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Scot Wilcox

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Do right and wrong exist?

I'm curious about objective right and wrong. If you believe in God, this is a no-brainer. Some things are wrong, some things are right, simply because God says so and He knows. But if you don't believe in God, can you still believe in objective morality? I personally don't think you can. I mean, what do you base it off of? How do you find out what's objectively right or wrong? (By objective I mean "existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality." from dictionary.com)
Sure, there's subjective morality. Any idea of right or wrong come up with by a human is by definition subjective. That's all well and good. Problem is that it only applies to people who believe in it and it gives them no authority to proclaim anything as "what we should be doing." Very often everybody disagrees with each other and we don't get anywhere. (Just look at Congress for an example of this.)
Maybe you disagree with me and you think there is objective morality but no God. That's fine. I would like to ask you to answer a question for me though. Let's pick an easy one. Why is rape objectively wrong? Don't misunderstand me, I can't think of a single instance where rape wouldn't be wrong. I believe very strongly that sexual abuse is one of the greatest evils in the world. Why is it evil? If you can answer me without using a God-based or subjective argument, I'll concede the point.
That point is this: Without God, there is no such thing as right and wrong, only the things we call right and wrong. And since nobody can agree on what to call what, we're all in a lot of trouble.

Topics: God Right anarchy law morality order philosophy question wrong
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    Casey Christofaris 10+

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    Feb 28 2013: If you want to take it biblical we do not have right and wrong, Jesus came and got rid of sin. So is a priest doing something wrong when he sexually assaults a child? Truth is, no he most certainly believes in Jesus and so he get to go to heaven and not hell. If the gods do not judge men why do men?

    • Louise Kyte

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      Mar 2 2013: No no no no no. A Catholic priest does not go to heaven because he believes in God. If he is in a state of grace when he dies; that is he has confessed his sins, promised sincerely not to commit them again and therefore been absolved of his sins by his confessor, he may believe he is going to heaven. You're getting Catholicism mixed up with some forms of Protestantism. But I believe most Protestants feel it is the sum total of their behavior and intentions on this earth that may gain them heaven, or not.
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        Casey Christofaris 10+

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        Mar 6 2013: That is not what the bible says, that if a man is on his dying bed and excepts Jesus in his heart as a or the savior he will go to heaven. Its pretty straight forward.

        Do you think when Jesus died for our sins to gain access to heaven, that his equal but opposite reaction is that it would create more sin on earth?

        • Louise Kyte

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          Mar 7 2013: "That is not what the bible says, that if a man is on his dying bed and excepts Jesus in his heart as a or the savior he will go to heaven. Its pretty straight forward. "

          1) Where does it say that?

          2)Do you really know so little about the Catholic religion?

          "Do you think when Jesus died for our sins to gain access to heaven, that his equal but opposite reaction is that it would create more sin on earth?"

          No. And when people speak of Jesus dying for our sins they are saying He is the Lamb of God, so that we no longer have to perform sacrifices to rid ourselves of sin. The Bible is not really saying that we're all going to heaven just by believing in Jesus. It's saying that when God sacrificed His only begotten Son, that act of sacrifice was the final one necessary. Fundamentalists can twist things for their own purposes. Biblical scholars despair of some of their choices. Jesus gave us a list of things to be doing. No way he wanted us to just sit around believing in Him & thinking everything was going to be fine because we did. Neither did He have any interest in us waiting until we were going to die before acepting Him. He wanted people to be living good lives, not lives wasted through gambling.
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        Casey Christofaris 10+

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        Mar 7 2013: I guess that is how you define sin. Unfortunately with man taking over the laws of which to live by instead of the gods. Its all sin now. So where do we draw the line?

        Could you pass this sin list, I can not glad I did live then or I would be going to hell....

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat#42_Negative_Confessions_.28Papyrus_of_Ani.29

        • Louise Kyte

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          Mar 7 2013: I believe you probably meant "I am glad I did not live then", though your meaning was conveyed regardless.

          It's interesting to ponder some of the things that the Israelites must have taken with them out of Egypt. It might also help with this to remember that Moses had been a prince of Egypt.
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        Casey Christofaris 10+

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        Mar 7 2013: What if to get into heaven, man could break no man made laws. I think we already know the pope wouldn't get in and neither would his successor.

        • Louise Kyte

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          Mar 7 2013: I would imagine they know that, too.
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        Casey Christofaris 10+

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        Mar 7 2013: If a MAN asked you to walk through the eye of hell with him and he say's he will get you through to the other side. He say's he will hold your hand the whole time but you will never see it, he will be your strength but you will have to carry the burden. He will be your guide but you will have to follow. Would you believe him?

        When you make it through he will stop tell you to look at the journey you just made and show you it was YOUR eye you walked through.

        Why do men judge men?

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