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Since the Monetary system is man made, why do we allow debt, inflation, starvation etc... to persist? Can the system be transformed?

Money is a social system where value can be moved and recognized on a global scale, but at its very core it is still man made. It is not sentient by any stretch of the imagination, it is controlled by man.

Would a better system be one that allows Money to, only have labor value?

The current system allows Money to be made from Money, which places more value in Money itself, than the necessary labor to produce goods or services.

In essence "The Emperor's New Clothes" we make something from nothing.

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      Gail .

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      Jan 5 2013: Impressive reply. Well said!!!
      • Jan 6 2013: I remember reading one of your post concerning the economy, sorry I cannot recall the topic but I remember the Avatar, and your message.

        Basically saying the same thing that Money is an established social system, where power is the driving factor. I paraphrase.

        Made me think.
    • Jan 6 2013: Hi Mark

      This is a start, although I think Ted conversations may be preaching to the choir, but it is a start.
  • Jan 7 2013: Just heard of a very good example of what I am talking about... NASA received funding, 4.1 million, to search for dangerous asteroids.

    A possible Mass exticntion event will only get 4.1 million! A drop in the bucket.

    Not very good for society
  • Jan 6 2013: Depending on your definition of "money" (which you really should define when starting a conversation about it) there are alternatives for the monetary system and not all of them require perfect government or perfect people. An example of such an alternative is the "energy accounting" system developed by the technocratic movement.
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      • Jan 7 2013: "Isn't everything we do in essence already energy exchange?"

        Yes, that's why energy has intrinsic value to everyone and that's the reason energy accounting was proposed as a replacement for the monetary system.

        "Don't we trust reality to keep perfect score ;). But no, we want insight into the books, and control over them."

        I don't think you know what energy accounting is...


        Energy accounting doesn't keep tabs on nature (where the hell did you get that idea?), it keeps tabs on the consumption of people and production processes to make sure that if I order a chair the chair factory has enough energy to produce a chair and also to make sure some people, in their infinite greed, don't use up all the world's energy, finally it allows society to watch for over-consumption (beyond sustainible levels) of natural resources.
      • Jan 7 2013: Hi Mark

        Your comments are very insightfull, they remind me of James Burke. In one series he describes Man as just redefining the Universe, through discovery, which is not discovery, just a different version of the way things are.

        Trying to remember which series that came from!!
      • Jan 7 2013: Found it, "Balanced Anarchy" James Burke. From "The Day the Universe Changed"
    • Jan 7 2013: Money has been defined, be it gold or naval lint, any currency where value has been placed and recognized on a global scale.

      I agree, nature has its own books, we try to account by offering control. What still worries me is how that control is dealt out.
      • Jan 7 2013: "Money has been defined, be it gold or naval lint, any currency where value has been placed and recognized on a global scale."

        That's awfully broad. Our current monetary system is but one of many that could exist by that definition, even without replacing dollars and euros for energy credits, a gold standard would already be different from the current monetary system (but not necessarily better) and still fit your definition of money.
        • Jan 7 2013: Interesting, Would not Energy credits be even more slanted towards industrialization?

          I am a bit lost on Energy Credit being used as a Monetary system.

          If Society can not police itself with the current system, what would be the mechanism that would allow Society to police who obtains the most energy per unit?
      • Jan 8 2013: "Interesting, Would not Energy credits be even more slanted towards industrialization?"

        Yes, but why would that be a problem?

        "If Society can not police itself with the current system, what would be the mechanism that would allow Society to police who obtains the most energy per unit?"

        Things like inflation, investment bubbles and large inheritances are made very difficult, if not impossible, by the very nature of energy credits, so the economic system would change a lot, even if none of the other rules were changed. In addition you could change the rules the same way you could change them for ordinary money, for example with a social dividend and/or guaranteed minimum income.
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    Jan 5 2013: What would the effect be if the us government instead of giving a bailout directly to the banks were to give the banks a payment of some percentage of the mortgages held by the banks? Wouldn't that give the banks the same money while at the same time reducing the burden of debt on individual us mortgage holders? If this idea has any merit, could it be applied now by insisting that any bailout money not repaid to the Us Government be applied to all the mortgages held by the bank equally? Granted this might end up being a small percentage, but any percentage would improve the situation for individual debtors. If this idea has no merit please explain why, and if it is meritorious what can be done to advance the idea?
    • Jan 6 2013: that would have been a very good idea. But a better one would be to issue the money under the guise of buying shares of the banks, so each time they turned a profit the government would get a share, thus increasing revenues in government (yearly), allowing those funds to help alleviate funds and improve infrastructure.
  • Jan 5 2013: Many issues are combined in your dream. Maybe the entire package is a bit large.
    • Jan 7 2013: I hope the "entire package" picks up steam. As for me, just a start, a nudge to get folks to think about the system and how it can be changed.