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Rhona Pavis

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It may grossly elevate the well-being of all members of our society to separate money income from "work." I wonder how we can do that.

There is much poverty, fear and anguish related to the work-for-money system we now have. People may be more productive of valuable goods and services, if they were freed to produce services and goods that are inspired by things other than money needed for survival. Seems worth a try.

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  • Robert Haacke

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    Jan 29 2013: So are you saying that people should NOT be required to provide enough useful goods and/or services to provide for their own needs? If no one is required to provide for themselves then who is going to do it for them? If you are able to find some space alien or otherwise improbable donors somewhere should those donors be voluntary or forced? If voluntary then you are asking that people live off of charity. If forced you are asking them to be slavers. Doesn't sound practical either way.

    • Rhona Pavis 50+

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      Jan 30 2013: Robots, perhaps.
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        W. Ying 10+

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        Feb 12 2013: .
        Hi Rhona,

        Not need robots!
        Please see my Jan 27 2013 comment herein below.

        • Rhona Pavis 50+

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          Feb 12 2013: I did see your January 27, 2013 post. I see you are very analytical. I cannot remember thinking about preserving my DNA while seeking or experiencing happiness. In ways people are similar and different. Perhaps you are motivated by DNA preservation and I am motivated by elevating my feelings of happiness in the current time periods of my wonderful life. Thank you for your inputs to this conversation. Happy Today.
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      W. Ying 10+

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      Feb 12 2013: .
      Hi Robert,

      People will voluntarily provide for themselves!
      Please see my Jan 27 2013 comment herein below.
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    Fritzie Reisner 100+

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    Jan 27 2013: Hi, Rhona. I agree that at least for many of us, it is terrifically gratifying to work hard at things just because we are commited to them rather than because we get paid for it.

    I think this is one reason volunteerism is so popular across income strata, but also many if not most people love to do good, uncompensated work in informal ways- building things (look at the whole DIY)movement), gardening, helping others even in the Drew Dudley sort of way, artistic undertakings, and social entrepreneurship. It is a way of life and a big part of life for so many.

    • Rhona Pavis 50+

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      Jan 27 2013: So now we just need to figure out a way to get money to people that is adequate for people to live in health and dignity, so they can spend their valuable energy and creativity making products and services that are valuable. I do not see the relationships between the need for money (and what it buys) and the ability, desire and actual production of goods and services. If they are indeed separate, let's separate them - money income/production of services and goods. It may improve the general sanity of the population, reducing crime and other undesirable social behavior.
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        Fritzie Reisner 100+

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        Jan 27 2013: This might be taking us a little off your direction, but there are some activities that need to get done that are not the sorts of things that people enjoy doing but that get done because people get something in return beyond their own gratification. Sewer maintenance might be an example.

        Further what needs to get done to support life in urban areas may not have the same profile as everyones first choices of how to spend their time. If you think of things large numbers of people love to do- art, study/learning, conversation, exercising, giving advice, some kinds of outdoor things... and then think of infrastructure sorts of needs (like waste management and various sorts of maintenance/cleaning functions), they don't line up well enough, probably, to assume everything would just get done by someone who would love to do it.

        • Rhona Pavis 50+

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          Jan 28 2013: Fritzie, I hear you. You have a good point. Perhaps extra incentives could be built in for those jobs. The current system seems to be a form of slavery, although at a higher level than the slavery of the past. Let's develop a system that will generate more satisfaction and joy for all participants, while being fair. We can do it.
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    Gail . 50+

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    Jan 27 2013: Our system is not so much based on "work for money". It's based upon the few being able to hire others to work for them in order to create their own wealth at the expense of the most. It's a slavery-based system.

    I favor discarding money altogether.
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    Krisztián Pintér 200+

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    Jan 27 2013: i call such recommendations "something else solutions". what we have now is unpleasant, so we need something else. something else obviously does not have the problems of today, since it is something else. but we can't tell what the downside is, since we don't know what we are talking about. the bottom line is that something else has pros and no cons.

    i know how to build a better bridge: don't use concrete and steel, but something else that is stronger and lighter.

    of course it does not work that way. we can not compare the current system to a hypothetical system that is not explained. it is daydreaming.

    • Rhona Pavis 50+

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      Jan 27 2013: Kris, So rather than take a chance with the unknown, you prefer to stick with a system that you know is not working to generate the joy and well-being for the majority that we purport to value?
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    Ken brown 30+

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    Jan 27 2013: Well, everything has been tried, Socialism only brought about millions upon millions of death in the last hundred years and yet everyone keeps coming back to it. People might have to try the road of the purple again, elect a dictator or a Monarchy.

    • Rhona Pavis 50+

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      Jan 27 2013: "Everything has been tried?!!?!? Well, here we are. Ken, if you are right, this is it, this is the end of civilization. I suppose people made that comment in the year 343 and 1105 and 1912 and so on. Get real. The future is full of positive possbilities and positive probabilities. Seekpositive/Findpositive. Happy Today.
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        Ken brown 30+

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        Jan 28 2013: Well, we haven't tried Islamic law yet, Sharia law? that hasn't been tried on a global scale or Atheism. I know Japanese culture has a silent rule of extra time given to work as voluntary but expected. There is one possible way but i can't quite get it to formulate properly. Outlaw the word Gender but then that reeks of the smell of socialism.

        Most of my countries human services are heavily reliant on volunteers, Hospitals, ambulance, firefighters etc etc. You want positive, emigrate.There's nothing more positive than seeing a immigrant flushed with beginning new somewhere. I understand what you mean Rhona but whether you can change human nature and our natural inclination with exchange is a different kettle of fish.

  • george lockwood 20+

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    Jan 27 2013: Maybe this is a little strong and nontraditional.
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    W. Ying 10+

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    Jan 27 2013: .
    Simple !

    (1) Just quit all harmful INVALID (untrue, unreal, ineffective) happiness !!
    (2) Then, we can save about 90% of the “valuable goods and service”.
    (3) Sure, “People may be more productive of valuable goods and services” driven by the happiness from SYMBIOSIS.


    (For INVALID (ineffective) happiness, see the 1st article, points 1-3, 14, at https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D&id=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D%21283&sc=documents)
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    Feyisayo Anjorin 50+

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    Jan 27 2013: One of the great ideas that would hardly work because the love of money has a way of standing in the way of an essential ingredient:UNITY
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