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War Heroes - do we do enough?
There have been fiery debates about the second amendment, guns and wars, etc here on TED but this debate is about those who joined up, trained and then served overseas.
The young heroes who feel ten foot tall, are strongly patriotic believing the fear and propaganda circulated about defending their country. The ones who served, risked or gave their lives; or returned war damaged to try to adjust to a mundane life.
This debate is about we do enough for them on their return?
Enough to repay their kindness for the risks they have taken, for the damage that defence personal serving in an area of conflict suffer. For even if we don't believe in weapons or wars these people have served us selflessly and they usually return with psychological if not physical challenges.
Please offer any suggestions of how we can/should support them?
Closing Statement from Kate Blake
Too many idealists judge those who serve as also being responsible for war and this is NOT so! Law makers start wars because they are courted by the greedy war mongers who profit hugely from selling the weapons, etc. Someone below referred to war as a Big Racket!
But the point is whatever we think of war, and I am a pacifist, these people do risk their lives, sacrifice their health in order to 'protect us'. Their training rewires their brain to immediate response "kill or be killed", then the conflict cements that. They return with limbs missing, with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - it is doubtful that they can ever return to the person they were before joining and their family has to live with these repercussions.
Personally I would lie to see a health warning at the top of every enlistment sheet! "War will destroy your health, kill your soul. Nobody will ever understand the depths of sadness that you have experienced and you will struggle to fit into society again".
Saying a genuine 'thank you' is a good start. But we all need to campaign our governments to provide better services to these heroes. Support them and their families in any way you can and encourage them to engage in community or voluntary work where possible. Especially something like this with team effort.
http://www.ted.com/talks/jake_wood_a_new_mission_for_veterans_disaster_relief.html
THANK YOU!
Scott Reil
Dwight D. Eisenhower was well aware of another great war hero of these United States, one few people have heard of. Maj. General Smedley Butler, USMC, was the only general to earn the CMH and that was his second, putting him in rarified air even for heroes. He had served in many campaigns, the Phillipine insurrection, China, the Banana Wars, and began to see a pattern. Wherever American business interests were threatened, our military ended up fighting and dying. Yet the troops always bore the hardest cost and recieved nothing for it but medals, while the corporations that instigated the actions became incredibly rich both from their newly aquired capital AND their huge war profits.
Old Gimlet Eye, as the troops fondly named him, was truly one of the troops, having come through every rank from 2nd Lt. He was a supporter of the Bonus Army, giving a rallying speech the night before Douglas MacArthur cleared the camps and set them ablaze (some heroes are less exemplary than others). He was approached in 1933 to lead a coup of the FDR adminstration by business leaders of the day, which he exposed to Congress. Hearings were held, Butler was vindicated, but not one arrest was made; they were "too big to arrest". One of the key plotters was Standard Oil owner Prescott Bush. Perhaps you know his family? Surprised how that turned out? Not me...
Butler ends his book with the line "To Hell With War!" We could do THAT for the troops... but bashing Dems and supporting facists is easier...
Kate Blake 50+
Not sure what you mean by 'backside' of any war? Troops maybe coming out of Afghanistan but seems like US is preparing to add Syria to its far too many pockets of conflict around the world ....
Scott Reil
To destabilize oil prices, creating a volatile market with huge swings that could be capitalized on. Halliburton was doing jobs it never had, feeding and watering troops at huge profits. Remember, that was the company that Cheney was a vice president of WHILE he was VPOTUS, it took six months for his staff to convince him it was a conflict of interest (hearings were being organized by the time he finally relinquished his company role. THAT'S the real reason we went to war, the same reason Smedley Butler tried to get that same family up on treason charges back in the Thirties.
So help a vet; vote for peace.
Kate Blake 50+
Yes, let's all vote for, advocate for world peace the only way forward for everyone.
The Power Supreme
I elected to serve my country as an Infantryman, and I understand that people feel grateful for what my fellow Soldiers and I have done, but you need to remember that we all enlisted on our own accord. We chose to serve our country.
I guess the best way to thank a vet is to do something with your life. Speak out against tyranny, quit destroying the country; do good. Quit giving trophies for participation. Work hard and be proud of your accomplishments. Be aggressive and play to win. Support local business. Help people help themselves. Contest traffic citations. Be glad that your daughters don't get circumcised and are afforded the luxury of an education. Think about someone other than yourself. Get off welfare. Do ridiculous things and put them on Youtube just because you can.
Appreciate everything, forsake nothing and take a minute or so whenever Facebook, your cell phone or whatever else you people do to entertain yourselves allows, and think about the eighteen year old who has never left his country except to fight the enemy, who is sitting behind an automatic weapon somewhere in the world, wondering if he's ever going to hug his family again.
Everyone is up in arms about taxes rising and who's going to pay how much. What's fair? Who should bear the burden? I know guys who have lost their lives fighting. I'm not talking about those who fall in battle, I'm talking about the guy on his third or fourth deployment who comes home to an empty house, no wife, no money; nothing. How fair is it that less than one-tenth of one percent of the country carries the weight of your freedom?
Kate Blake 50+
After my response to TED Lovers comment below I am starting to wonder - in Australia we have very grotesque warnings about the health hazards of smoking. What is your opinion if we should ask that such warnings be put on the enlist forms?
Andrew Wiggin
Gail . 50+
That is simply not true. They serve themselves. They serve their own definition of honor, justice, and purpose. They do not serve MY definitions of honor, justice, and purpose.
The US advertises for recruits most heavily in poor areas. So people with few options agree to serve in a role that has been "advertised" as selfless, and a majority of the culture agrees. (Just because the propaganda says its honorable and selfless doesn't make it so. Hitler said that ethnic cleansing was honorable and worthy and the people followed after brainwashing. Did that make it honorable OR worthy?). Others serve in order to see the world. Others do so to learn discipline. Others do so because they think that God is on their side, and they are serving God by being a mercenary that participates in murder and mayhem. Others do so because they can learn valuable skills or have government pay for their educations.
Ultimately, all who serve, do so in order to honor their own objectives. They might well believe that they serve to protect and defend me, but they do not protect and defend me outside of their own beliefs (imaginations). They protect and defend an idea that I find reprehensible. I do not need them to sacrifice for me. That idea is also reprehensible as it devalues me and everyone else.
I think that we should support them by fixing the self-chosen human condition that makes mercenaries appear to be valuable assets. Then when that is corrected, we will declare peace.
I see no difference between the army foot soldier, the clerk, and the one who works in a factory making all of the accoutrements of war. And as our economy is war-based, that includes all who serve the interests of money, that is sustained through war.
Kate Blake 50+
You yourself list various reasons why people enlist: mainly the poor who have no choice, to see the world, to learn discipline, to serve god, to learn valuable skills or have the govt pay for their education - a good mixed bag which does reflect people's reason for enlisting. But then to Blame them for the actual conflicts? Is that realsitic? Do they go around looking for war or asking their govt to get involved?
Did have your naive judgemental attitude for some time but in the long run it is our politicians urged on by those who make the big profits from war - weapon manufacturers that get involved and often start wars.
Agree that most economies are war based, and we could have peace much sooner if those enlisted just put down their weapons, parked their jets, docked their ships and walked away ... But how realsitic is that? Once they join their brain is rewired, they are totally brainwashed to kill or be killed, to obey all orders without question. It is this training that kills their soul that allows them to do what they must do in conflict but is that their fault?
They are the ones who if not killed return to relive the nightmare of PTSD and much other physical and mental damage caused by their service - should we judge them for those reasons they joined up? Notice you didn't mention that any enlist with the intention to go to war and kill. Many just don't really get that that is the price they must pay for their education or travel once enlisted.
Please open your heart? Haven't you made any bad choices in your life? Do many others hold a grudge against you for what you once did? These individuals are not to blame for the war mongering it is the manufacturers and the politicians whose pockets that they line who are to blame!
Please step back and look at the broader picture?
Gail . 50+
I have assumed this stance because I did step back and question the very nature of how life works. I see a larger picture than my culture sees. I recognize when my government is trying to manipulate me because I have learned to walk through my fears. So when fear heads my way, I don't acknowledge its legitimacy. I explore it to see what it's made of. It's not an emotional thing. It's a rational exploration.
Fear is the fuel that governments (and religions) use to motivate people to do things that they would ordinarily not do. During the Nuremberg Trials, Goering said that no man wants to go to war, to risk house and home and life itself. But it's easy enough to get them to want to. Just declare a threat, choose an enemy, praise the patriots and denounce the pacifists as traitors to a just cause.
The US (and some other countries) have taken this message and used it against their own people because our global economy is on the brink of total collapse, and war it is only thing that can keep it afloat until we find another politically acceptable solution.
There was a time when people were sacrificed to appease the gods. But I see us doing that still - human slaughter to appease the god of money. I want it to end. That's how I want to support soldiers and all the rest who are longing for REAL freedom and safety.
If you feel so strongly, why aren't YOU a soldier? Do you think of yourself as unworthy? I don't. Neither do I see the soldier as unworthy.
Emotions are not thoughts, and humankind is being controlled through emotional manipulation.
Josh S
The examples you gave are true, but are only part of the reasons war exists. I know that personally, i would want to fight if it meant directly defending the ones i care for.
Gail . 50+
But regardless of your reasons, my only point is that you should not expect my gratitude or sacrifice on your behalf if you choose to do so. My worldview is different than yours.
Scott Reil
That TL chooses to rise above that base response speaks well of him/her in my book, and we should honor the thoughts behind that as surely as we would honor the troops. As the old spiritual says "I will study war no more"; this choice needs to be honored MORE than militarism if we are to live up to ANY of the ideals our religions and social constructs espouse, but rarely live up to. We continue to pray Mark Twain's War Prayer, without the realizations his old prophet speaks of; to study war in any fashion is to embrace atrocity, widows and orphans, disease and famine. TL chooses not to do that, and that decision may be more sound than the premise of this thread. When society stops patting the backs of those who go to war, irregardless of reason, then and ONLY then will we have Josh's "true, just war" for it will be the only one that ever gets fought...
george lockwood 20+
pat gilbert 50+
Kate Blake 50+
pat gilbert 50+
Kate Blake 50+
Barry Palmer 50+
Kate Blake 50+
Sounds like US vets need some stronger lobbying or advocacy - I was aware there was differences between countries of how we repay these people but these differences maybe bigger than I thought.
Robert Winner 50+
Kate this has a "conversation" ring to it. If we put together a list of salaries and perks for the Politicians .. what part of the budget would that be. Don't forget full retirement after four years in the House and 12 years in the Senate ... they voted this for themselves.
Kate their medical benefits are so good that they exempted themselves from Obama care. Or maybe Obama care is that bad.
Thanks for thinking about the Vets. Much of the feeling about the Vets comes from the top down. If the President never served or went to Canada to "evade" the draft then the public follows that lead.
What perks do the Government officials get there?
I wish you well. Bob.
Kate Blake 50+
Maybe you should start another conversation to outline politicans perks? No wonder your country is broke ... Bet the general public have no idea. I really think you need to tell others.
Robert Winner 50+
Kate Blake 50+
I really am stunned that you guys allow them to pass such wasteful benefits - why is there no public outcry, no media blitz, no massive protests?
Robert Winner 50+
1.. Congressional benefits and perks
2. Nancy Pelosis Jet
Did you read about the insider trading that is LEGAL in Congress. Nancy Pelosi chaired a congressional committee that was making a decision on Visa Card and it woud greatly affect the value of the stock .... after the committe came to a decision .. and before the announcement was made ... she called her stock broker and purchased a BUNCH of stock in VISA. She made a pile of money. We send people to prison for insider trading .. but in Congress it is legal.
Guess if you have no morals or ethics ... all is good.
Bob.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Some, it seems, are not aware of the medical, educational, and other benefits that are reserved for them.
Kate Blake 50+
But at least there is a support system in place.
Much thanks to all who have served, you are all heroes.