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Should we start teaching children in Primary and/or Secondary School "Coding"?
Coding is computer lingo, which I've heard a million times, but I've never really found an interest in learning anymore, until I saw this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU1xS07N-FA.
I believe that learning coding seems like a fascinating task now. I feel that coding would be pretty amazing skill to spread to the future innovators of tomorrow. I have not yet given myself the opportunity to learn coding, but after watching this I will check it out in the near future.
Do you think that the current curricula for education would fit a whole new division of computer science related courses, like coding (I think it's the big one?).
What are your views of more technologically based educational environments in the near future?
Does anyone else imagine a world of cyborgs....ha, but seriously, what are the limitations to having this skill?
If you have any other questions that might get answers or you have an answer for, then ask away and let's challenge the boundaries my fellow Tedsters! =)
Rohit Chatterjee
My niece has this problem right now. She does a calculation across several steps, none of which give her any idea of whether she is on the right path. At the end of it she may be right or she may be wrong, and the only ways to check are to stare at it or do it again.
But programs are interactive! You can step through using a debugger and *watch* the variables getting updated. You can count how many times your for-loop executed, you can pepper your code with print-statements and "see" what's going on.
For people who are getting their feet wet, this makes a huge difference. I guess I'm saying that the learning curve is a lot gentler with programming.
Dario Panada
It is about giving them the possibility of deciding how they want to use their computer, rather than allowing somebody else to decide for them. It is about adapting their software to their needs, rather than their needs to their software. "My e-mail client allows me to sort e-mail by "most recent" or "alphabetical order" whereas I want it by "number of attachemnts"? I can re-code it myself!
Have a look at Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/), it is possibly one of the best tools to teach "young leaners" about programming. (Admittedly, the "white on black" compiler screen can be quite indimidating!)
Derek Young 30+
Rohit Chatterjee
But I wouldn't want to remove the one subject which emphasizes precision, care, discipline and logic.
So.. maybe programming should replace math! Math could become an "optional" subject after teaching basic arithmetic.
Now there are different types of programming, which would develop different abilities in our kids and teens. I am only weighing in on the "algorithm-oriented" type of programming, other people will have opinions about scripting and other flavors.
Derek Young 30+
Rohit Chatterjee
People gravitate towards what interests them. The people who would end up gravitating toward the quadratic formula would then learn about the geometry of conics and roots of polynomials. To them it would not be "an ugly formula" which they were forced to memorize with no desire to understand it.
Ruben Vereecken
Most parts of programming exist of basic mathematical concepts, and thus are rendered meaningless to those with no notion or feeling with these concepts. I'm talking about quite simple things, nothing extravagant. I think math gets people a feeling for these things. Take, for example, a loop. Loops are quite common in programming as things often have to be repeated. This came from summations and other loop constructs in maths.
Here's a fun fact: Alan Turing (often called 'father of Computer Science') designed his 'Turing machines' (basis for computers) for mathematicians. They were constructs on paper that, by following a number of steps, would give some result with some input. This enabled mathematicians to automate some laborous work by simply following these simple steps. Math is just too big a part of computer science.
Rohit Chatterjee
Ruben Vereecken
The most healthy thing to do seems to peak interests early on in a 'playful' environment. The ones that hunger for more should be given that opportunity while those that are sated with just the basics still learn enough to be of any use, be it only theoretical or insightful.
Derek Young 30+
Could you dive deeper into the psychology of the skills you have attained from coding? Please give some life examples, if possible.
Ruben Vereecken
I guess what taught me most was what is nowadays known as 'Object Oriented Programming'. This means that one can tackle a problem by building blocks (Objects) that only contain information relevant to the problem and then make these blocks interact with eachother. One can easily see that this is a very intuitive approach and is adopted by most people quite naturally. This is basically what our brains do with everything around us: filter out the currently relevant information and apply this somehow.
After having built these blocks myself, made them interact, I automatically began to think about my surroundings. Simple things mostly. Let's take a train station for example, as I take the train quite regularly. Trains could be objects, so could the station be and maybe the different railroads. You know there are other stations, which the trains can drive between. Maybe make a train driver an object that knows about it's destinations, etc. Using the approach one automatically builds a model of a train net bottom-up. For especially chaotic minds as mine this can be a blessing and helps understanding; where you don't know how something functions you insert a building block that you know interacts with it's surroundings in some way and using this approach maybe even deduce what it should be or how it might work.
This exposition might seem a bit vague but it was actually astoundingly hard to think about the way I think almost naturally now.
Derek Young 30+
Benjamin Barrington
Trey Thompson
Derek Young 30+
James Brade
If the achievement is to give a lot of young people the ability to code, then great this is the way forward.
If you are looking for a lot of young entrepreneurs, high achievers or creative thinkers then I think the time would be better spent else were.
The current problem with our education system is the concept that 'one size fits all' i.e. all kids can achieve and attain the same level or become the best at whatever they choose to do. This initial mind set is wrong, and does not build children up upon their strength but instead tries to level the playing field. We really should be looking at their interests and natural talent and trying to nurture and build upon them.
If the concept was right then surely anyone can become an Olympic champion, greatest violinist, ever or surgeon regardless or interest or ability. All they need is a little time to practice, in which case surely we should all be in very highly paid jobs doing whatever.
I believe just because you can use a screw drivers and a socket set does not make you a great mechanic. It only produces someone able to do rudimentary mechanical tasks.
Learning to code is no different, great you can now make a program but without imagination, creativity and other interests what are you going to do with it??
Derek Young 30+
I want to emphasize that if coding were added to schools curriculum, then it would be to peak interests where children may not know they had , but having more skills wouldn't hurt anyone. If you watched any of the videos I have in my description, then it shows how coding can be a medium for creative expression. I don't believe that coding should dominate and be the only topic children should be learning, but it should be part of their agenda.
I think you are assuming that people can't fail or should know their strengths and weaknesses from birth. Some people are like wine, just give them some time and they will "ripen".
Who are we to decide what a child should do, even if it is their strength. Encouragement and improving those skills may be beneficial, but do they want or like to do what they are good at?
Someone once told me a sad story of their friend. She was really good at mathematics, so her parents told her to become an engineer. She would graduate top of her class and had many job offers, but she would tell her friend that she really likes doing art, though she wants to make er parents happy. She begins to spiral into a deep depression and she ends up taking her own life. The fact that she wanted to do something she was good at and her parents wanted, she never achieved the happiness that she could have attained. Moral of the story, let people try what they like and give them help and encouragement.
James Brade
Yes, very very sad story about someone that should have followed their heart rather than there head.
I actually do agree with the sentiment that you are putting across. Being a software engineer myself I know how liberating and creative coding can actually be. My ideal would be to expand across a wider range of skills in addition to just coding i.e. basic mechanical engineering and more music type activities.
I'm unsure if you know here in the UK the government has announced that all children should be able to program and create apps etc. My concern is forcing kids into to as well as not allowing them access to the information/skills etc could be damaging to the child.
You address my point exactly when you say 'Who are we to decide what a child should do'; with our current system for example I was disallowed to take computing at school, as the teachers said that I wouldn't do well in that. Now here I am with Masters in Software Engineering!
Because I my very bad experience during schooling, I'm very keen on trying to create an environment that nurtures children and build upon their skills, abilities and desires.
However I still maintain on what the end goal of this would be, as for a taster I think it's great but I can see the education system taking something good like this and warping it into something totally different. In our current education system I see kids that don't have the basic skills of looking and feeding themselves. I would much prefer kids being shown and taught basic life skills before other such subjects.
Derek Young 30+
In no way will I ever advocate for an education system that will produce students that doesn't consider their interests whatsoever to fruition. According to Sugata Mitra, most school systems were created with the ideal in mind that people needed to be identical, so they would be able to fit in at any work location, such as government positions, but he said that was the system that was efficient about 300 years ago. Now we have surpassed the need for that system and a new system will be beneficial. Indecisiveness is our enemy and research has been done where a new system is supposed to focus on the individual growth, but it probably won't be implemented because of special interest groups.
If you believe in something, then amass like-minded individuals and act upon those ideas in the safest manner. Change is difficult for many to accept, but it will eventually happen in my optimistic view of our future.
Paul Harwood 30+
edulover learner 10+
Hathaway Mann
Trey Thompson
Juliette Zahn 50+
And as for your question, Steve, Bill and Mark have set the course for the future of humanity to follow....so I'd say start with first grade......it will be hard for this generation of parents because children will take off like kites!! And parents and teachers have come to be hyper-controllers so they will be at a loss........but after the Ken-Robinson and Sugata Mitra "shifts" take place ( which is happening as we speak ;-).....Then we might have teens like this everywhere:
http://www.ted.com/talks/award_winning_teen_age_science_in_action.html
And the grown ups and older generations have to swallow their pride and step aside and let these teens find the cure for cancer........because kids are the ones who will.
Derek Young 30+
The cure for the common cold would be nice also, lol.
Ghina Zand Alhadid
So maybe as an elective/ extracurricular course it would be a good idea to introduce school students into it. But demanding from all kids to study it and like it... I think it would be sort of unfair!
Derek Young 30+
Did you take a look at the link for a youtube video in my description?
Ghina Zand Alhadid
This field is developing fast. By the time I graduated from school the language I was taught was not used anymore! It needs someone passionate about it to follow up all the updates.
It would be great getting jobs in this domain, but again it is personal preference. I cannot see myself working as a computer programmer, because it does not interest me at all. I CAN force myself to learn and to work but I would be very miserable in my life and would probably fail.
In fact I believe there should be less things taught in school, because I remember studying so many things that were deep, yet shallow. Things that were for specialists but since its only intermediate and secondary school, they gave us some lines about it with no good, solid background about it. Even our teachers were not capable of explaining them to us. I believe it was a total waste of time. But oh well, that is another debate!
Derek Young 30+
Creating a curricula that makes students' learn how to think and not what to think is what the goal of education is, right? Unless, that is, that the goal is to produce "model citizens" for the benefit of a country, then I would say I would be wrong to give more skills for primary and secondary education in that type of environment.
Ryan Crowley
http://www.codecademy.com/
edulover learner 10+
Zdenek Smith 100+
The main reason is robots and computers will continue to spread throughout the society. Individuals and people in various careers will have increasingly interact with these technologies and have the option or even need to "program" their tools and environment.
Recently I saw a speech at TED 2013 about this but I can't find it. It basically the speaker said that as people moved from using paper sheets into "programming" Excel spread sheet the same way we need to start teaching programming to non-IT professions.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
http://www.ted.com/talks/mitch_resnick_let_s_teach_kids_to_code.html
I think computer science is important to offer in secondary school, at least.
Derek Young 30+
Do you happen to have a link to the conversation or the thread you mentioned meant the Tedx?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Derek Young 30+
edulover learner 10+