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Considering the violence that occurred during the previous century, can the Western ideas of science and reason be considered "progress"?
The twentieth-century witnessed the most technologically advanced nations in the world (i.e. Britain, Germany, France, Japan, and Russia) engage in two World Wars which killed millions of innocent civilians. Not only did the wars itself create unprecedented destruction, but atrocities such as the Holocaust were perpetrated by advanced, "civilized" nations. Although we have not had a major world war in seven decades, the most powerful nations in the world have created nuclear arsenals with the potential to destroy ever inhabitant on the planet. Finally, the Western lifestyle, perfectly exemplified by the United States, is warming the planet and destroying fragile natural ecosystems. Can this be considered progress?
Steve C
The "nuclear family" seems to have been one gigantic failure. John Taylor Gatto has some good information on how our schools are designed to let us down. Dave Meslin has a good talk on apathy. http://www.ted.com/talks/dave_meslin_the_antidote_to_apathy.html Cheap labor from overseas youth is just another form of war, theft, & slavery - but "keep shopping" seems to be the new mantra for the last century.
It's definitely not the scientific progress that should be our focus; how we use this knowledge, this technology, and our time, is just as important. We've all got a hand in this right now. The technology's as good as inescapable. And if we can't master our selves, we'll never tame it.
Christopher Halliwell
Sarah Chang
Orlando Hawkins 20+
While you are correct in just about everything that you mentioned and although I share you sentiments, I wouldn't blame Science and Reason for this. Science and Reason are the means in which these powerful nations viewed progress (Hegel and Engles (not Marx) would have called it Dialectical History/Materialism) but the were not the cause of all that destruction.
You have to also take into account Politics, Economics and just plain old human cruelty and lust for power/domination. There are many factors that play into what you are mentioning. For example, during the Holocaust, the Naiz's were conducting experiments in a unjustly manner. Their unjust actions and experiments do not say anything about the nature of science but the nature of governmental institutions and the potential for evil that humanity has.
The issue of Global Warming is almost exclusively an issue of politics. You would be hard pressed to blame science, technology and human reason for issues of Global Warming. Since the 1970's when Earth Day was first established (you can correct me on the date if I'm incorrect) Science has been concerned about the sustainability of the earth. Without this Scientific interest and advancement, we would not know much about global warming and it would be left to politicians and philosophers to judge the issues of global warming (perhaps w/o sufficient evidence)
There is much debate between the scientific community and the government. The reason for this is because it is the government's job to govern, in light of the findings of science. The government feels as though the scientific community is trying to fight for the last word in global warming discourse and by doing so, the government feels as though the S.C is overstepping its boundaries. All the S.C is trying to do is get the gov't to act hasty.
You are right that science and technology can be used as instruments of evil but if used in the right way, I think we can actually talk about progress.
Random Chance 30+
it certainly cannot be considered civilization, or civilized.
Is it progress when we have eliminated so many species from the earth
and to also threaten the extinction of many more?
Is it progress to have removed so many rainforests so that we can plunder, destroy impoverish
and produce more methane gas into the atmosphere and with forests gone or dying, we lose (the earth loses) the ability to keep cooler? Well, we do lose.
The melting of the ice caps is a reality but the mismanagement of the resources we still have isn't progress.
The filling of the oceans with garbage, that experts say cannot be removed, doesn't sound like progress to me.
When I was a child I drank cold, sweet water from underground springs. That cannot be done any longer.
That's progress.
You know, many illnesses are progressive. That means in order to progress somewhere, they have to start somewhere.
This thing called progress has been nothing more than a scam, a sham, a lame story, that started somewhere and
has now progressed somewhere. That is what most call progress and it is a mess. Maybe they are wrong, but if they
argue and defend what has happened, as progress, then they are mentally ill or insane.
So mental illness has progressed as we continue to think we can "fix this shit" instead of just doing what is very clear to do: stop this shit!"
But we don't stop. We say we can't stop.
"Ya can't stop progress" but that is exactly what we should do." Belief in such insane thinking is not progress but just how did we get here? By our thinking, which is insane.
We have done the same things over and over, expecting different results, for centuries. The results have been the same only worse.
That is a description of insane behavior. Thus, the actors must be insane.
Gail . 50+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Gail . 50+
"me" = not in accord with conventional wisdom.
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Random Chance 30+
and not necessarily those who come after.
Josef Mengele may become a hero in the next 25-30 years,
which his comrades declared would happen.
I won't be around.
Tom Eccleston
Matt Swatski
W. Ying 10+
Yes!
Our life goal is to keep our DNA alive;
but the science leads us to go against it mostly.
(For details, see the 1st article, points 1-3, 14, at
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D&id=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D%21283&sc=documents).
Daryl Roche
NO ecosystems have been destroyed; altered, attenuated, weakened, changed to no one's benefit certainly, but not destroyed and more attributable to population growth than "violence".
The exploitation of oil and gas has benefitted the entire planet, has driven innovation, prosperity, economies…progress…and yes, it has consequences. Our "science and reason" is also helping to mitigate those consequences as much as increase productivity and impact social change to bring us closer to a more peaceful state.
So yes…progress
Matt Swatski
Daryl Roche
Orlando Hawkins 20+
Sean Brother
Robert Winner 50+
Science is a tool that is used as a force for the good or evil. Reasoning is the capacity for consciously making sense of things, for establishing and verifying facts, and changing or justifying practices, institutions, and beliefs based on new or existing information.
We have enjoyed a boom in science ... yes weapons are involved ... But so is space travel, medicine, entertainment, travel, comforts, and all types of electronics and toys ...
We enjoyed the art of diplomacy after WW II notably John Foster Dullas, Henery Kissinger, and some Presidents that understood foriegn affairs. We do not have that talent available to us now and depend on diplomatic astute nations such as England to do our bidding. The USA is a failed diplomatic nation and has added greatly to our problems.
The same problems exist today and throughout history ... kingdoms, dictators, fanatics, and the greed of man. I would consider that fewer of these exist today that ever before .... and yes that is progress.
Matt ... I get the feeling that the real issue here is "green". Could you provide some guidance where you would like this conversation to go. Right now it the history of the world part one.
I wish you well.
Bob.
Matt Swatski
Robert Winner 50+
We have seen the same figures in the hands of spin doctors ... prove and disaprove all of the arguments until this year there appears to be a reversal in the findings that the earth is cooling again.
Matt I agree that there are things we are doing that are abusive to the environment and we should stop. But until issues like the environment and immagration and so forth are taken serious and not just political sabre rattling for votes there will never be real change as you seek.
Matt I might suggest that we, as a nation, begin to take our government seriously. If we returned to a Constitutional government, reduced the size and the programs offered ... and additionally took charge of the "career politicians" and made them once again servants of the people then we could seriously tackle the issues facing us.
We need to focus on the things we can control and work toward those issues you have expressed.
I wish you well. Bob.
Zdenek Smith 100+
Early in the last century the problem was that people were still not educated as we are now and dictators were determining the nation's future. Nowadays, we have fairly educated masses, the Internet as means of unprecedented communication and criticism, governments more transparent than ever and the number of people killed world-wide keep steadily decreasing.
" the most powerful nations in the world have created nuclear arsenals with the potential to destroy ever inhabitant on the planet"
Nuclear weapon stockpile keeps also decreasing:
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21572195-why-barack-obama-may-now-be-able-start-cutting-nuclear-weapons-search-nuclear?zid=312&ah=da4ed4425e74339883d473adf5773841
"Finally, the Western lifestyle, perfectly exemplified by the United States, is warming the planet and destroying fragile natural ecosystems. "
Yes unfortunately sometimes progress causes other side-effects like global warming. However I see many positive trends. For example, technology is decreasing pollution created by cards, we are moving toward energy from solar panels, more energy efficient appliances and so on.
I think we will overcome global warming, eliminate all arms conflicts and have better life for everyone in near future. The Internet is playing a major role in connecting people and teams to work and resolve these problems
cheers
Matt Swatski
Zdenek Smith 100+
Also as I mentioned today, due to the Internet, people have substantially higher access to information, including videos taken by people everywhere and blogs, twitters etc. that report factual information. Government cannot any more easily control media.
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Matt Swatski
Mark Kurtz 20+
Progress is a definite feature in evolution of thought; we either accept it peacefully and smartly or we are forced to learn in sorrow. The sorrowful way is the really scary way!!
pat gilbert 50+
The world has steadily become less violent over the past 100 years
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html
The last year or so show reports that the world is now cooling.
Matt Swatski
pat gilbert 50+
The communist countries said that they learned everything they knew from Woodrow Wilson who learned everything he knew about manipulating the masses from Edward Bernays, Sigmund Freud's nephew. Incidentally old Woodrow is the president who brought us income tax, the federal reserve, and the most crippling of all the 17th amendment, rather dubious accomplishments for someone who has America's best interests in mind don't you think?
Hitler employed 10s of thousands of psychologists to implement eugenics, which was the reason for the atrocities. I wonder how hard it is to plant a seed regarding eugenics in a mad man?