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Based upon a discussion we are having in the Idea area, I wonder - how do you define morality and why? Where does your definition come from?
I have been working on curriculum for college students that incorporates literature and the notion of being a moral, ethical person; it is clear that I need to step back and first come up with a clearer definition of morality or ethics.
Topics:
College Education Ethical morality
Alex Velazquez
David Grammer
Experience, common sense, observation, wishful thinking.
Peter Law 30+
Hebrews 10:16 (KJV)
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
The rules we should live by are hard-wired by our creator. In order that we may have free choice, we can overcome them by deliberately ignoring them, but the fact remains - they are present in each one of us.
:-)
greg dahlen 20+
You know, that's another area you don't see examined in morality, the importance of being true to yourself and investing in your own growth.
Ellen Feig 500+
This is all very circular thinking and may simply be impossible to define but what happens when each of us or each group has their own idea of what is moral or ethical? Would that lead us to potentially hurt others in the name of our own sense of morality? If I am brought up in a culture that says it is okay to kill in the name of a higher power, that in fact it is ethical to do so, does it make that moral?
Linda Taylor 50+
Values dictate morals (how we act towards others) and ethics (how we talk about morals personal or shared)
There is no overarching morality although here in the west we like to pretend there is one. In some societies cannibalism is practiced perfectly moral and ethical. In past societies human sacrifice was the norm. We can only navigate value systems and come to social values and morays when we move into community. Those can eventually translate into law.
It's pretty linear to me but navigating value systems takes practice. The more cultures and value systems you are exposed to the easier it gets.
Most, if not all, conflicts can be broken down into a clash of value systems. Everything from abortion to immigration to gun control to euthanasia (hmm human sacrifice??)
I would recommend you see if you can get your hands on an open source syllabus for biomedical ethics. It might be a good start for the ethics piece. Most hospitals have an ethics board. You might want to see if they would have any board development documents that could help.
Kate Blake 50+
To have a job she is passionate about is far healthier than getting squids in the bank, but then it also helps if you can cover the bills. In that we live within our means.
And Ellen you are a great teacher because you are still questioning ....
Kate Blake 50+
Morals to me mean more a personal, cultural subjective idea of good/bad, right/wrong.
Ethics seems a more generalised societal opinion of good/bad, right/wrong.
Both are strongly influenced by our values both as individuals and the norms of the society we live within.
For me personally is boils down to living in harmony as opposed to anything that might harm others.
Ellen Feig 500+
Kate Blake 50+
I think most of us are fairly ego based, self-focused - it often takes a big aha ah moment to get us thinking a bit more deeply and generating genuine concern for others. There seems to be a very troubled age where there is an excess of experimentation, competition, hormones happening. This is a difficult time and too many struggle to grow out of it ie suicide. And we grow out of it at different ages.
But somehow when we are confronted with big ones - mortality, a serious illness, etc we begin to define our values/ethics more clearly. We begin to make them more of a priority in our life. Now some manage this at 7 or 8 years, many not until we hit 30 ... meanwhile that self-absorption somehow blocks that real care for others that I believe we all have.
A book I found intriguing was "Ethics for a New Millennium" by the Dalai Lama, his words seem to resonate with those of all backgrounds it is solid basic stuff we often don't articulate too well.
W. Ying 10+
Morality is the rules of SYMBIOSIS. They are our ancestors’ successful experiences formed 10,000 years ago and saved in our DNA.
SYMBIOSIS makes humankind survivable.
(For SYMBIOSIS, see the 1st article, points 4-8, at https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D&id=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D%21283&sc=documents)
Gail . 50+
Where do my definitions come from? From observing life happening around me and by becoming self-aware.
Chetan Somani
George QT
Ethics is another art, the art of making responsible decisions by properly pondering the damaging and beneficial consequences of such act.
So morality is basically irrational while ethics is basically rational. Morality is about choosing what's right while ethics is about choosing what's best, but right and best may be different things, and even opposite. Thus,each human act can fall into 4 categories:
1.- moral and ethical
2.- immoral but ethical
3.- ethical but immoral
4.- immoral and unethical
Salim Solaiman 50+
Can I get examples of # 2 & 3 category (example explains things in a clearer way at least to me) ?
Gail . 50+
In America, gay marriage is immoral to many, whereas gay marriage (equal treatment under the law) is ethical to a growing number of people (now a majority of Americans). Soon, gay marriage will be both moral and ethical except for a few fundamentalist religious people who believe differently.
Example 2: After 7 years of trying, my sister was finally pregnant. A sonogram showed that the fetus did not have a brain. It only had a brain stem. The "thing" that would never have the capacity to know that it was alive, would live for anywhere from 3 months to 6 years. The costs to the family would be more than financial. In addition to banktrupting them, it would have required so much effort and attention that the already living child would have paid a very real and severe price. If the parents gave up the unadoptable child (immoral) it would have placed a great and unfair burden on community (government) that would have had to pay people to take care of it (also immoral). Thus, they arrived at the conclusion that though immoral (in their belief system), an abortion was ethical.
#3 and #2 mean the same thing
Salim Solaiman 50+
To me it's difficult to draw line between Morality & Ethics....at times these sound synymous to me.
The way @ Kate Blake tried to draw line between these two in her post above seems convincing one...even taking that in consideration..
The first example you gave seems to me is not a dilemma of morality vs ethics rather it's inability of law system to evolve as quick as personal morality / ethical standard of group in society evolved.
Rreally appreciate your sharing personal story that brings things in the perspective how theoretical things can impact our lives (sincerely trying to feel what kind of pain your family went through to take that decision).The decision taken is absolutely moral to me but may not be Ethical from societal view point....
George QT
Category 3... is moral but unethical
Example of category 2: You eat human flesh as your only survival resource, it is clearly immoral but if you don't have any thing else to eat and you are starving I think it is ethical.
Example of category 3: A single medical doctor going to bed with an adult patient, it is not immoral as both are adults, single and consented, but it is clearly unethical.
pat gilbert 50+
Ethics is best defined as survival. Survival is not a yes or no, there are infinite degrees of survival, as it is survival of all life.
greg dahlen 20+
I guess I've cobbled together a morality from many sources--things I've read, people I've met, experiences I've had. I probably follow the 10 commandments except the ones about god since i'm an atheist. To some degree I really value feeling--one brings many influences to any one situation, and, using those influences and thinking about the current situation, one does what feels right.
Ellen Feig 500+
greg dahlen 20+
One thing I don't see mentioned much in studies of morality is courage. Do you agree? Why wouldn't courage be mentioned? It often takes courage to be moral, for instance to stand up for an unpopular position one believes is right.
Ellen Feig 500+
Mark Kurtz 20+
Could we assume morals 10,000 years ago are the same as today, i.e. there always have been morals for humankind to discover? Or are morals a collection of good human beings recognize as valuable for all persons, the collection amassed by experience? I like to the think both as correct. Morals infers relationship with others; a loner not relating has no comparison.
Now, if morals are accepted ideals and people relate kindly, respectfully, and are tolerant for their harmless behavior, then being immoral would suggest behavior not found to be in harmony with the epitome of human understanding of right and good behavior. Consider for example, if two persons want a marriage, a family and children are in the home who need guidance, love, training for future self reliance, would it not be immoral for one of the adults to have an extra marital affair which threatens the family? Consider any other example of relating to persons that result in harm. Anything. Being not in harmony with the larger definition, amassed over large amounts of time in culture and law, seems immoral to me. Apply this to any life situation.
Consider adults squander family funds on drugs or maybe adult toys and hobbies while family is in need of care. Is that out of harmony with the larger definition? I think so.
So, for me it boils down to quality of relationships. Being moral means love, caring, sensitivity, respect---any behavior not threatening to others.
Could these thoughts fit into your definitions somehow? To me these are ideas worth spreading.
Thanks for a great topic.
Ellen Feig 500+
Mark Kurtz 20+
Good topic!
Linda Taylor 50+
Sorry posted this in the other discussion.
Values come from experience. The rest is sequale to values. That is all.
Don Anderson 20+
1. Courage
2. Truth
3. Honour
4. Fidelity
5. Discipline
6. Hospitality
7. Self-Reliance
8. Industriousness
9. Perseverance
Although history books tell us that they came from the Vikings, I would say the route of all virtues developed from the unique ability humans have to think ahead.
In that the desire to be better in the future would not arise without the ability to think ahead.
One reason I really like them is because interlock/interact with each other, much like the triangles of the Valknut. (That I believe symbolize them) AI; it take discipline to have perseverance, and it take perseverance to be discipline. The truth gives you courage, and it takes courage to see the truth. Etc. etc.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Ellen Feig 500+
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Or do you mean the specific mechanisms through which people reached their values through their cultural contexts?
Ellen Feig 500+
Mary M. 100+
not to the page defining morality.
Are you able to copy paste the definition for our benefit?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
The definition is too long to paste here, or I would do it for us.