- John Locke
- New York, NY
- United States
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Education: Starting Early
As a student, I understand the inefficiencies of public school much better than possibly anyone else as I currently spend every day in these time-wasting buildings. Now, I am not a lazy student, nor am I afraid of hard work or learning. In fact, I enjoy a challenge, enjoy learning, and embrace hard work as a necessary step to success.
So why am I calling school a waste of time? Well, despite the millions of dollars that the government pumps into our education each year, the U.S. is still lagging in education internationally.
Why is this? Is it because of social media, a lack of interest, bad teachers, a bad curriculum, or some other crazy reason that has yet to be identified?
No! The answer, to me, is quite simple. During the time when children are in their peak age of learning, from age 3-10, they sit in front of a TV watching some silly show or they sit in a classroom coloring inside the lines because learning other things is "too difficult". We are WASTING away the small window of time when children's potential to learn is practically limitless! And we do it all under the pretense that they are not able to comprehend concepts like multiplication or physics.
But, this detrimental flaw in our logic is having catastrophic effects on the education of the country as a whole. Our country sees bad test results and instead of fixing the root of the problem, elementary schooling, they pour their money into upper levels of education. This makes no sense!
By increasing the demand and difficulty of the curriculum in elementary schooling when students are extremely open to new, difficult concepts, the level of education that can be achieved during high school will be much much greater than it currently is.
Why do we attempt to teach high schoolers a new language when they could learn it twice as fast in elementary school? Why don't we teach 1st greaders multiplication? We have a clear path towards educational improvement and yet we refuse to act!
Robert Winner 50+
We must also see the benefit of the best teacher being at the lower level. K thru 8 is the basis of everything that follows. Without that foundation the high school teachers must "unteach" bad habits and mis-information prior to entering new areas.
Todays third grade is my days 5th grade. Many kids take physics by their soph and sr years where I saw physics in college. Times change. Most parents cannot help their kids with homework. I question the value of homework. I think in most part it is a means of giving points to keep from failing a student who is doing poorly. Bad policy.
As you can tell I love discussing this subject and appreciate your time in asking and evaluating the replies.
I wish you well. Bob.
John Gianino
Gavin Scott
Having watched pretty much every TED talk on education as well as doing loads of other research, the most disturbing facts were probably highlighted by the Fordham Institute in their report from September 2011
http://edexcellencemedia.net/publications/2011/20110920_HighFlyers/Do_High_Flyers_Maintain_Their_Altitude_FINAL.pdf
The key points would be:
"Students below 70 percentile in grade 3 reading and math will rarely catch up" in Fact: "children who performed in the bottom 1/3 in reading or math in grade 3 had less than a 1% chance of being high achievers by grade 8"
That's a scary thought.
The education system in most countries is too stiff, following a single track with almost no way to catch up and thus ruining a child's life before they've had a chance to learn properly.
I like some of the ideas Salman Khan and Sugata Mitra talk about on TED, essentially where the classroom becomes a more open, student driven environment with access to all the resources needed to learn and a teacher whose role is to guide, encourage and push rather than teach.
Give primary school kids the resources and a little encouragement and yes, they will learn faster and more effectively at a much younger age than we give them credit for rather than wasting their time.
So here I am, trying to learn everything I can about flexible education because I don't know how to implement these things easily into my classes. (especially in the rigid traditional education System here in China)
I definitely see student driven classes as the way to go, but I suppose the biggest question I would ask is, how can we push some of these ideas into the mainstream education system?
Josh S
I think it has to do with the culture that the country has. The top nations in education have cultural views that school is important, that it is important to do well in, and parents make their kids do well. In america its different, a lot of parents are happy when their kids bring home C's. For example, i moved from the East coast to the midwest. The difference in education is astounding, but in reality, the subjects and the lessons are the same. The seperating factor is that most parents on the east coast, at least where i lived, expected their kids to bring home a's and b's. Here, a C is considered a decent grade. Its not the funding or the schooling, its the culture.
Sources: 3 siblings currently under 6th grade.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best-education-in-the-wor_n_2199795.html
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Anna Chen
John Locke
1) to keep up with inflation
2) to increase the supply and quality of the work force applying for that position/job
In this case, I believe better quality, passionate teachers would certainly increase the results of education. The matter of importance then is will raising the salary of a teacher increase the number of qualified people that want to become teachers?
To a certain extent, I believe that as salary increases, more demand for that job will be created. However, the type of people that are ideal for teaching will be truly passionate about teaching and the salary they receive will only influence that person so much. In this case, it may be the fact that teaching primary or secondary education isn't considered as respectable as other positions in society and thus these qualified individuals, passionate about teaching, and yearning for respect, may become teachers at over priced universities, authors, businessmen and businesswomen, or some other profession.
So, to increase the quality of teachers, increasing the relative respect of teaching and increasing the wage of teaching would probably accomplish this task.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Interestingly, the approach to challenge in grade school and beyond differs by country. In the developing word, teachers pitch the curriculum to the top of the class and lose the majority. In the United States learning is often (but very much not always) pitched at one place- either the middle or the bottom.
Best practice in education is differentiated instruction, which challenges each child in what is called his "zone of proximal development"- stretching him just beyond his comfort zone.
What is definitely accepted, now, in the United States and, I assume, elsewhere, is that standards of what children should understand and be able to do, can be much higher at every grade level. With every publication of standards in recent years, the bar is being raised higher.
John Locke
Yes, some schools may slowly be doing some of these changes but what is stopping us from embracing a change at once? Why are we sitting back and letting a slow rate of progress be made? The possibilities of our youth are boundless so why are public schools still assigning children a nap time, coloring assignments, and simplistic addition problems even though they are capable of much more?
Seeing that many people's potential, as well as my own, will never be fulfilled because of a weak primary schooling is a bit aggravating as well. Especially when one considers the fact that so much time is wasted during these precious years of sponging up knowledge.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
I have not been a grade school teacher, but none of my three kids had naps in grade school. I think naps are in preschool.
In terms of why instruction isn't differentiated to address the right level for each student, some of that is related to teaching children in groups- sometimes large groups. Some is related to discomfort in some places that letting children move forward at a different pace from each other makes for quite variable outcomes for different kids.
Some schools do separate kids by ability as they measure it and have done so ever since I was a little girl a very long time ago. But many people hate the idea of such "labeling," in part because they believe children who don't learn as fast as their peers might then accept such labels rather than working to a potential that was not evident to those who did the separation.
John Locke
The No Child Left Behind Act has also been a major contributor of why some classrooms move slowly and although this program had good intentions, many people are beginning to question its benefits.
I am not saying that we have to separate kids by ability, although that is an idea, I am simply saying that we need to add more difficult concepts to the curriculum when children can learn so much easier than later. We currently spend so much resources on high school education but the real opportunity for learning is much earlier.
For instance, why did we only begin to learn multiplication in third grade? Why did we learn division in fourth grade? Why is it that we (at least my school) have 3 years of pre algebra and then finally, in freshmen year of high school, students take algebra? We could be teaching algebra to students at a much earlier age and I am confident that their comprehension would be strong.
Anna Chen
I recently watched a video on Finland, the country with the highest test scores and best early education. Something interesting about their culture is that they value education. Sure, we do that here in America, but the teaching profession is one with as much honor as a physician. Their teachers are in the top 10% of colleges where as in America, teachers are in the bottom 20%.
It seems as if there are two problems with the education system. 1) is that the younger grades should be taken more seriously and 2) that teachers should be the top of the top in terms of their OWN education. Do you think that this is true?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
I think it is unusual for those in the top 10% of their classes in the US to want to go into teaching, particularly elementary teaching, for a variety of reasons. I don't know the details, but I don't think the proportion of bright young people who go to Teach for America (which does draw top students) and then stick with teaching is high. I believe they have misconceptions about what it is like to teach day in and day out, and decide that teaching is not what they want to do in public school conditions if they have other options. I don't have the data on Teach for america, but that is my impression.
That early education needs to be taken seriously is not controversial either.
I agree with your friends, though, that a college education should be available to those who want to pursue it, provided they prepare for that undertaking. I work with a lot of adults who fell through the cracks for some reason or other in their k12 education, and now want to prepare to go to college. community colleges are an ideal entry point.
Obviously it is easier to prepare from ones early youth, but it is never too late for someone who wants to do it.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Fritzie Reisner 100+
I am very surprised that schools in New York are holding off on teaching algebra to any of their students until kids are in 9th grade. At this point I think the math standards of most states probably start introducing algebraic concepts in grade school, though math in grade school doesn't have a title like that.
I will now check the math standards for New York.
The required math standards for New York say that children should be able to solve problems like:
8 + x=11 in First Grade.
Here is the standards document, if you want to follow the algebra strand, or any other strand, through from 1-12. http://emsc32.nysed.gov/ciai/common_core_standards/pdfdocs/nysp12cclsmath.pdf
Anna Chen
The concept of not having it seems so foreign! Is it true?
John Locke
But how much easier do you think they would find it if they had been introduced to some of these more difficult concepts earlier in life? Maybe they wouldn't be "scared" when they see quadratic equations or maybe they will find that solving linear equations is easier if these concepts were loosely introduced before hand.
Now, most schools do offer some sort of advanced class of math, but the number of people taking these classes is so small compared to the general mass of students, at least in my school which happens to also be one of the best public schools in my state.
My point is, because many people take the minimum requirements of schooling, they do not ever reach any advanced mathematics. In fact, a large portion of students will just pass with a C or B in math, doing the lowest class possible, and finally breath a sigh of relief when they finish pre calc in senior year...
Anna Chen
This brings up another good question... should we be good at everything? Of course everyone should have basic knowledge of certain subjects but not everyone's meant to take Honors Chemistry, Calculus or AP Literature. I think that students should have these levels of general understanding but go above and beyond in subjects their good at. What do you think? Should we be smart and good at everything or is it okay to only take algebra I and excel in English, for example?
Anna Chen
I think besides setting the bar higher in classrooms, teachers need to instill the feeling in their students that education is important. I believe that children can understand and appreciate the importance of education starting from a young age whether this is accomplished through passionate teachers, rewards, or responsibilities and projects for the students. Students who enjoy learning are more likely to want to learn and will learn things on their own. They will go to college because they want to further their education, and they can only do this once the understand that education is something pleasurable! Although standards of education get higher each year, does this change the graduation rate and college education rate for the children in the future?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
I think most people would agree that extra teachers can help, both in the classroom in some cases and as pull-outs in some cases. Volunteers can help with this also.
There is research evidence of the tremendous benefit of such volunteers in India for the low-performing, less prepared student.
There is enough research support for extra teachers that the use of volunteer tutors is also widespread in the US. The inner city middle school where I used to teach, which has about 1000 kids had, as of last week, sixty such volunteers.
Anna Chen
I am glad to hear that volunteers are so integral to those schools. What kind of support did these volunteers offer? Have you been involved in any afterschool related activities?
In conjunction with what I mentioned earlier, students must be motivated. Education doesn't end beyond the doors of the school and children need good role models at home: people who are concerned with assignments and how well the children do on those assignments. I believe that beyond these classroom aides, parents have to be involved on some level. Do you think that this is too much of a cultural change in some areas, considering you've had experience with inner city schools? Is this a wrong assumption to make?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Since you ask, I have had the chance to be involved in math education in almost every way, including regular classroom, after school, summer enrichment, online mentoring, pullouts, curriculum design, reviewing math materials, coaching math teachers, coaching mathletes...
I think it is really helpful for parents and guardians to be involved in some way in supporting their kids' learning and important for schools to offer parents resources that help them help their children. The parent does not need to tutor his child, but there are many ways of helping. Parents want their kids to succeed in school, regardless of the culture from which they come.
Gavin Scott
Further to this, I have read one report that the connecting factor in terms of the best students across every kind of school (this was in Australia) was the involvement of the parents. No matter the school was the best in the country or the worst, the better students in every school were ones with supportive parents. I'd love to know whether there are any other studies like this around the world.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Anna Chen
Asking questions helps me learn about what others believe which is sometimes more important to growing as a person. This is a pleasurable experience; learning something new through others' beliefs is gratifying to me!
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Others are open to experience and embrace complexity. These are the real learners from interaction.
Anna Chen
And then there are those people who only listen to what they want to hear...