Student - A.S. Firearms Repair, Retired - Military

This conversation is closed.

What Is The True Reason For Mass Murder And Gun Violence?

Gun Violence has many facets. Numbers reporting gun violence from different organizations seem to never closely correlate to one another. How can we as Americans penetrate the rhetoric to have meaningful discussions regarding gun violence and mass murder?

  • Jan 10 2013: Barry Palmer said,

    "We need a professional, independent, unbiased investigation and analysis of all of the relevant factors."

    You are never going to get that.That is like saying we need honest,ethical, humane, incorruptable, moral leaders.

    You, we, will never get any of that in a system that is inherently, essentially and intrinsically, unjust and corrupt by default because that kind of system can only function with corruption, unethical leaders, and leaders who tell the citizens to be moral when they are anything but. Profit and power come to those who are dishonest and who deceive the voters, who by the way are completely deceived because they still vote!!

    The murders are set up, instigated and used solely to get your weapons from you. You must not forget, it is the criminals that are in power. They are not in jail.

    Never give up what the Constitution gave you for your own protection from, and they spell it out for you, your government!!!

    They are taking away so the citizens can only take back. Voting will never work. Fairness and justice will never prevail unless it is done by the citizens of the un-United States.
  • thumb
    • Jan 10 2013: Thank you for sending me the link Gilbert. I hope his voice is louder than the people who are unwilling to think outside the box. I have some other thoughts I'd like to share with Mr. Piazza if he's able to listen.
      • thumb
        Jan 10 2013: On the off chance you have not noticed we are in the minority
  • Jan 9 2013: Letter to the POTUS 29 December 2012 - I hope someone would read...

    Mr. President,

    Every facet of who I am compels me to write this letter to you. My name is Charles Clingensmith CPO USN Retired (2011), I am a veteran, patriot, husband of a Kindergarten teacher, father of two amazing little boys (3/8), and a student of Gunsmithing at Lassen Community College.

    During my military career I had many opportunities and experiences to work with amazing people, including serving at SEAL Team One as the Intel Chief for LT Matthew Flavin; recently the former White House Director of Veterans and Wounded Warrior Policy. I had the distinct pleasure of serving with Matt from late 2004 until he resigned his commission in 2007. In my 20 years in the Navy there has never been a better Naval Officer to serve under.

    The purpose of writing you is a desire to open a dialogue regarding the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School on December 14th. I pray for the families of those lost that day and am fiercely proud of the teachers and administrators that stood up to the gunman. Never before in my life have I been so affected by a tragedy such as what happened that day. Just like many Americans I have witnessed my share of tragedy: My wife and I watched the events of September 11th 2001 unfold on television while stationed in Japan; while I deployed with SEAL Team Three in 2006 the command faced the loss of Marc Lee; I visited my friend Dan Cnossen at Bethesda Naval Medical Hospital after he lost his legs in Afghanistan, and on August 6th 2011 I mourned the loss of soldiers I had served with, Aaron (Chainsaw) Vaughn and JT Tumilson, while deployed with SEAL Team One in 2005 and 2007.
  • Jan 9 2013: Sir, it is my hope that we, as Americans will actually have a comprehensive, thoughtful, common sense debate regarding gun control. To date, I am utterly disappointed by representation on both sides of this issue. One side would have us believe the other is attempting to take all guns and the slightest restriction leads down the road of complete denial of Constitutional rights. The other is trying to convince us that any and all guns are evil, the people who have guns are evil; if we ban all the bad guns then no one would get hurt or die. This type of logic from both sides is egregious especially when our elected officials (GOP and DEM) use ignorance to push an agenda. The outrage over Sandy Hook has propelled Politicians to scream for more gun regulations but I fail to see how banning guns is the answer. I agree 100% with the idea of closing loopholes and holding those accountable who break or skirt the law. Facts are facts, no matter how people spin them; you can’t get away from the math. There is a middle ground that both sides cannot seem to find and are unwilling to compromise in order to do so.

    Why aren’t we addressing the issue that will have the most impact on these incidents, “What is the root cause of the dissolution of these individuals that it makes it OK to conduct atrocities like Sandy Hook?” But, if we are to focus on guns as the sole answer then lets admit that America is woefully negligent in finding a real solution to the problem and our children are still at risk.
  • Jan 9 2013: As an intelligence analyst I always found it interesting that the general public made decisions with little in the way of facts. Emotions move people in one direction or another and I believe it is your administration’s responsibility to keep the conversation grounded in facts. Figures from the FBI, CDC and other agencies indicate the issue of gun violence is more complex than what is being reported via the news or on the web. There are so many different ways to interpret the data that I believe an outside, non-governmental or political, organization needs to look at the information; specifically, the organization that has been utilized extensively by SOF Commands in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I recommend utilizing the people from Palantir, as your administration did when investigating stimulus fraud in 2010. I firmly believe the people at Palantir can give you the most comprehensive look into the reality of gun violence.

    As a father I find myself searching for the reasons why anyone would want to take the lives of innocent people in such a horrific manner and I want to contribute, somehow. At this time it seems that some are more focused on their political agenda vice determining how to prevent these types of attacks from occurring in the future. I would like to think that we as Americans would be able to set aside the hyperbole and truly focus on the issue at hand, taking care of our children. I consider myself a very pragmatic individual (I believe you are as well) and will let the facts guide my decision making process.

    Thank you for your time and looking forward to your response.

    Very Respectfully,
    Charles Clingensmith CPO USN (RET)
  • Feb 9 2013: I appreciate everyone posting their ideas. As I have figured out over the past two months, this issue is too broad to beagle to blame one area. Unfortunately there are too many who are too vocal about the object of violence and too few focusing on the root cause(s). It will be a travesty when these attacks continue and more innocent lives lost. The political machine will cost us our future.

    Thanks again for participating.

  • Feb 8 2013: Let me first start this off by saying I don't care one way or another about whether we should or shouldn't have guns. I don't own any guns, never will. I don't think banning guns will do anything because much like illegal drugs, these people will find a way to obtain guns no matter the laws in place. At the same time, I do think there is no harm in banning assault rifles or even more specifically, large magazines. What use is there for these? I will say many people have gun hobbies and I respect that, so that would be the only reason why any ban would be difficult for me (on the gun itself, not referring to magazines).

    As for the true reason? I'm not sure. A lot of these people have mental issues but how can you detect that? A lot of the most prolific mass murderers are incredibly intelligent people despite their horrible acts. A lot of the times you hear how, "Well, I would have never expected that to happen! He was a nice kid." So if it is a mental issue, how can it be detected and prevent those from obtaining guns? These mental issues only come up after the fact because, well, it's pretty obvious you have mental issues upon committing an act of this magnitude. Before that, who the hell knows? No mental test will ever work because these guys are extremely smart. Ignoring the issue of mental treatment is moot because everyone sees a majority of these killers as normal people who may just be a little quirky. You don't go out and say "Oh yeah, that guy totally looks like a mass killer. Someone should look into this guy." It's not until after the fact everyone goes pointing fingers with the whole "We need to quit ignoring mental health issues." Sorry, but the problem is the killers themselves who will never speak up on their problems. I doubt there is any fix.

    Fact of the matter is, it's a mental issue with these people. I wouldn't care one way or the other if there was a ban to some extent (not completely) on guns. I just don't see it making much of a difference.
  • Jan 13 2013: First, we need to stop blaming the guns for the issues of gun violence. We need to come to the understanding, from all parties, that guns are tools of the violence, but not the cause. Yes, access to them increases the ease of killing, but they do not pick themselves up and begin firing. As silly as that sounds, this must be a common ground all can agree too.

    Second, we need to come from a standpoint that we actually want to fix the problem. Most of the rhetoric, on both sides, is based on the keeping or removal of firearms. Well, that is wonderful, but it does not address any root problem. It is kind of like debating whether to take your car keys away from you because you are an alcoholic. You could take the car keys away, but they are still an alcoholic. You fixed nothing.

    Finally, we have to accept responsibility for the creation of people who would pick up a firearm and commit murder. Or at least that we could play a part in that process of prevention but we did nothing. Most major events such as the recent shooting have someone stating that they knew the person was likely to commit violence but did nothing.

    We must address the root issues of the problem, including mental health which is generally ignored by many in the population. We must seek the root problem and have a desire to fix it. Right now, we want the quick fix, the instant gratification that we did something. Until we are ready to face deep rooted issues in our society of health and welfare, safety, mental health, and poverty, we are not ready to truly discuss how to deal with the outcomes.
  • Jan 11 2013: Kate - I agree with 90% of what your saying, but I think the problem is much larger and more insidious than just "culture." Look at how the US has changed in the last 60 years; as a standard people in the US don't really "want" for anything. Our standard of living is pretty much the best in the world for all classes of our society. I was deployed to the Southern Philippines (Counter Terrorist Operations that the media all but ignores). Just 5 of us...the people down there have nothing..and the people in local government positions are extremely poor by our standards. I point this out because I think our country is becoming unfocused. Where this very general thought really starts to take affect is in parenting or lack there of. I sometimes wonder if...because both parents work, are too tired to spend one on one time with their kids, are too quick to diagnose ADD/ADHD..etc...we are no longer providing our children the skill set to deal with emotional issues that arise. Are we as a nation suppressing the needs of our children and not providing the guidance when things are tough for them. Have these recent incidents been a cry for help from our lost generation?
    • Comment deleted

      • Jan 11 2013: Sorry...Hope this is better...

        Thank you for you thoughts, I agree with everything you are saying. I'm finding your point regarding fame interesting. To quote (someone) "Fame is a fickle thing." I think when you throw the need to be "seen" by someone, anyone (or everyone) the drive to do something outrageous increases. I does still come down to mentorship and parenting. All the negative emotions of growing up need to be tempered with nurturing, strong hands.
  • thumb
    Jan 10 2013: I don't know, Charles. Jealousy is a big factor in human relationships. In fact, I think of it as a pun, if you say the word "jealousy" out loud it sounds like "jail."

    Really, though, don't you see violence in every culture, whether it's communist, capitalist, primitive, advanced? So I don't know that we can blame the culture. I sometimes think we can't isolate one overriding factor, that every story of violence has its own details, motives, relationships.
  • thumb
    Jan 10 2013: Thank you for serving the people of the United States. You begin your post with a question about the true reason, the root cause, and you end with a second question about how we can discuss the matter. The second question can only be answered by building upon the answer to the first one. Why is there murder and violence? Because the power of Evil is active in the world. Good vs. Evil is the story of life. Destroying the works of Evil is the reason the Son of God was manifested [First John 3:8 KJV]. Mass murder and gun violence is a manifestation of the Evil in men's hearts. The solution is for mankind to love one another and that is only possible through the Son of God as explained in the Holy Bible. Violence is a spiritual problem. Natural efforts like gun-control will not solve a spiritual problem.
  • thumb
    Jan 10 2013: So Biden gets an independent in? Then what? The circus starts up and link wars starts all over again.

    It seems to me that the gun is in your blood, it was there before your country was created and it is an unofficial founding father so, the obvious is to arm everyone. I don't agree with this but it might be the only option for your country.

    What happens when you want to take your gun on a plane?
  • Jan 10 2013: I agree with your approach.

    This whole issue has been a media circus, and the politicians are more guilty than most in their abuse of this issue.

    We need a professional, independent, unbiased investigation and analysis of all of the relevant factors.