- Patricia Ruvalcaba
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How can SOLEs be implemented without causing students to shun necessary but "boring" skills?
I remember when I was in 8th grade and a classmate asked me point-black what was the purpose of geography. Let me tell you, my answer of "so you know the climate of the country you are visiting or where is it" was utter rubish - both to my classmate and to me, but that was the only thing I could think of that she could actually relate to (two months later, she move to New Zealand).
In school, we are taught many things that we may not WANT to know, but that we NEED to know. Examples: grammar, composition, history, geography, mental maths, etc. Also, there are also many subjects for which we know the bare minimum (learnt at school) because we never give ourselves the time to learn about even if we know they are important (not many people actually read their country's constitution) or interesting (ethics, philosophy, art, etc.)
So... how ca SOLEs include these subjects without going against their principle (learning through self-motivation, not through imposition)
Joshua Emmons
Grammar (or, more generally, communication) cannot be easily "outsourced" to a computer. But in the examples given by the talk, children taught themselves the necessary language skills in order to interact with the computer. In other words, the computer itself was a big enough reward to make investment in that "boring" skill worth while.
Also note the perceived "boringness" of an area of study seems to be related to the question asked of the SOLE. The example given from the talk: asking about the abstract tangent of an angle is uninteresting. Asking about the trajectory of an asteroid that may or may not hit earth is interesting.
Jennifer Nykanen
Paul Gowan
"It is impossible to predict which concrete bits of knowledge will be useful in the future. Those who want to raise standards or "get back to basics" always try to implement their programs in terms of fixed curricula and those curricula inevitably run into problems when they try to get very specific about just what concrete bits they specify students should swallow. The point they miss is that what matters is not how well students can retain knowledge, but how well they can apply it.
We cannot create meaningful change by promulgating lists of knowledge. We must concern ourselves with how students should learn. How knowledge is acquired matters as much as what is acquired. When knowledge is acquired in service of a goal, it remains forever linked to that goal."
Source: Engines for Education http://www.engines4ed.org/hyperbook/nodes/NODE-74-pg.html
Your question was posed and answered near the end of the following video.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKchzrCepbU)
Brussels? Who is Brussels?
Paul Gowan
Certainly, one doesn"t want one's children to become like the Eloi in 'The Time Machine' by H.G. Wells that can"t read or write because audiobooks, video and speech recognition computer companions did it for them. I think the ancient Greeks said something similar about education reform but I don't remember. I don"t know the works of Homer or Petronius by heart.Well, I did learn some myth about a mill Hamlet had.
Dr. Roger Schank often points out how solving quadratic equations is taught to everyone in high school but very few people ever use it after high school. Then there is all the trivia one's personal interests accumulate.
Dr. Schank also pointed out how children will keep up with the Joneses (should that be a concern?) in various ways including peer pressure, but also through exploring their own interests with just-in-time educational simulations. There are ways to design tthings so that you learn grammar in a new way as part of doing something you like. Both Mr. Fuller and Mr. Schank point out that if you design things properly, you will have a hard time keeping up. Have you ever had a child ask you a question like "Why is the sky bliue?"
If you want to read "Great Books of the Western World", more power to you. Democracy requires an educated citizenry as one of the editors wrote.
One educational strategy can be found in the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey"
P.s. Did you finish your brussel sprouts?
Jim White
Consider the case that Mitra presented in which the children learned about microbiology from material written in English. Here was a task that was so hard that the children received little inherent reward from studying it - one of the "boring" skills situations you're concerned about. The solution was to arrange for a teacher (who knew nothing of the subject or computer skills herself) to pay attention to the children and praise them for pursuing such a difficult problem. With such encouragement children will succeed in solving even ridiculously difficult problems.
Jeff Normann
If you open with a question instead of with presenting a body of knowledge, then a student's curiosity is engaged, and you've pretty much won.
Also, in my experience of teaching, whether you lead with questions or with knowledge, if students are interested in most of what you give them, then they will trust you enough to take a bit extra on faith.
Robert Winner 50+
Math: Using different shape containers use math formula to tell how much water it will hold and then do it for the proof set. Using shadows tell the height of the flag pole. In short apply the math.
In English: Allow them to act out their favorite scene .... they will recall all of the mini plays and thus learn more .. and this will inspire them to read other sections and hopefully read other associated stories. There is nothing wrong with going outside to do the "act outs" so they can cheer, laugh, and interact.
Running out of space. Self organized learning environments can only occur when the instructor allows and encourages it. If you watch the younger kids at recess they will tell you their interests ... use that and build on it.
Johnny you run like Jim Thorpe and walk off. Amy you have the poise of Grace Kelly. Tommy you are as strong as Hercules. Kathy you settled that argument with the talents of a Congelesa Rice.
I bet that some of them will go home and look up the person you compared them to. You plant the seeds, allow them to water, and nurture it.
I wish you well. Bob.
Gina Clifford 500+
So, I say trust that they will learn. Take a look at William Kamkwamba's TED talks (http://www.ted.com/talks/william_kamkwamba_on_building_a_windmill.html) -he taught himself physics and electronic circuitry from a book written in English even though he didn't speak English. That's all the evidence I need to know that children can and will learn everything they need to know if they're interested. Let's not squelch that passion for learning and we won't need to worry about whether or not they're 'learning'.
Hendirk Smeenk
Let them go online and look the why people have learned geography.
And get yourself out of the way.
Adam Stevens
Hendirk Smeenk
Now ontopic, have you been studying sugata mitra? it looks like not. He puts computer in noway and then get out of the way of learning as fast as possible.
Thank you paul lightfoot for wasting my time to post 5 sentence superficial.
John Gianino
Theodore A. Hoppe 200+
Conrad Wolfram addresses this by explaining how it applies to the learning of math. "What do we mean when we say we're doing math, or educating people to do math? Well, I think it's about four steps, roughly speaking, starting with posing the right question. What is it that we want to ask? What is it we're trying to find out here? And this is the thing most screwed up in the outside world, beyond virtually any other part of doing math. People ask the wrong question, and surprisingly enough, they get the wrong answer,"
http://www.ted.com/talks/conrad_wolfram_teaching_kids_real_math_with_computers.html
edulover learner 10+
Phillip Beynon
Patricia Ruvalcaba
Phillip Beynon
Jeroen Simons
You ask what good geopolitics is to mechanical engineers? What if that engineer was going to work in the middle east? What good is math to a cosmetologist? I would't have my hair died by one that doesn't understand proportions.
You're absolutely right about one thing though: children nowadays grow up with all the information or computing power they would ever need within the click of a mouse or the swipe of a finger. Learning how to reach the correct information should indeed also be a big part of what they learn. This undoubtedly is a quite useful skill for anyone on any job.
Who decides what to teach and to whom? I think the policymakers allover the world will decide about that. The only thing I hope is that their decisions will give enough freedom for the teachers to motivate and coach pupils as Sugata Mitra showed. He proved to me that in powerful learning environments anyone can learn anything.
Robert Lipscombe
Through the concept of facilitated communication and positive reinforcement, our child self-motivated to varying degrees up through his lower grade ranks with above average results.
Point, this I believe was an earlier example of SOLE on his behalf via efforts in special education systems in attempts to enhance the cognitive and retentive outcomes for him (testing). Well, it has flourished thankfully.
The boring skills simply become part and parcel, so long as they are integrated into "facilitation". Of course, mentors are essential...for without the human element it appears, all falls down.
John Locke
Students need to start shouldering more responsibility for their own education and this, in my opinion, can only be obtained if we undergo a cultural revolution where learning and education is embraced and desired. Our society is vain; most people care about looks, other's opinions, material possessions, or any number of things instead of actually learning and bettering themselves. If we can change the way we look at education, we can begin to see amazing results.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
As much as that, though, I think many people dislike being evaluated on their understanding and prefer to study in settings in which they don't have to deal with being assessed on their understanding by others.
John Locke
I am not saying every student is like this, but a large portion of students are and if overall education standards are going to be improved, everyone needs to improve. And, I believe that this improvement can come from a shift in culture.
As for the SOLE program, in my opinion, it seems like a great idea. We have a similar program at my school for a few classes that seem to have great results. But, SOLE definitely has limitations on the subjects that could be used with. For instance, last year in math, we had a book that was all about discovering previous theorems and principles by doing activities. Now, this may sound like a great idea, but the majority of my class, including myself, did not like the new style of learning.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
I think in a SOLE type program, students are far more likely to take in information in the traditional way, by reading or listening to how other people explain things rather than by the discovery method you did not prefer.
Could I ask which math text you used? I sat on my district's materials adoption committee for math some years ago and so know quite a few of these books.
John Locke
Now I am in Honors Algebra II. This text book that we use is very good at helping students study by themselves. We still use the traditional method of teaching (as we do in almost every one of our classes) but the textbook promotes self studying rather than "discovering". By the way, the math book in Hon Alg II that we use is
College Algebra and Trigonometry (4th Edition)
By: David I. Schneider (Author), John Hornsby (Author) and Margaret L. Lial (Author)
Fritzie Reisner 100+
pat gilbert 50+
Patricia Ruvalcaba
pat gilbert 50+
How many know the definition of a preposition? yet what percentage of text are prepositions? therefore what percentage of ignorance/stupidity of the text?
How many think Abraham Lincoln was a good guy who freed the slaves? What is the take in the recent movie?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
The greater challenge, I think, is how kids will figure out whether what they are reading online is actually valid or rather mistake or misrepresentation.
pat gilbert 50+
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Patricia Ruvalcaba
Quoting you, "The teachers could put forward a selection of enticing questions that happen to require particular vital skills for later problems and subjects"
I still cannot think of an enticing question that will lead to students learning to conjugate.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Another area that can be great fun is sometimes called "natural language". There are puzzlers to be decoded that depend on recognizing language patterns.
Gail . 50+
Just like if I couldn't get a driver's license unless I knew how to read - I would want to learn how to read. Mitra speaks of trusting natural curiosity and natural propensity to learn and allowing education to direct itself in order to serve the student first, the community second, and the nation or fiscal paradigm last. This flies in the face of the current educational paradigm.