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What can governments do to end poverty in their countries? Is a solution possible under capitalism?
Hello, I come from Argentina, and in my country, poverty is an issue we still can't eradicate, even though extreme poverty has been around for many decades now.
What still baffles me is the fact that although the Government gives away money to those with reduced incomes, poverty is as bad as always. Poor people can now (at least) fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependant on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life (and politicians do not care about this, since this way they can keep on "buying" their votes with cash). They don't have jobs (and some do not even bother to find one) and most still live in slums under really poor conditions. So, it's obvious this solution is only benefitial in the short run... eventually the Government is going to run out of money and we'll still have the same number of people in the streets.
Moreover, I read yesterday how India is going to start doing the same thing, but I guess that probably won't go anywhere either.
Now, what do you think is the solution to stop this vicious circle of poverty? What is your Government doing about it?
Bear in mind that Latin America has just extreme poverty levels (not as much as Africa), but still much more than the First World countries. At least in my country there is a surprisingly high number of slums (check some photos in wikipedia: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_miseria )
In my opinion, emphasis should be made on giving labour to these people outside-the-system. But for that, we need to offer public AND quality education. Yet I'm conscious that a malnourished child is not going to be able to be properly educated, is he?. So what can we do to ensure that child will have a better future? It's difficult to come up with a solution, but we're in the 21st Century now, it's about time we stopped poverty.
shawn disney 10+
Darren Duckworth
Following, with each countries population mostly concerned about their own welfare & prosperity, their leaders/politicians will always make decisions that are going to get them re-elected. This means very little is spent on things that benefit others or long term goals in general. I really can't see this cycle changing for a very long time. We can't even get our leaders to save our planet from the uncertainty of climate change.
I think the keys to a comfortable & sustainable future for us all are cheap clean renewable energy & population caps. We need to remember we are animals. Like all other life forms on earth, from simplist single cell to the most complex organism, life has always been about reproduction. We have always fought for space & resources in order to thrive and spread. Are we smart enough as a species, to overcome our instincts? Or will our population keep snowballing until something inevitably goes dramatically wrong?
As for clean, cheap energy... The answers are coming. It's frustrating we aren't putting more effort into getting the technology sooner. But once we have it, each country living in poverty should have the ability to pick THEMSELVES up.
I think that scientists globally should suspend some areas of less important research & work on this one goal.
shawn disney 10+
Matias Haro
Just wanted to share something else with you:
Here's an article published by TIME Magazine in 2005, concerning poverty. It's a really interesting piece: http://www.earth.columbia.edu/docs/endofpoverty/time031405.pdf
Basically, the most important views of the author are these:
COMMIT TO THE TASK. Oxfam and many other leaders in civil society have embraced the goal of Making Poverty History. The world as a whole needs now to embrace the goal.
ADOPT A PLAN OF ACTION. The U.N.Js Millennium Development Goals, approved by all of the worldJs governments at the start of the millennium, are the down payment on ending poverty. The MDGs set out specific targets for cutting poverty, hunger, disease and environmental degradation by 2015 and thereby laid
the foundation for eliminating extreme poverty by 2025. The rich and poor countries have solemnly agreed to work toward fulfilling the MDGs. The key is to follow through.
RAISE THE VOICE OF THE POOR. Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. did not wait for the rich and powerful to come to their rescue.They asserted their call to justice andmade their stand in the face of official arrogance and neglect. It is time for the democracies in the poor world - Brazil, India, Nigeria, Senegal, South Africa and dozens of others - to join together to issue the call to action.
REDEEM THE U.S. ROLE IN THE WORLD. The richest and most powerful country, long the leader and inspiration in democratic ideals, is barely participating in global efforts to end poverty and protect the environment, thus undermining its own security. It's time to honor the commitment to give 0.7% of our national income to these crucial goals.
...
Matias Haro
STRENGTHEN THE U.N. It is no use blaming the U.N. for the missteps of recent years. Why are U.N. agencies less operational than they should be? Not because of "U.N. bureaucracy," though that exists, but because the powerful countries fear ceding more authority. Yet U.N. specialized agencies have a core role to play in the ending of poverty. It is time to empower the likes of the U.N. Children Js Fund (UNICEF), the World Health Organization (WHO), the Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO), and many others to do the job - on the ground, country by country.
HARNESS GLOBAL SCIENCE. New technology has led directly to improved standards of living, yet science tends to follow market forces as well as to lead them. It is not surprising that the rich get richer in a continuing cycle of growth while the poorest are often left behind. A special effort should be made by the powerhouses of world science to address the unmet challenges of the poor.
PROMOTE SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT. Ending extreme poverty can relieve many of the pressures on the environment. When impoverished households are more productive on their farms, for example, they face less pressure to cut down neighboring forests in search of new farmland. Still, even as extreme poverty ends, we must not fuel prosperity with a lack of concern for industrial pollution and the unchecked burning of fossil fuels.
...
Matias Haro
What do you think about his ideas?
Mike Colera 10+
poverty is a terrible waste of human potential. But we don't seem to know what causes it; lack of education, food, mental impairment, geography, the problem has been examined from every conceivable standpoint and the answer fails us. Is there poverty on the African savannas because of the lack of rain? Then moving them to more moderate areas would end the poverty. It doesn't seem to work that way. Now what?
shawn disney 10+
Robert Haacke
Mike Colera 10+
History tells us that as small villages grew, new social dynamics came about. Instead of simple bartering for goods, it became easier for bigger villages to keep their goods and simply take the goods of their neighbors. This evolved into a feudal system, then into great empires. The empires imploded, it seems nothing is to big to fail. In the 1800s, new political philosophies evolved to address all the poverty. It seemed the wealth and power of the societies were in the hands of nobility and bankers. So the new plan was for the impoverished to seize the government, take the wealth and share it equally to all. We can look at the French, Russian, Spanish and Chinese revolutions and see that those plans not as fruitful as anticipated. These lands are still troubled with poverty. One thing noted was the poetic justice of the phrase "the king is dead, long live the king" It seems that in many cases, people simply exchanged one monarchy for another in these revolutions. But there is one example of where the overthrow of the monarchy shows
merit. The fall of the Japanese empire at the end of WW2.. Not by revolution but war. The Allied forces destroyed the
functioning feudal system and found the people unskilled to manage their country. The USA sent in a number of skilled
instructors who educated the Japanese on the matters of creating a functioning state. The results were shown when a war damaged nation rose from the ashes to be a major economic power in the world and almost no poverty. So, maybe education is the answer, but would you turnover your country to the USA for political education? Or rely on the 18th century philosophers.
Mahabalraj Singh Peshi
This is a complex question with multiple compounding causes. There is no simple solution here and what works for one country may still fail in another country.
Matias Haro
Adding it to my list of Must-Read books! :)
Mahabalraj Singh Peshi
simon love
It suits capital to have a proportion of people unemployed - full employment means that workers can start requesting higher wages.
Also, capitalism is a credo emanating from the wealthy few, and well propagated by the media (owned by the wealthy few), for their own ends.
However, Capitalism is well regulated by most governments. There are rules about minimum pay, safety, working hours, holidays etc - all of which have been vigorously fought against by the capitalist lobby, and still are.
To answer your question, capitalism per se is what is causing the poverty in yours and many, if not most, countries - including the USA Europe etc. The ameliorating effects of government intervention reduce this...to almost nothing in Scandinavia, and to a much higher degree in the UK and the USA.
Modern government seems to be controlled by opinion polls, and the poor, the real poor, are unlikely to vote, and their votes are marginal for the major parties. If the poor were a sufficiently large voting block, governments would listen.
Unless a new socioeconomic system evolves which can replace capitalism, the agents for social change are the governments of the day. Bit of a Catch 22.
But it can happen, under a moderately left wing government. So long as it does not threaten the capitalist investments in your country (too much). (also a non corrupt government - the capitalists will happily bribe).
Independent politicians, non-aligned - can be useful to keep prevailing govts to order, and a bit more.
SDatis,
Cheers, SimonL
shawn disney 10+
Alex Velazquez
Angelo Campanella
Frank Barry
"as we move towards something close to universal health care"...
Like the Chief Justice "Hopes" -- we all "hope"
that this new health care program is a start to reach a goal
of medical treatment for all, and independence from diseases.
But our Government was short sighted to allow Health Insurance
Corporations to siphon our Direct Tax Dollars, by Shunting them
past the IRS, into Health Insurance Privateer's Pockets.
Health Insurance Corporation's had no acquisition commissions (25%)
for 30 Million new annual Premiums. Nor, will the annual renewal
commissions (10%) be returned to Insured's pockets each year
in the form of reduced Premiums.
Does anyone have a calculator??? This will be a fun exercise.
There would be "More Tax Dollars" in the Treasury, to spend
on benefits to the people, without this "Shunting of Tax Dollars".
History shows that the despicable actions by most Health Insurance
Corporations for the last 80+ years has left only the Lawyers Rich,
the Courts Full, and the Insured's Gun Shy of more declined Claims.
Mr. President, and Congressmen and Congresswomen,
Why would you do such a thing to your constituents?
Mr. Chief Justice, why depend on "hope"???
You had to know better.
Frank Barry
I find it incredible that people want to believe in a system of commerce
that is so bad that it actually causes poverty instead of ending it. .
I'm not writing about Mom and Pop businesses in small communities. They work.
I am writing about Corporations grown world-wide and completely uncontrolled.
I am writing about Corporations with Limited Liability Protection from the Laws.
They operate above the laws that regulate every business owner & private citizen.
Poverty cannot be erased unless Governments can eliminate Limited Liability Laws.
That is the problem.
Jordan Miller 20+
People want to improve their lives, they want to work and grow their income for themselves and their kids. Let them work. that's how poverty is solved. Not by giving them handouts and making them dependent.
Are we seriously having this debate still?
Frank Barry
Poverty is the result of Government's ability to fool the people.
The leadership of the 2 parties are not generally known.
There is always an ex-president or two, when popular,
wears the party's mantle of leadership.
But that is not the case at all.
Ask yourself, who runs your favorite Political Party? See what I mean?
Ask 10 people on any street in America the same question. See what I mean?
The media is paid Big Bucks by each Political Party to sell Candidates taken
from a preselected pool. Political Advertisers gone berserk have a field day
with unlimited funds to spend. From whom, who really knows?
2 parties, 2 choices, and the Parties do not care which wins this time.
Their only competition is from that little soap-box in the park.
All governments are evil.
When people awaken, like the German gypsies and jews did 80 years ago,
it is too damned late. It could be now. Get used to being impoverished.
Or, straighten out your government.
But unless someone can figure out how, it is probably too late.
If poverty could be solved under Capitalism, would it not have been done by now?????
Casey Christofaris 10+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX_1B0w7Hzc
watch the whole video Lincoln comes in and kills it
Frank Barry
That was a great link to a fine youtube video. Thank you.
It did explain with comedy how bad the situation is politically.
There are no good choices of people available to run our nation.
We have the Kats and Jammer Kids running things in WashingtonDC.
Capitalism causes Poverty, then like a Janitor it has to clean up the mess.
Since the 1930's,
The population of the earth, humans and animals have experienced
- nuclear fall-out - from more than 11,000 Government tests.underground,
underwater, and in the atmospheres over heavily populated areas throughout
the world.
With a complete disregard to the safety of humans and animals.
This is our Government in action...
And not only our Government, but World-Wide.
Since the 1940's, thousands of western Washington and Nevada nucular tests
caused immediate contamination of dairy cattle and wee children's milk.
Neighboring states got it first, and then forever spread world-wide by winds.
Forever is the half-life of Radioactive Death...
Utah's elders living down-wind of the tests, first developed cancers, then died.
Horrible deaths, after much late life suffering.
Some of the test were beneficial to the eye-balls. They gave us Nuke Plants to
produce cheap Electricity, and a great pile of Radioactive Wastes. Duuuuh !!!
Another fine example of Government in Action.
NO study has been done on the effects on brain activity of world-wide populations.
But, if government Leaders are any indication, then those nuclear tests have
created a world of crazies.
Nuclear Testing continues today, World-Wide non-stop.
Inside of 150 years we will be a Burnt Up - Toasted bunch of thirsty crazies.
===
Governments cause Poverty.
They all want the best for themselves, and somebody has to pay for it.
That is you and me. Just another 6 Billion crazies.
Hahahaha. Now where did I leave my strait-jacket.???
Tarun Mahani
Krisztián Pintér 200+
that knowledge is important. without this knowledge, one easily subscribes to the notion that automation hurts people, because it takes away their jobs. this thinking effectively hinders and slows down the very best vehicle of progress.
if you really want to help poor people, you need to seek ways to increase capital accumulation. both the accumulation of local capital, and capital transfer from other, richer regions.
as of now, you don't even have to promote capital accumulation. it is enough to remove the artificial barriers that we put in place to prevent it. how easy is that? we just give up some money wasting activities, and our lives become better. but it requires understanding of these mechanisms.
Frank Barry
from small farmers to large corporations farming and ranching.
Chemical manufacturers provide artificial stimulates to both plant and animal production.
TODAY, The US produces enough food to feed the staving peoples of the world.
Yet they still starve. Yet they still starve.
Capitalism just isn't meant to be "charitable above all else".
Trickle Down Economics, doesn't trickle.
There is a catch basin at the top.
Our government sees itself as a policeman.
An enforcer.
A killer of those opposed.
But certainly not a charity to be shared.
You may disagree.
Perhaps it is not Capitalism, the system, but we the people who are at fault.
shawn disney 10+
Frank Barry
Money is a small bandage, only a temporary fix, lasting for a only short period.
Money never really reaches the impoverished.
===
We had Oil, "Energy Cheaper than Coal".
It gave the US a 40 year lead on the rest of the world.
Poverty was unaffected. Peoples starved by the millions.
===
Wealth begets Wealth. aka: Competition.
A story,,,
I started a company, new product, sold by agents nationwide.
I had 60 competitors who copied my new product within 90 days.
They copied and used my sales literature, without even
taking my own name off of the proxy statement in the contract.
I almost split a gut laughing...
The same thing happened with Oil.
That 40 year lead disappeared in 20.
Frank Barry
Few men or women wake in the morning with a desire to rush to work
because they want to continue their achievements of yesterday.
I know, I've been in both situations.
I learned to control both situations and decided that continual achievement
far surpassed fear or rolling over and going back to sleep.
As a daily test, I would leave the house with $20 in my pocket on Monday
and vow to have $1000 on Friday. My average was over $800 for the 5 days.
this was my net. After all expenses.
Separate from the test; I've had 21 businesses. "OPM" (Other People's Money)
worked best to get started.
There was a recession in the 1970's, I only vaguely knew about it. It was
when the women started taking Jobs, and the Freeways became busy at 5am.
I recall Tacos, at the 'you know where', were 20 cents each, and on Thursdays
10 for a Dollar. Harsh times that motivated both parents to find employment.
I love those Tacos.
During that recession I founded a company and had 34 women employees with
only 4 men. In 20 months I sold and retired when 39 years old . I've had at least
6 businesses since, maybe more. Too many stories, so little time.
Poverty is a state of mind. It is real. But, an individual can put himself or herself
into another state of mind that is not Poverty Stricken.
Because your situation befuddles you, is not an excuse. Look at what tools you have
and change your situation into something better. It doesn't take 24 hours.
It does require Courage, and Faith in yourself.
I will give you these 2 explanations: Use them. Use them with Honor and do well.
1. Courage: Means to be afraid to do something, but, to go ahead and do it.
2. Faith: Means a belief in myself that cannot be changed by contrary evidence.
I wanted to hit the "Submit" button but need tell you one more thing.
3. Get your butt out of bed at 4:30am.
nuff said.
Casey Christofaris 10+
W=fd
Frank Barry
At age 10, My paper-route required me to be up at 5am, 7 days a week.
2 hrs to deliver papers. School days, returned home and slept until school started.
At age 11, A shoe-shine job inside a barber-shop after school and all day on weekends.
At age 12, A job moving boulders and brush from the end of a runway at the local airfield.
I drove a 1939 Willys car with a trailer-cart behind to carry the boulders and brush to the edge
of an arroyo, where I dump them. Only a summer job.
At age 13, after school, I worked at a ceramic dish manufacturing company packaging and shipping orders. The job ended one evening when the two-wheeled dolly with 7 crates of
ceramic dishes aboard, hit a piece of ceramic while going down a ramp. The dolly stopped,
and as I watched in horror, every crate flew through the air to crash and destroy the dishes,
My employment was terminated. My pay was docked for the losses.
That was not the worst part of my day.
I had an appointment in a park that evening. 2 school boys, who later became my chums, had promised to kick my butt and I was forced by youthful honor to meet and fight them both. The smaller of the 2 was my height but outweighed me by 30 pounds. The larger boy was huge.
You can imagine my terror as I walked those 8 city blocks, alone, to the park.
I picked my first opponent, the huge taller boy, named Daryle 'Allred'.
Grabbing his right arm, I jumped into the air and hit him several times until he quit.
The other boy left quickly by himself.
2 friends who had come to cheer, or collect my body, were cheering.
Thereafter we all called Daryle, Daryle 'All Red' Black and Blue.
Not such a bad day after-all...
===
Work is hard, sweaty, and little appreciated in most cases.
We work to "get ahead".
Unless we do, we are nothing.
Sorry, I got off our topic.
Casey Christofaris 10+
http://www.ted.com/conversations/13925/is_our_math_wrong_is_it_our_a.html
Basically I believe I have come up with the flip to capitalism, even in a not pure capitalistic society that we live in today. Currently it’s more of a socialist-capitalist system where the government gives handouts to company's who for some reason people (flesh n blood) people think the company is a person. However I think this has something to do with how Lincoln freed the property the best way he could.
Capitalism creates poverty because someone has to make less so others can make more.
Inspired by Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and their kids donating their kid’s inheritance to charity I will make less so others can make more. I will not worry about trying to personally make a billion dollars to try and be number one, or king of the money pile. Instead I will automate my employee’s jobs while still paying them their salary. I think I might be able to get other people to join my cause. What do you think
Frank Barry
Poverty is the result of Capitalistic Society after about 237 years.
Poverty is the loss of Capitalistic employment, when there are no jobs.
Poverty is joining the Food Stamp crowd, and shopping where you won't meet someone you know.
Poverty is living in the Park during the day, and in the bushes at night.
Poverty is waking in the wrong bed, wanting to go home, and not having a home to go to.
Poverty is being the same today, as yesterday, and tomorrow.
===
I read yesterday the Supreme Court had found that President Obama (a claimed constitutional scholar)
was wrong in his edict concerning a matter that I have forgotten. (Dang it, I'm getting old.)
Because of said Presidential edict, some 300 prior lower court decisions may have to be reversed.
Perhaps the Supreme Court's calendar was lagging until the election was passed. You never know.
===
Things that show Capitalism at it's worst ---
Never Ending Wars on other nation's shores.
Black Budgets that pay for secret Killings on other nation's shores.
Never ending Secrets that hide Torture on other nation's shores.
Lobbies that bribe.
Politicians and their appointees that take said bribes.
Limited Liability Laws for Elected Officials and Corporate Executives.
Worldwide Commerce by Intimidation.
A Lost War on Drugs. (aka: Cartels that bribe/kill)
State Dept/CIA private contractor mercenaries.
Lost Constitutional Freedoms, (aka: the Privacy Act & Homeland Security)
X-rays at the Airports, (aka: revenge for those Never Ending Wars)
I tire of the mess.
Casey Christofaris 10+
Frank Barry
Now the job is before you.
What is your first move to be?
You can be the leader or a follower.
It is all up to you.
But please start.
Helen Hupe 30+
Frank Barry
As I write, I become almost robotic with words flowing out.
I read Dean Koontz, and enjoy his style of novels.
He often explains far better than I, why the world is so twisted.
A Capitalistic Society such as ours has too many Politicians taking
liberties with what they think are their Constitutional Authorities.
Poverty is never extinguished by government. Economic consequences
of government moves are expected to be absorbed by people.
The problem our nation faces is the absence of nation-wide Two-Way
communication available to anyone with a different view than that held
by our government.
A soap-box in the park is all that is left.
Recent loss of analog TV, and much of AM Radio, leave Cable TV alone
to convey news releases from government.
Print Newspapers fold*, under the 2 parties advertising budget pressures.
The recently deceased scion of the NYTimes may turn in his grave.
The Internet appears to be a salvation of sorts.
History --
During the Inquisition and Dark Ages, "discovery" was brutally extinguished.
It held scientific discovery back 2 hundred years.
Today --
The US government is quietly moving to curtail search engines, along with
the help of 5 or 6 European governments. An effort to control internet sharing
of Intellectual Properties, Rights and Patents. The Courts are not yet fully on board,
but it appears they soon will be.
Powers recently held by Religion and Government have passed to
World-wide Banks and Corporations. Our Military is kept busy making
non-stop Wars, and is quieted by budget controls, for now, Provided we
heed Ike's warning.
Police are a bit more than just well-armed. They are plain scary.
* I kind of liked the pun, although accidental. lol
Frank Barry
Not under Capitalism.
This is a Moral Issue not addressable by Capitalists.
Religious Organizations have a failing grade today, but they seem to be recognizing that fact.
The Mormons have the best ideas for helping the impoverished within their networks.
In the US, the Veteran's Administration's nationwide system of Hospitals and Clinics
seems to be the right answer for the medically impoverished.
The US Capitalist government has ignored the "VA's" good example,
and created instead a National Health Insurance Program that is sure to fail.
It will enrich those Capitalistic Insurance Icons only.
===
Plutarch, in writing, "On Morals," two thousand years ago, described market
bubbles in the near-ancient world and how the lending industry came to
periodically bankrupt (bank corrupt) nearly everyone in order to create
exorbitant wealth for themselves, simply as result of their own avarice and
greed.
He was writing on why no one should allow themselves to get into debt
through borrowing, but to live threadbare if need be, and to sell what your
have and live roughly, rather than see a money lender.
People have always sought to live beyond their means. And sooner or later,
many have found that they do not have sufficient funds to pay the piper.
Capitalism builds it's own poverty.
Christopher Bean
On of these days the human race is going to be devastated in some way and we have not prepared ourselves for any threat. What is our governments doing now to protect people in a crises Nothing. We are fight about stupid petty issues and when the day comes we as humans have to come-together and solve the problems that come our way. We can't even solve the most basic problems like starving Kids in our own country's... how are we to solve bigger problems when they arise.
I can see where capitalism would work and i see how it doesn't work. People getting the same start up goods like housing and food taking care of up front and not have to worry about it sounds nice but the way our economy works now Big business controls the fate of the world. Free exchange of information also sounds good but then people would all be at the same level.... OMG Donald Trump would no longer be better then me... I am just saying capitalism sounds good and all but it would take to long and to much money to switch our world around as it is now. If we can not fix the small issues now what makes us think that we can fix the world.
Frank Barry
We can fix the small issues now.
The answer today is Internet Users.
Governments Worldwide are trying to hold us back.
Does anyone recall the INQUISITION and the DARK AGES ???
Using Patent Law --
Governments and Religions working hand in hand
have impeded human progress for several hundred years.
These and other similar Laws require that new idea creators
be paid for use of said idea. aka: Intellectual Property.
The Government's TAXABLE PRICE for improving the human condition.
===
TAA TAAA !!!!
Technology has arrived in the nick of time.
Users of the Internet exchange Intellectual Properties freely.
Ideas abound....
Users require NO Identification, NO X-ray at the airport.
Users IGNORE Governments, and their whining.
Users are TRANSFORMING the world
Governments Worldwide are beginning to see a problem.
Governments Worldwide are used to being OBEYED.
Governments Worldwide are not used to being IGNORED.
Users do not have SIT INS, MARCHES, CHANTS CHEERS OR REVOLTS.
Users are UNARMED, their hands are WEAPONS FREE.
Users are from 9 to 90 years of age...
Users just want to SHARE.
And, by sharing, IMPROVE their lot in life.
And, by sharing, ELIMINATE POVERTY.
Casey Christofaris 10+
Donald Trump is not better then you
Casey Christofaris 10+
Capitalism does build its own poverty, this is true someone has to make less so others can make more. However that does not mean that capitalism can not fix poverty.
My business plan is inspired by Warren Buffet, and Bill Gates who are donating the majority of their income to charity once they are dead. As well as their children for not putting up arms; against their parents for giving away their inheritance.
I am going to create jobs and provide for my employees the people who are dependent on me for their income. See I know how to make money flow to me. Infinitely. I am going to replace my employee jobs with machines and then continue to pay them their wages since I will still be making money from the work they once did. Then the monies will be in my people hands, to help others that are less fortunate then us. For one can not exist without the other.
In capitalism I am free ....yes free to do with my money what I want because it is my money. My plan is to give it back. This is my plan moving forward
P.S. Just in case you were wondering I was semi-retired at 28
Frank Barry
I hope that in 10 or 20 years from now, you can look back and know
you were successful. Unfortunately your generosity just masks poverty.
It is not your fault. It is the system's fault.
Capitalism; A system of commerce, world-wide with no known solution.
In Capitalism, (a capitalistic society such as is the US) business owners are also
free to do what they want with the business's profits. But when owners take their
fair share of earnings, and their workers also desire their own fair profit sharing.
Prices to consumers rise to satisfy both owners and workers. A never ending rise.
This is inflation.
This is one result of Capitalism.
When Retirees living on Fixed Incomes watch Food prices rise past the point
of affordability, they either eat less or eat lesser quality Foods.
Ever notice that elderly people are thinner than their younger counterparts?
This is only one type of poverty. Multiplied by 100 Million, it gets scary.
===
History --
Back in the day, a telephone call was 5 cents from a payphone booth.
The last vestige was in New Orleans on Canal Street in the 1970's.
Senator Huey Long (later assassinated) was partly responsible for making
the Telephone company keep it's prices down. How much are those same
telephone calls today?
Casey Christofaris 10+
Jeff Fiske
I am not longer poor. I am no longer homeless. I have traveled around many parts of North and South America and I have seen the extreme examples of poverty in El Salvador, Mexico and Peru. I was struck by the fact that in my worst moments of poverty I had something available to me that I did not see in these people in these other countries. I had hope for a better tomorrow. When hope fades it no longer matters what economic system drives your society.
Frank Barry
If what you write is correct, and I know you believe it so. Why is there Poverty in
Capitalistic societies? Poverty, as you have seen, exists. It exists here in the US.
TODAY, in the US we find our Government(s) disconnected from the people they serve.
I call that disconnect "corruption". It festers in even the smallest of towns.
It retards growth and promotes poverty.
When taxation is over 50% (including all it's guises), new business start-ups collapse.
And that is not "government staying out of the way".
80% of all new business start-ups in the US, fail in the first year, another 70% of
first year survivors cannot make it through their second year.
Were a "basic capitalistic" government to provide guidance to business start-ups,
with proper education, limited taxation, and strategic lending along the way. Then
perhaps business start-ups would have a better record. And poverty would decrease.
Alas, this is not what happens in America.
The SBA loan programs liken to College's school loan programs, are instead "barbed hooks" snaring both the unwary start-up businesses, and inexperienced school students with masses
of government paperwork with threats of repayment penalties. and unnecessary taxation.
Jeff Fiske
If Capitalism is the cause of poverty then why does poverty exist under other economic systems as well. What you described in your posts is a bastardization of capitalism. The capitalist system itself did not create the problem.When government officials and certain business executives decided to interfere with the system for personal gain they chipped away at the very foundation of the greatest engine for growth and prosperity that the world has ever known. But you cannot blame that on Capitalism. That would be akin to blaming poorly prepared meal on the food rather than the cook.
Businesses succeed and fail all of the time for many reasons. It is just as likely to be the fault of the business operator as it is anything else. Just because 80% fail in the first year does not mean that the system is flawed. Perhaps it was a bad idea to begin with. The problem is not that the government doesn't provide proper guidance. Government should have as little involvement as possible.
I think we have some points upon which we agree in regards to some of the things that have gone awry in our society. However I believe that your premise, assigning blame for poverty to capitalism, is flawed.
I am not a terribly religious man but I recall a certain iconic feature in Christianity saying something to the effect that "the poor will be with you always". That was over 2,000 years ago and capitalism had not even been invented.
randy johnson
And, by the way, there are many people who barter here. To pay for better education, people will pay with chickens or rice or labor. (Yes we do make them pay because it then becomes valuable to them even though I am happy to work for free.)
randy johnson
I agree with Gareth and Mandela that education is the weapon of choice. It must be a quality education that promotes respect and responsibility. As a participant in the education system in this "developing" country, I not only see that there is no educating going on, but that most everything in this "education" system is corruption. (I could document it but it does no good.)
Mike said it correctly,
" In every country there is poverty. Governments can not cure poverty. If they could, it would have been done long ago. They can cause poverty, they can maintain people in a level of poverty as to provide political support as you have noted.
"People are impoverished because they do not know to create wealth or they are prevented by outside forces. Capitalism is the easiest way for an individual to create wealth. He does this by taking his stuff transforming it to something that others want and exchanging it for what he needs. He gains wealth through his efforts. It's really simple. The problem is that most people in poverty have lost the desire to escape, they live in despair and I know of no answer to that problem."
I can see that the government wants the people in ignorance so that it can continue taking money that is intended to make the peoples lives better. The natives in the villages who use capitalism are actually making a better life for themselves and others.
I also see the money taken from infrastructure which will help increase capitalism also.
Maaher Sayeed 10+
Frank Barry
Gosh, wait, I will join you as soon as I find my bow and arrows...
That Sheriff John is a real stinker, isn't he....?
Isabelle Morgan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbACCGf6q-c
Mike Colera 10+
We could go back to bartering. But...
If you want to call it prostitution, OK. Here's one. Steve Jobs. Had an idea, got some investors, built a computer, over the years built a lot of computers, hired 70,000 employees, returned a profit for his investors.
What do you have against prostitutes, that's judgmental.
Casey Christofaris 10+
Frank Barry
you wrote and I include a part here -- "Steve Jobs. Had an idea, got some investors,
built a computer, over the years built a lot of computers, hired 70,000 employees,
returned a profit for his investors."
A wonderful success story, but not told fully... Although you are not to blame.
The coasts of Africa are the dumping places for used computers and their sub-products.
From IBM to Apple and everything in between, is garbage to the impoverished Africans.
It shows that Capitalism is not concerned with charity.
Casey Christofaris 10+
As of now this is the only way I can see to solve poverty under our current system. And this is my plan moving forward
Mike Colera 10+
idea of capitalism but no matter. It could work. You might have a problem automating the job of sexing chickens,
but Tyson Foods would pay big for that one.
Casey Christofaris 10+
Also yes most jobs can get replaced by machines, however some jobs wont and shouldn't be replace. I personally think that everybody should have to at least once in their life wait tables and bartend.
Mike Colera 10+
When you look at small tribes living in the amazon jungles, you don't see a lot of poverty. Not a lot of great wealth either.
There seems to be a balance. When we look at great cities, we see great poverty. When we see one group of people drive another group away from their wealth (Darfur), we see poverty. So is a product of great societies, great poverty? Is this the cause for the effect?
The taking of other people's properties can be addressed. Small takings is a violation in most Great Societies. Big takings like Darfur need to be addressed, but I think can be resolved. That leaves Great societies, great poverty.
So, we are left with at least three solutions.
1. It is what it is, so live with it.
2. Take away wealth from those that have it and give it to those that don't.
3. Don't know yet, but one and two are not acceptable.
Casey Christofaris 10+
Mike Colera 10+
There is an endless supply of capital, it is in everyone of us. Some have used theirs well and have converted their capital into wealth. Others have not and they live in poverty. Now there are people in poverty who are sick, or for some reason can not expend their capital. There are others that don't know how to, don't want to, are afraid to, every reason. But it is not because others have used their capital wisely.
.
Casey Christofaris 10+
Truth is we just need to realize that money is fake and that ultimately we don't need money
Matias Haro
Money was invented for a reason. It was the only way for people to satisfy people's different needs. Barter had so many faults. If you wanted to exchange your cow for, say, a horse, you were obliged to find a given person who had horses AND was willing to exchange it for a cow. Furthermore, what if this person was not at all against this possible exchange, but thought his horse had more value than my cow. What could we do then? I can't give him 1/2 a cow, can I? Money solves all these problems. That's why we need it. If not, getting food on a daily basis would be impossible.
Money is not evil per say. I think it has just gotten way out of our hands. We weren't able to distribute it properly from the start, and nowadays you can make money just doing nothing (e.g. Derivatives). I wish I had the answer, but I don't. Maybe we've got ourselves into a big hole, but going back is not a viable choice now.
Casey Christofaris 10+
We don't need to travel to the past, because if history has taught us anything thing it is that it repeats itself. This is because we are in circle discovers. But those can end we no longer need to discover circles(use broadly) thing cause/effect, ying/yang, equal but opposite reaction. And the likes
Money is just a form of energy exchange. My question to you how w-holistic of answer do you want that we can and could get rid of currency
Ronald Vallecer
Gareth Armstrong
My opinion, education is the answer...and their are strong cases throughout history and the world that support this.
Michael Froemmcke