Gogo della Luna

This conversation is closed.

What if nothing comes from our devotion, effort, faith and work?

Samuel Beckett said:
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.


But...what's the measure of failure? When should we declare 'time-out'?

  • thumb
    Jan 31 2013: I've found this to be true in my life:

    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.” ~ Mark Twain

    If failure does harm to you or others, it's time for some time out.
  • thumb
    Jan 29 2013: I learned some words of a good businessman recently, in a book I read. It goes, "There is no such thing as failure - only feedback."

    Since I read those words, when I have had moments of wondering if what stirs my heart is worth doing anything about because no one seems to care or the effort seems so large ... I just remember that there is no failure. Only feedback.

    Sometimes maybe we just need to rest, re-coup, and re-organize for another way.

    Good luck my friend
  • Feb 3 2013: I wonder what it would be like to live in a time and place where money wasn't needed to live, where people lived in a community disconnected from technology, living off the land and connected to the earth?
  • thumb
    Jan 30 2013: Why are we devoted? Why do we make effort? Why do we have faith? Why are we doing what we are doing?
    There is no way that sustained effort, patience and passion would not produce something worthwhile. Life is about sowing and reaping; and quality seeds, when planted and properly nurtured, produces bountiful harvests.

    The major problem we have as human beings is that we expect our fictional and fantasy ideas of success to become reality, fully formed.
    Not everything we do would bring the exact results we've been anticipating; but there are lessons to be learnt; and lessons in themselves build the human being, they are a reservoir of knowledge and insight.
    For as long as we are alive we should know that nothing good comes easy; and that patience is an essentail ingridient of progress.
  • thumb
    Jan 30 2013: The risk you take when trying and putting all your efforts into a task is failure. That is what makes accomplishments so great. It is stepping out on a ledge and not being afraid to fail multiple times or maybe never succeed at all. There are many great people who never found success in their field, but they still set the platform to help others finish their work. .It is the human experience at its finest.
  • Jan 29 2013: Is not a story filled with devotion, effort, faith and work a meaningful story regardless of how it ends?
  • thumb
    Jan 27 2013: time out will be announced by nature, so you won't have to care about that. the thing is, neither of devotion, effort, faith or work guaranties success. these are pretty much needed, but not sufficient. you can dig a hole, and then fill it up with all the devotion, effort faith and work in the universe, you still end up exactly where you have started. because you also need to do the right thing, the thing that effectively brings you somewhere. so if all of the above fails, change your tactic. understanding how things work helps. we call that science.
  • thumb
    Feb 2 2013: Perhaps, it's about the way, not about the destination... The destination is death, as far as we know.
  • Feb 2 2013: Failure only happens when you give up. Everything else is a learning experience.
  • thumb
    Feb 2 2013: Well....after the brain-storm created by your comments I can finally say that the secret is all in a simple action: TO OPEN.


    The Door

    Go and open the door.
    Perhaps outside
    there's a tree, or a wood,
    or a garden,
    or a magic town.

    Go and open the door.
    Perhaps outside
    there's a dog scratching.
    Perhaps there's a face outside,
    or an eye
    or the picture
    of a picture.

    Go and open the door.
    If there's fog outside
    it will go.

    Go and open the door.
    There could be outside only
    singing darkness,
    and there could be outside only
    wind's hollow breath
    and there could be
    absolutely nothing
    outside,
    go and open the door.

    At least
    there would be
    a draught.


    Miroslav Holub
    • thumb
      Feb 2 2013: PERFECT concept Gogo....be willing, ready and able to open another door. You have heard the saying.....when one door closes, another door opens? We need to be open minded/open hearted and curious enough to perceive another door opening:>)
  • thumb
    Jan 31 2013: Faith and Devotion should be practiced without any expectation for any results. That's not an easy thing to do. But at least it should be acknowledged that this is the real nature of true faith or devotion, and the believer or the devoted should aspire for this state of mind. True faith or devotion are effortless. If one needs to struggle to keep his//her faith or devotion, it means he has still a way to go for reaching the goal of true faith or devotion. If one feels disappointed for not achieving the goals he//she was hoping for by his faith or devotion, it means his faith or devotion are imperfect//faulty. Because pure faith or devotion are egoless, and the disappointment is the evidence that his faith or devotion are just one more mean in our endless earthly attempts to gratify our ego.

    Faith or devotion are tricky in the sense that their inquiry, like the one you started hereby, is originated from the ego. This inquiry by itself can be very gratifying because it reveals rationally the nature of faith or devotion. But unlike the inquiry, their implementation or practice in their highest form is meant to be egoless.
  • thumb
    Jan 31 2013: I get up, go out, and everything is changed. The blood drains from my head, the noise of things bursting, merging, avoiding one another, assails me on all sides, my eyes search in vain for two things alike, each pinpoint of skin screams a different message, I drown in the spray of phenomena."

    "To decompose is to live too, I know, I know, don't torment me, but one sometimes forgets. And of that life too I shall tell you perhaps one day, the day I know that when I thought I knew I was merely existing and that passion without form or stations will have devoured me down to the rotting flesh itself and that when I know that I know nothing, am only crying out as I have always cried out, more or less piercingly, more or less openly. Let me cry out then, it's said to be good for you. Yes let me cry out, this time, then another time perhaps, then perhaps a last time. "

    two quotes from "Molloy" (1951) Samuel Beckett
    • thumb
      Jan 31 2013: Theodore,
      This is beautifully written....kudos to you if you are the author.

      It reminds me of a quote:
      "I have lived on the lip of insanity
      Wanting to know reasons
      Knocking at the door
      It opens
      I've been knocking from the inside"
      (Rumi)

      Gogo,
      I perceive the life adventure as an opportunity to learn, grow and evolve as an individual, while contributing to the whole of humankind. Every single moment is an opportunity to learn something, so I see no "failures" in the life exploration.....I perceive opportunity. For me, there is passion, joy and challenge in exploring everything that presents itself in every moment of the day. I take "time out" every once in awhile to evaluate where I have been, what I have learned, how I will use that information, and what direction I will travel next.

      Life is like climbing a mountain......we may be challenged at certain points when we encounter a very steep slope, and sometimes have to use our skills simply to hold on and continue the climb. Then hopefully, we reach a plateau, where we can rest, recharge and evaluate what our next move will be.

      I also like Lejan's reference to high-tide, low tide and discovering the new shores.

      "A ship in a safe harbor is safe, but that is not what a ship is built for"
      (William Shedd)
      • thumb
        Jan 31 2013: It was late when I posted this, These are two quotes from "Molloy" (1951) Samuel Beckett
        • thumb
          Jan 31 2013: Thanks for clarification Theodore, and for editing the comment to give credit to the author. Very profound quotes.
        • thumb
          Feb 2 2013: Dear Sam(uel) was a very wise guy and maybe it's not by chance that I'm called Gogo. I wish he could take part to our TED conversation...I'm sure he would smile and post:
          "Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness."
          Samuel Beckett

          Thank you Theodore....
  • Jan 28 2013: In my honest and humble opinion, your success is measured in trying already alone. Wether you succeeded in something yes or no is not important. By trying your very best you already succeeded.
  • thumb
    Jan 28 2013: Are you asking when to decide it is time to shift your energy from your present course to work on something else? Or are you asking whether it can be worthwhile to work hard and devotedly and in some cases for a lifetime at something that might not work in the end?
  • thumb
    Jan 28 2013: The only time you fail is when you don’t learn from what you did, and that is also true for any event in your life.

    In the grander scheme of things I’m covering as many possibilities as possible.
    I’m enjoying this life and going to leave the world a better place, in the off chance that this is all there and there is nothing after life.
    Also I’m living life by the nine noble virtues, in the off chase that life is just a pass/fail test.
    Mainly I’m pondering and learning from the events in my life so I will be a better heavenly soul.
  • thumb
    Feb 2 2013: Stay put..find some creative ways to deal with the problem..for one day, the probability of you winning will be 1/1.
  • thumb
    Feb 2 2013: I believe that if you think this way then you are not exhibiting faith to begin with. I am personally a woman of faith and believe that it makes all the difference. Yet for those who are not so sure, when you faith enables you to show compassion to another human being, to clothe a naked child, or feed a hungry man, it makes all the difference if only the person who received that kindness. And when that simple act is done, you have no idea the impact it could have that one life and, in turn, how many lives, that person will impact because you in your faith decided to act in compassion.

    Now on a personal level, I have a personal relationship with the God who created me. He is my Father; He talks to me, teaches me things, chastises me, and, ultimately, enables me to reach the destiny that He created me to fulfill. That is the proof that there are lasting benefits and fruit demonstrating the efficacy of my faith in my God. However, if one's religion does consist of mere routines and a constant reaching without ever finding anything to fill the void within, then I would be as concerned as anyone about the potential failure of my faith. That is no way to live.
  • Feb 2 2013: When can you declare time-out? well my own spiritual leader says that it is your own karma that is not bringing in the results you want, so keep trying as u may never know when your karma of failure is going to end?. If it is in your fate that you shall never be successful then that is it, but of course no one ever has only bad circumstances in their entire life. His advise was that if you've failed for now, then try again after a while (don't know how long a while would mean), but maybe the next time you try you might just make it??? give your failures a break, and when you feel good about yourself then ask your intuition again, let it guide you.

    Try and remember the speech Steve Jobs gave at Stanford university, whereby he was once poor, he kept trying when most of us would have given up, and then we now know how he created the companies he created. I remember him saying that just have faith that the dots shall connect. I know his video is there on ted.com.
  • Feb 1 2013: If you mean nothing afterward - what about while or during? Perhaps the doing is the reward itself. I think that the traits you list are more positively rewarding while we live that way, in how we feel and experience Life now. I don't think that it feels good to be bad or selfish or mean, or slothful, etc, etc. Thusly, those who believe in a God and a Hereafter (of whaetever spiritual or religious flavour), as well as those who do not believe - would benefit now.

    If nothing comes either now or later - and we cannot experience any satisfaction or joy, then perhaps we are just machines doing what we are made to do, with no feelings. At least it helps in our daily interactions with others.
  • thumb
    Jan 31 2013: Thank you to you all.Your comments make sense and I actually thought the same things myself but....we seem to be all dreamers. Unfortunately the real life always asks for a bill to be paid and that's when the big question mark arises, when we can not afford to do what we believe in. And it's awful to face the dilemma between keep going and stop. In the specific, I'm a writer in a country where corruption has spread also to literature. I do not write for myself but for you all 'out there'. I keep receiving letters from publisher and they are all full of praises but....they always end with a 'BUT' that doesn't make any sense.
    Writing is perhaps the most difficult, solitary and generous form of art; I love it for these reasons but what to do if my only dream (being read) doesn't come true?

    Thank you again,
    Gogo
    • thumb
      Jan 31 2013: Gogo,
      Maybe we ARE all dreamers.....and....in my humble perception.....everything starts with a dream:>)

      You say you do not write for yourself? You write for all of us "out there"? Why don't you recognize that you may be doing it for your own pleasure.....is that true?

      Actually, letters giving you praises, and also ending with "BUT", are probably very good feedback, don't you think? Listen to the praise and build on it. Listen also to the "BUT" and learn how you can make your creation more marketable. You say your dream is "being read", so you may have to alter something in your writing to entice people to read and appreciate it?

      I suggest recognizing that you are not only writing for others.....you may be writing for yourself as well. When you recognize all parts of a project, the project tends to be more exciting, and may bring a new energy to your work/play:>)
  • Jan 31 2013: Nothing....
  • thumb

    Lejan .

    • +1
    Jan 31 2013: Questions like these could be takes as a measure for the time has come for having a 'time out'.

    Besides our usual lot of frustration and disappointments, which are part of the game and usually gone by the next 'high-tide', a serious sign to me is to little or no water to return, compared by my 'internal' average, which makes me move to discover new shores... :o)
    • thumb
      Feb 2 2013: Yes, I agree. And maybe following the road to the new shore we arrive where we intended to arrive.... Life moves in circles ;-)
      • thumb

        Lejan .

        • +1
        Feb 2 2013: And as long those circles aren't vicious, we ought to be fine ...

        Sometimes intentional destinations are just initiations to make us move and maybe to find places we like even better and would never have found otherwise. The true beauty of chance ... :o)
  • Jan 30 2013: It's not about the result. What's important in life is who you become, and that has nothing to do with the outward results of your efforts. You can choose to improve regardless of success or failure. I don't care if you're a garbage man or a brilliant corporate executive, it's all about how you love other people and how unselfish you become. But maybe you're talking about your efforts to improve yourself? That's a harder issue. You might need some help in that case. Friends, family, a mentor can all support you. God's there too. I can promise you that.
    • thumb
      Jan 31 2013: Well said. I also don't care if you are a simple coorporate executive or a brilliant sanaitation engineer either. You can always imporve yourself, unless you have some kind of debilitating brain disfunction.

      I can't promise you if God is there but having faith doesn't really hurt anyone.
  • thumb
    Jan 30 2013: The best remedy is to laugh it off, and keep doing what you love doing best. Expectations are sure spoil sport.
  • thumb
    Jan 30 2013: Hello Gogo,

    I want to first direct you to this link.

    http://www.ted.com/conversations/15910/how_can_overly_empathetic_symp.html?c=593563

    Part of this short thread is talking about a poem called "Anyways".

    Here's a link to the poem.

    http://www.paradoxicalcommandments.com/

    I say, if you have a dream, then try, though you may or will fail, then try again, but each time try something different and use your creativity with imagination to continue. Know that you may never get the expected results, but be mindful and live in the moments of your successes and failures. If, at the end of your life, you think nothing comes from your work, then I would disagree with you and ask you to think of every person you affected for good or for worse and all the new paths and knowledge you have created for future individuals to use. =)
  • thumb
    Jan 30 2013: I deal with this all the time and I think the best of all worlds is to have someone you trust give you solid external feedback. Maybe two or three people to make sure you have a good representation of possible options.

    Sometimes we cannot see the mountain we are trying to move because we are too close to it. It helps to have a different viewpoint.

    In the end, we come from nothing, we return to nothing. All is equal if we accomplish nothing
  • Jan 30 2013: The whole idea of success is problematic to begin with, since most people don't fully understand themselves how can they really truly know what they want?

    It usually takes years before one understands one's limitations and to live within those limits. All human beings are subject to the laws of nature and hence not everyone can 'be successful' through sheer logic of how nature operates.

    If nothing comes from your devotion to something that means you never thought clearly about yourself or the world to begin with to be able to predict in some general sense whether or not you are capable of enduring the risks of things not working out on the paths you take.

    All life is risk, so one should simply seek to think clearly and either 1) accept those risks regardless of outcome or 2) mitigate those risks (live within your limits).
  • thumb

    W. Ying

    • +1
    Jan 30 2013: ..
    .
    Let us edit it into:
    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. ‘Ever think before, in between and after whole-night SLEEP.' Try Again. Fail again. ‘Ever think before, in between and after whole-night sleeping.' Fail better." .... ‘Succeed mostly before 'time-out'.


    (For SLEEP, see the 1st article, point 12 (3), at https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D&id=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D%21283&sc=documents.)
  • thumb
    Jan 29 2013: I would say: try intelligence, logic, re-evaluation and learning.

    The definition of Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.- Albert Einstein
  • thumb
    Jan 29 2013: Are you trying to discover what you are good at, or are you trying to do what others think you should be doing. Find your passion and maybe you won't fail. The truth has to come from within.
  • thumb
    Jan 29 2013: When your truly devoted to something the rewards are not always external. Sometimes you will receive praise from others in response to your passion, effort, and commitment. At other times the praise needs to come from within you through your soul and faith. This becomes tough when life is truly hard. This being said, failure is not always something we choose and can just add to doubt. But when you have the opportunity to choose how failure will affect you, that's when the power is in your hand and the freedom to truly care for yourself.
  • Jan 28 2013: if nothing comes from our effort, it is because we din't put all our devotion in our work because if we had done that we could had say: "this comes from my work!" and then we will be much happier with ourself!
  • Jan 28 2013: I think your question means to me:
    what if at the end of your life, you find that nothing worked, nothing worked out, everything was a dead end?

    Some suggest the silver lining is, "what did you learn?"
    Apparently, one didn't give up but didn't learn how to give up.

    "Doing it wrong" doesn't' sound like the right answer to me. That's just judgment.

    Ghandi said, "Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it."

    So, to finally answer your question, "if nothing comes, then nothing comes."
  • Jan 28 2013: Of course your question is very general....it is difficult to answer.

    Failure would be to do something over and over in the same way and getting the same bad results and not realizing that you have to change the way you are doing things.

    Just learn from your failures, and change how you do things.

    Sometimes we want to see the results of our devotion and effort quickly....we have a time limit.....but more often than not success requires diligence and perseverence.

    Success is attainable.......Look at this TED talk on success:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_st_john_s_8_secrets_of_success.html
  • thumb

    Gail .

    • +1
    Jan 28 2013: There is no failure. If I can learn from something, I have succeeded. If I learn that a certain talent is not my forte, I can learn that and move on to something else. When something loses its joy (the challenge is gone), it's time to move on. I am not the world's best pianist, nor will I ever be, but I still enjoy my piano.
  • Jan 28 2013: If the effort is not the enjoyment, you're probably doing it wrong.
    • thumb
      Jan 28 2013: for example, our great ancestors obviously enjoyed the hell out of mammoth hunting, in the freezing cold, barefoot, with spears and stones, risking injury or death. if not, they were doing it wrong.
      • Jan 28 2013: I think that on some level they may have. We still have people who willingly sit for hours in the cold and wet while waiting for the opportunity to prove their skills as hunters. The obstacles add to the pride of accomplishment, they don't diminish it.
  • thumb
    Jan 27 2013: I believe that as you do anything, you will get feedback of some kind or another from other people. It is important to keep listening to them. If you find they are raising objections to whatever you are doing, you must listen to the objections and see if you think they're right or wrong. If you think they're wrong, present your reasons for continuing to do whatever you are doing, and see what they say. Possibly they will change their mind and support you. Possibly they will disagree with whatever you just said, and give their reasons why. If they disagree, you can think about what they said. If what they said seems true, you may have to change and give up your project; or if you disagree, you can present your reasons why you continue to disagree. In this way, with this back-and-forth conversation, the truth will emerge whether your project is a good one. You must always keep an open mind that you might be wrong.
  • thumb
    Feb 3 2013: The measure of failure is not attempting to live a a decent life with no self-centered expectations for reward

    As for time out, well that will happen soon enough as part of the natural process.
  • thumb
    Jan 31 2013: Of course I write also for myself because it gives me infinite pleasure (even though it's very hard) but -believe me- the 'BUT' are not something you might build on. I give you one :'Your book is too good for an Italian audience'. Yhis of course, pens a can of worms regarding the social-political issues we have here.

    But I'll go on...
    Thank you, Colleen!
    • thumb
      Jan 31 2013: Gogo,
      Yes, we CAN indeed build on the "BUT".

      I was a professional actor for awhile, and when I started auditioning for roles, I thought the casting directors had the same imagination as I did, and could see that I could play the roles. Often times, they would say....you can act, sing and dance ok, but you don't look the part. Well, I know that with make-up hair and costume we can look almost ANY part. So, I started showing up for auditions "looking" the part. Guess what? I started getting the jobs!

      I altered my perception and practices to "fit" what they wanted, so I could get what I wanted.....make any sense?

      If they are telling you your book is too good for an Italian audience, have you tried to market it somewhere else....to a different audience?