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Mitch SMith

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Should we trust the invisible hand?

James B Glattfelder outlines an emergent entity in his study of transnational company data.

Is this entity trustworthy?

Please state your reasons for trust or otherwise on the assumption that this emergent entity exists.

I'd also be interested in your opinion of whether the entity outlined in the math is essentially separate from the people who created it?

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    Theodore A. Hoppe 200+

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    Feb 16 2013: The simple answer, one that Glattfelder points out, "The high degree of interconnectivity of the top players in the core could pose a significant systemic risk to the global economy"
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      pat gilbert 100+

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      Feb 16 2013: That is not true unless those players are the governments but even then governments eventually have to give way to the Invisible Hand. Unfortunately when the U.S. falls it will take the rest of the world with it. Think of the dark ages, all of the technology existed that created the Roman Empire in the dark ages but none of it was implemented. In modern times it will be more like Mad Max?
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        Theodore A. Hoppe 200+

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        Feb 16 2013: Truth is relative. We don't know truth we share a perceptive of it. If you're saying, in your opinion this isn't true, my reply is that it's insufficient to make unsubstantiated claims such as yours (and you know this already).
        The quote is from Glattfelder's talk. If you can present an intelligent and supported argument to counter Glattfelder's research my all ears.
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          pat gilbert 100+

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          Feb 16 2013: My points are empirical and objective, I submit as substantiation, of which is only available to those wishing to Look...
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        Theodore A. Hoppe 200+

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        Feb 16 2013: If you would like to learn about ComplexityTheory there is still a change to enroll in this online class at the Santa Fe Institue.

        I just wanted to send a quick note to everyone letting you know that it's not too late to enroll in the course, you can enroll anytime during course. If you have not done so already please visit http://www.complexityexplorer.org/ and press the "Enroll in the Course" button to begin. Please respond to juniper@santafe.edu if you have any questions.

        Juniper Lovato
        Program Coordinator
        Education and Outreach
        Santa Fe Institute
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          Mitch SMith 50+

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          Feb 17 2013: Thanx Theo - enrolled.

          I was resisting a download of netlogo .. I know I'll dissapear down a rabit hole for years. Back in the early 90's I had to program my own netlogo, but it robbed so much of my time I had to let it go .. that, and a study I was doing on erosion/redeposition slow topology.
          but I suppose these things are inevitable and resistance is futile .. the Vogon of topology!
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        Theodore A. Hoppe 200+

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        Feb 16 2013: Your points are based on a limited understanding of what is under discussion.
        "Glattfelder says we may need global anti-trust rules, which now exist only at national level, to limit over-connection among TNCs. Bar-Yam says the analysis suggests one possible solution: firms should be taxed for excess interconnectivity to discourage this risk."

        Here is the research paper. Most of the reference papers have links. (for the benefit of others)

        http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0025995
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          pat gilbert 100+

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          Feb 17 2013: I scanned the link and get the concept. I just disagree, the speaker does not understand the power of the free market. The only way this is going to be a problem is through crony capitalism which is not likely to happen to any degree. When in history has this been a problem for any length of time?
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        Mitch SMith 50+

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        Feb 16 2013: Hi Pat,

        We are looking - this is why I submitted this question. Any data or links are welcome!

        @ Theo I'll have a look at your links. Many thanks!

        Just generally, it might be a good start to have a look at the invisible hand from the ground-zero of Adam Smith's discovery.
        I am absolutely sure that, had Smith access to computers, he would have delivered a lot more to his analysis.
        I am sure theh Smith calculations have been submitted to computer modelling a few times.
        I suppose I'd better round up a few so we can observe the etymology of these ideas.
        Might take a day or 2.
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      Mitch SMith 50+

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      Feb 17 2013: Reply to Theo's original contribution:

      Yes, but is Glattfelder talking about Smith's invisible hand?
      Or is he talking about an infection of the invisible entity attached to that hand?
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        Theodore A. Hoppe 200+

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        Feb 17 2013: I wrote a reply and then reread this entire thread to be sure I was understanding the question you're asking.
        If you're asking me to speculate about Smith's idea of markets and the "invisible hand" as he was suggestion it, Glattfelder says he see emergence in the system, the structure is the result of self organization, so the high degree of interconnectivity, is probably not the result of a top-down approach like a global conspiracy." Is the question then, whether there is a self regulating behavior in this TNC marketplace? My answer would be "No" and hence the need for "a few simple rules" as Glattfeder puts it, global regulations not just national one which are ineffective with TNCs.

        Does this answer it Mitch? Smith's invisible hand metaphor addresses a much simpler market of buyer and sellers.

        BTW, you will have some catching you to do in the course, but you know Netlogo so you have an edge.

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