babies and young children lack experience in how to use and gain trust in their own senses and instincts, which they are supposed to be able to trust. Turning a child against that is abuse.
Consider: an animal that doesn't trust its own instincts will perish and will perish very soon as food for another animal.
The human that doesn't trust its own instincts will become mentally ill and may go insane eventually.
When you take a child's psyche and split it from itself, you are splitting the child from themselves and I consider that extreme child abuse.
You said religion can provide children with hope but hope is another false concept among many that Americans worship. Believing in and worshiping lies (neurosis) is to be mentally ill. Why one would do such a thing is based in a society that is also sick.
"Molested by TSA agents" is not harsh at all. That is exactly what has happened and will continue to happen. May I frisk your young children, please?" They may exhibit terrorist features that I need to thoroughly check on, without you protecting them. Imagine how that also abuses the child who undergoes it and those who witness it? They are learning what Fascism is like, what it looks like and how it will feel.
You end with: "What you call wanting for truth I feel is more pushing a conspiracy that has only few of it's points proven."
Quote George Bush: "We cannot wait for the final proof." Well, we got the final proof. There never were any WMD's. Never. I do not trust any thing any authority says today, unless they prove it. If you do, then I think you are a willing fool who does not want, nor value truth because of what it means and what it demands: action, change.
With people in America, who think as you do, they are doomed. IMHO
Joseph Burdi
Joseph Burdi
Many schools in many places have systems that are not fully beneficial for the student to properly grow and learn as education is supposed to do. And all have ranking and hierarchal systems that make our students have struggle for competition and an innate hatred and contempt for those who do better. I am a student myself and I feel both worthless and angry when I see myself not receiving the marks I believe I could get. School is subjective; that is one of the major problems. The teacher decides upon the lessons and the things that are right, so students who find ther own way to do things, to come up with answers that work and solutions that are easier, are shot down for the traditional and "Scholarly" methods. Children beside other children are savages; we all are when young. We have no filter, no sense of morality, and no knowledge the effects we have on others. We simply see and react; often in horrible ways of supporting the alpha who makes the beta inferior and lets him or her know it.
However, the ida of a forced education is not terrible. Hobbes said that without some social order, we would descend into unending conflict steming from greed and ignorance. This is true. This is partially the reason for higher crime rates in uneducated areas; they do what it takes to survive because society prevents them the luxury of living. Education, in our world, is the tool for life. No one has ever found a negative to education, simply to schools and people. Mostly people. We have to learn a bit of everything because the world is not two-dimensional. We cannot find work that requires only algebra, only chemistry, only writing, only speaking; they intermingle freely. That is partially why college fails, unlike you presume. We are taught singularly but the would is a place of multiples.
School is NOT terrible. It is a benevolent idea, it has no capacity to be good or bad. We make it so.
Matthew Leonard
I agree that they are being subjected “to experiences that mark them for the rest of their lives” These are both positive and negative experiences. I, myself, was subject to many negative experiences while growing up. These many times were not because of anything that I did, or anything that I was, but just because I was. Does that mean that these unfortunate experiences marked me? – YES! Does that mean that I should let them define my existence? No. But they do because it was part of my past and part of what made me who I am today.
There are cases where our students are not given a chance. These are failures for many. These include failures by the student themselves, their parents, the school educators and administrators, and society as a whole. One cannot pin it all onto one party. But as a society it is our job to first see a problem and then to fix it. I feel that it will not be something that will change overnight, but it must change.
There are many that just like Shane, who have frustration in their past. They cannot allow their past to define their future. That is what he is talking about. We have survived, we have thrived both because of what happened and in spite of it.
Andrew Magdy Kamal
Mena Sun
I agree with you that children should have more choice in what they get to learn, but the idea that K-12 schooling as a whole is terrible is definitely untrue.
The point of "forcing" kids to learn certain subjects when they are in middle and high school is for them to find their passions. How is one supposed to choose what they want to learn if they haven't been exposed to anything to choose from? There are some that realize they wish to go into the arts or science very young and they can choose specialized schools for that, but for the rest of the general population, "forced subjects" are needed.
It is a shame however that grades are so important for one to get into college or seem intelligent, because the point really should be to learn rather than get a certain mark or appear well versed in everything. This is a factor I also have big problem with.
As far as the social aspects of schooling making schooling terrible, bullies exist no matter where you go. They move from school hallways to high rise buildings, laboratories, etc. I'm not saying it is okay at all for children to experience bullying in schooling, but I'm simply saying that it shouldn't be the sole reason why kids shouldn't be forced to go to school since they will unfortunately experience it nearly everywhere no matter what they do.
Robert Winner 50+
When new electronics come out my grandkids pick it up almost immediately while I at a older age struggle. They have less obstructions to learning such as preconcieved notions. If I introduced English, Spanish, and French into the house and you are exposed to them at birth ... you would speak all three. However if I bring them into your home at your age of seventy it would be a hard task indeed to learn all three languages.
By waiting until college age to begin the process we would impose a handicap that would be extremely difficult to overcome.
Schools are neither good or bad. Schools simply provide instructors that expose you to an opportunity to learn. We each have good and bad experiences associated with schools. It is what we make of the opportunities that decide who we become and what we make of ourselves. Blaming schools or others for our woes is not a resolution. We are the masters of our fate.
I wish you well. Bob.
greg dahlen 20+
You might be interested in the masai people of kenya, they have done away with school, they do live very simply in dung huts, everybody herds cattle and they live on milk and beef. When you live simply like that, you might not need school.
SAJI ABRAHAM VARGHESE
kartik khatri
Colleen Steen 500+
It seems like you are making a very broad statement, and I do not agree that "schools are terrible places for children". It depends on the school, the teachers, the parents, and the children. We all learn differently. I prefer hands on learning, and while I was impatient with the classroom setting, I cannot say that it was a "terrible place". Many people prefer classrooms, the structure of formal education, and thrive in that environment. Education in all forms can always be tweaked and improved:>)
Pabitra Mukhopadhyay 30+
The whole things is so adultly boring. There is nothing other than chairs to sit, nothing other than same books to read and the most terrible thing is you cannot just leave and go home or play.
And you know what, everybody reads the same book!
Children have no rights. So unfair.
Raam Anand
Thank you.
Susan Brooks
Don Wesley 50+
I think it is maybe obvious, that it depends, in part on the schools that we choose.
Mothers or Fathers can stay home and teach if they choose.
The spectrum of choice was and is very wide and somewhat choppy however.
In Montreal, the Protestant Schools [during the war years and more] had many different streams to accommodate different interests and aptitudes and also left time for non-structured learning.
Science, Trades, Latin for Medicine and so on. Home economics and so on.
Some parents sent their children to Secretarial Schools and Cooking Schools.
The city was filled with schools and churches.
Some children did attend church-schools for those who would work in them.
Some father’s had shoe repair stores and so on.
I took private lessons to play the piano and private lessons to lessons to learn Spanish
The jobs after school also were learning opportunities.
The choices in fact were awesome.
The Idea that “Schools are terrible places for children,” maybe true now, but it wasn’t when I went to school.
It was unlawful not to attend school; and that was good thinking.
My mother had me learn to read before I was forced to go.
Mothers were very creative back then.
Chase Fox
Don Wesley 50+
Juliette Zahn 50+
Josh S
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Don Wesley 50+
Linda Lindsey
Fortunately good things can be found in school. Good teachers, resources, good friends....but school itself is set up to fulfill a need the world no longer has.
Education and school are not the same thing!
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Juliette Zahn 50+
Fritzie Reisner 100+
In fact schools vary widely in the pedagogies they have in place and even in how students are treated. Many assumptions ignore the variety. Some students learn easily in a variety of contexts and others shut down at the smallest obstacle.
I agree that there is no place for bullying or intimidation in schools.
Don Wesley 50+