- Colton Cutchens
- Neosho, MO
- United States
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How much of a right do students have to questioning and independent thinking?
What is your opinion on how much students should be allowed to question? Do they have the right to question if they may see a logical fallacy? If so, how far are they allowed to question it? Why?
In addition: I understand teachers try to allow students to question, but sometimes are limited by the administration (and/or bureaucracy). Why is this?
Topics:
education philosophy thinking
Juliette Zahn 50+
Dale Curran
prakhar porwal
a race without limbering up first would you? Well,
it's the same for the brain. Increasingly teachers are becoming aware of the
benefits of mental warm ups in the lesson. Even
the powers that be have latched on to it with
"Lesson Starters" a vital part of the literacy and
numeracy strategies. (Just make sure they don't
last all lesson like some we have seen!) One secondary school that has introduced such
activities across all areas of the curriculum
reported back that the students who used to be
late weren't late any more as they were the first
ones to want to solve the lateral thinking
challenge or the Dingbat put up at the beginning of the lesson as the students were coming in. It also works to reduce the 'down time' at the
beginning of a lesson as the learners wait for
something to happen, a time that research shows
is a time particularly vulnerable to poor behaviour. Below are some starters that we use and
recommend. Please feel free to use them and
adapt them. In return, if you have some of your
own let us know so we can add them to this page
and help teachers by saving time and improving
their lessons simultaneously.
Spenser Long-Jordan
Derek Day
Limits by the 'administration' must, surely, be down to the financial burden of dealing with a school full of inspired kids incessantly firing questions at increasingly beleaguered teachers?
Ashley Marshall 100+
Joel Beyer
Children, In my opinion, should not only be allowed to question their environments, but they should be encouraged to do so. Curiosity is a wonderful motivator and teacher, and when children want to learn, that's when things really start to stick in their minds.
I personally am an advocate of private and charter schools. The fact of the matter is. that in the case of a teacher. a better paid teacher will bring about the expectation of a better education.
I am not demeaning public school teachers in any way. I have nothing but the highest respect for teachers in general, however, in a public school system the money comes from the government. The government cares almost exclusively about results, specifically results which they can show to the public that they are doing something with their taxpayer dollars.
As a result, we have standardized tests. The school needs to show the government that they are doing a good job through the use of these tests, and so they place importance on them via the teachers. The teachers need to have the students do well on the tests in order to show the school they are doing their job.
Which brings us to our current problem.
Private schools, because they (usually) don't depend on government money to operate, are able to use different methods of teaching, putting emphasis on other ways of learning besides those focused on in standard tests.
Education, even public education isn't free. It could be an idea to put more tax dollars into public schooling, thus enabling the better payment of teachers and so attracting more people to teaching jobs. But I just don't see that happening.
To return to the original question, I think that children should be encouraged to question a point as far as they can. Some children, the ones who ask the question, "why" over and over are the ones who, in the end, will know the answers to questions the contented children never even thought to ask.
Imri Rivas
I think teachers really try to do their job. But laws like NCLB really curb that, and the teachers really don't have a choice. Their input on changing how the educational system works is really limited, if not eliminated entirely. With their pay penalized if the students aren't "advancing", teachers are sort of forcing students to be good test-takers rather than critical thinkers, despite that huge potential we each have.
The reason behind that (warning, I am completely biased on my position, and very opinioniated, but here it comes), is private money. It seems to be the conservative dream to privitize schools for "efficiency", but, to me, its more like a sort of relish for making money of our public schools. Education should be free of money, and taking on the business model has already corrupted our schools enough, taking the educators out of the equation, and allowing for the wealthiest individuals and businesses to decide what or how to teach the students for them.
Erik Nyquist
Yes, you may fill a child's head with facts, you can force them to memorize poetry and multiplication tables. But do they understand the poem? Do they understand the concept of multiplication?
As many find out, the real learning in life often does wait until we are in a situation where we begin to explore new knowledge for ourselves. This is only possible if we have been taught how to properly learn.
The true job of any real educator is to teach students to think; not to give them facts but to teach them how to learn, how to reason, and how to understand.
Then again, perhaps these things cannot really be taught, perhaps they require that the individual have them as innate abilities. I do not know.
Frank destefano
Colton Cutchens
Anne N
Teachers should definitely try to answer the students' questions and encourage independent thinking as far as possible. However, if the student goes so far as to disrespect the opinions that the teacher is trying to give, I feel that the teacher should be allowed to "reel" the student back in.
In a nutshell, I believe that independent thinking and questioning should be done in appropriate manners in appropriate contexts.
Armistral .
There is no such thing as learning without questions and there is no thing above questioning. This is the root of all understanding, being able (or unable) to answer questions. Questions can teach the teacher as much as the student.
So all things considered I consider it more of a responsibility (to yourself and for society) for a student to question.
Great topic!
Chosen Pen
As well, there is the matter of students simply not knowing. I remember my mother not allowing me to skip ahead when I was younger. A working class mother who knew no better. She was scared. Still I graduated early.
At uni, I told my profs I'd be willing to take exams or w/e to show that I knew material - they wouldn't allow it. So some of us are not given options. There are many sides to some single situations. So my past credits, diplomas and what not somehow could not get me exempt from subjects I had already done.
When people begin 'to defend' themselves it must be because they feel attacked. Some teachers make the mistake of promising more than 50% of the students are going to fail such and such course - Or perhaps making certain evaluations and discussing them with other students? Could it be that some students are more sensitive to how the academically inclined is treated and how the 'not so inclined' is treated? Apprehension is real evidence of something. don't ignore it.
That said. Many of us students enter into university not with the expectation that we are going to be taught by persons who know little to nothing about the profession we are getting into. So it hardly needs to be said; ' that you know more than they/we do'. But do appreciate that some of us struggle with our own individual circumstances, as do you, and education needs not become adversarial but can be arbitrarily executed.
I wish you love and life.
And I hope that we can part on a favourable note.
Brock Hardwood
This entire conversation is a non-issue dilemma that simply doesn't exist in any significant way. Academia encourages free thought and questioning like no other place on the planet. That is the real reason some want to undermine education with non-sense like this.
John Moonstroller 20+
I'm going to suggest a way to destabilized a teacher you think is wasting students time.
1. Form a large study group. Make it official.
2. Invite the teacher to a formal discussion in a none school location -- the library offers locations for this.
3. Make sure some adults are there. Professionals in their field would be the best types.
4. Have the list of question in hand and everyone should have a copy, Offer a copy to the teacher before the meeting.
5. Rehearse the discussion before it actually takes place to prevent chaos.
I assure you, the experience will create a heightened sense of value in the teachers mind of each of the students attending. Showing someone you have power and can assert it, makes them less offensive in your direction. You might even establish a rapport with the teacher and become friends.
Action on a problem is always more productive than passively taking a brow beating, especially if that action if organized.
Chosen Pen
Chosen Pen
I felt as though my initial intention somehow got lost in muddy dialogue. I would like to answer your question; It is my answer after several years feeling as you have felt and voicing that feeling in vain.
Students have an ABSOLUTE right to question and think independently. However, one must never intentionally appear naive. The schooling system is as much a BUSINESS as is every other institution. There are few that will appreciate that passing an exam (barely or brilliantly) does not always suffice. And that being able to 'make the grade' is not equivalent with understanding. However, this is the general notion of the world. And when a minority stands up. It will be shown to be the aggressor. And aggression is never met with a level head. Be wise about pursuing your furtherance.
However, I feel that for those of us who truly enjoy learning. For those of us who learn at a quicker rate than others and who fear becoming complacent - there are 'ways to cheat' or alternative methods of feeding our enthusiasm. There is the internet (open-ware is becoming very popular!), as well, make friends with those students who have passed on to the year above you or perhaps seek out a pen pal/ chat pal. In your spare time, ask them questions or ask for direction with regard to your own private research. I have sought out mentors who I felt might be able to answer some of my questions. There are also some unexpected treasures you may come across. Beware that you may face a similar attitude from MOST persons older than you but not all. Be patient and you'll find the clues you need to discovering academic fulfilment. This conversation should enlighten you, however, to the fact that education is not the democracy we would hope it is. If all the answers were offered to you freely there would be little reason for tuition or for a masters degree and of course 'no way to separate the weak from the strong' - an archaic abstract that persists today.
I wish you luck.
Tracey Thornton
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Some months back, as an example, I ran across an educated person who believed that Americans are either trained/educated or disposed to trust what other Americans claim and to distrust claims made by those who are not Americans. I would sooner have said that Americans are trained/educated to question most of what anyone claims, regardless of where the speaker is from!
John Moonstroller 20+
What is being revealed here (IMO) is the fact the learning environment, which is not completely functional, creates an atmosphere where the relationship between teacher and students are strained. This causes everyone to behave in a defensive manner rather than one where the free and open exchange of ideas can be played out.
My question to some of the teenagers here is, how can the school environment be altered to promote a better environment, conducive to the free and open exchange of ideas between teacher and student? What do you think prevents this environment from being established?
Parth Mahida
and we ask questions to our friends because they will understand us because professors are not like our friends so they understand us always try to make joke of student question for just keep their respect in classroom.All of us fear from professors if we misbehave with them they will detain us. thats why i just stay from them......
John Moonstroller 20+
"...how can we ask questions to those who dont have ability to answer our question." Your question answers itself my friend. Ask a rock instead and you have the same situation. You would not ask a rock because you know, beforehand that the rock does not know the answer. Instead, you search for the answer in other locations or from other people. There are many notable Engineers in India who would be willing to answer your question. I would suggest forming a study group, which will increase your odds of finding the answers you seek.
Chosen Pen
I also always appreciate teachers that are understanding and knows that I have burdens. A simple 'I understand' makes me work much more harder.
I think the biggest downfall of education is that we are expected to have a certain amount of knowledge at a certain point and thus taught a certain amount of knowledge at a certain point. It is cyclical, this gauge that is used. I have been kicked out of a class for 'knowing too much' or asked to stay quiet because apparently I had an advantage over the other students. I dropped out. If anyone looks at my stats they're going to see I DROPPED OUT and not that I spent classes where I was asked to 'observe' or possibly help someone with an answer or some thing.
Independent learning does take some responsibility but I believe assuming the students have that capacity rather than assuming they don't does much more good than bad.
John Moonstroller 20+
Joshua Kloppers
I realize it sounds a little conformist but children truly do take advantage of this so called right
sterling brewer
Tracey Thornton
Is this what you mean by "taking advantage"?
carolyn mcauley 10+
Brock Hardwood
carolyn mcauley 10+
Brock Hardwood
"would all teachers acknowledge other ways of quantifying knowledge"
What other ways would you suggest? Faith?
"...consider alternative narritives about history,politics,socialcustoms,value placed on their work?"
Consider the "Stork theory" of birth... Not every absurd position deserves serious consideration. With that said, subjects like history and politics can be presented in objective ways. Unfortunately for some positions, facts aren't always flattering.
Rohan Batra
I have taught for a few years, and although I teach in a very different arena to a University lecture, there are some parallels which cannot be forgotten. I too have experienced the students to are just there to be disruptive, but they have a right to ask questions, and I will do my upmost to answer them during their breaks (that is, if they are still interested without the rest of the class present!). But I would say that in my experience the majority of questions are there so that students can clarify what I have said, and to expand their knowledge on something they are interested - these are questions I will always try and answer in class as they are to the benefit of all present. I would go so far as to say that if I ignored them I wouldn't be doing my job. I would also add, that in my experience at least, being flippent to students does more harm then good as they can lose respect for you. I would much rather come out on top by telling them I will talk to them about it later should they wish, than tell than ridicule them.
In answer to Brock, I never said that I was always right, and there is nothing wrong in me being wrong. But there is a huge difference between being told you are categorically wrong, and explaining the error you are making. I would say that explaining the error is actual teaching as I would be able to improve for next time, whilst being told to sit down and shut up leaves no room for free thought.
Also, Carolyn's original point above does say 'example'. Either way, the point she is making is no less valid.
Rohan Batra
Further to this, I have also taught for a number of years, albeit not in the same arena as a University. I have been asked questions about the sport I teach whilst lecturing and have also developed my own strategies for dealing with those that aren't relevant. But I would say that the majority of the time students are asking questions to further their understanding of what I have said, and I would argue that I would not be doing my job if I denied them this knowledge
I feel like I should also clarify a point I made previously about lecturers facilitating our learning. I do not believe that they must give us a simple answer or present a simple argument to answer a question. For a lecturer to point us in the right direction of an author who has written on the subject we are asking about, or tell us the name of a book, or even tell us that they will be pleased to talk to us at the end of the lecture would suffice. All I would say it to be told that you are wrong and your question is baseless is wrong.
Chosen Pen
Scott Coulton
In addition: Why is why; which is more often then not, answered with because?
Charles Kelehan
carolyn mcauley 10+
Tracey Thornton
Sean Brother
carolyn mcauley 10+
Brock Hardwood
Bottom line is this. Academia encourages free thought and questioning like no other place on earth. We have all been to school, and we all know this to be true.
Rohan Batra
Whilst I agree that students must ask questions to progress, it is a shame when those entrusted with facilitating learning do not encourage questions. I would suggest that lectures and seminars with two way exchanges provide the best learning, as it is these that promote new and inspired thinking.
Furthermore, might I suggest that we have all been to different schools, in different areas, some of us in different countries following different curriculums. We have all had different teachers and our experiences are unique to us. What is true for you may not be true for us all.
In answer to the original question, I believe that students have an absolute right to question everything. Critical thinking is vital to improving our society. University students are paying for their education, and so I believe they have an absolute right to ask anything, as it is the Universities job to facilitate them by pointing them in the right direction to find the answers to their questions.
Linda Taylor 50+
If I have those one or two people that sit in the front row that continually ask questions, (you all know who I am talking about. They lurk in the literal front row of every college class.) And I continue to address their questions as if they are valid, the rest of the class is stopping me in the hall, emailing me, going to my boss, giving evaluation feedback that I cannot control my class and that I have two favorite people in the front row that I pay attention to and don't pay any attention to any one else.
And in part the rest of the class is right.
So we quickly learn how to either leverage the questions from the front row for humor purposes or just start to ignore them. If that does not work, we will resort to whatever measures it takes to get them to be on par with the rest of the class, eg. "Good question. I would like an answer in a three page paper by next class period and you can present your findings to the class so everyone can learn." That one works like a charm.
After all, two bad evals are not gonna look as bad as 75 bad evals. It also makes them learn to ask the RIGHT QUESTION!
Brock Hardwood
Rohan said: "Carolyn's example is not necessarily far from the truth "
Carolyn's 'example' was fiction. It was not an example at all.
Brock Hardwood
I had one professor tell me later on that he loved my participation, but wanted to make sure I understood that he couldn't always call on me.. I completely understood.
sam pullan
carolyn mcauley 10+
Chosen Pen
The world is changing. I believe that Teachers and employers once had a relationship that made us students desperate to learn - to secure a future. But Students are more and more becoming their own employers. We make the new world.
I promise you Carolyn Statistics mean very little and I appreciate the courage it took to relate your truth.
Mike Colera 10+
None of this is about teachers, or class sizes, or funding or social responsibilities of school systems, public or private. Now students who do question or go on to independent thinking and are rebuffed; that is a sad disheartening situation. It makes no difference to the student about the teachers, the schools, the system, the universal cosmos. He was stifled in his quest to gain information to satisfy his need for his knowledge.
Everything else is an excuse.