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Robert Winner


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Debt Ceiling Crisis

For the last few months I have bee successfully guided away from the elephant in the room and very concerned with the fisical cliff ... which is important granted.

The part of the package that the Administration is holding dear to is .... an administrative right to total control of the debit ceiling with no Congressional input or guidance.

At issue is that the government is spending more than is coming in ... Repbs want to reduce the government and balance the budget .... Demos want to have unrestricted spending and lower taxes thus less coming and more going out.

I think this is the key issue in fisical cliff talks and has not been addressed to the public in the manner it deserves.

What do you think?


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    Gail . 50+

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    Dec 31 2012: Pat, you misrepresent reality

    The House of Representatives has EXCLUSIVE right to introduce spending bills. If the senate agrees with the house's bill, it goes to the president for signature. If the president vetoes, it returns to congress who can override the veto. You are giving the president too much power.

    As I understand it, Reps want to reduce spending except military, that it wants to enhance. Dems want to reduce military as well, but it also wants some spending bills included. They do not want unrestricted spending. Reps want tax policies that favor the wealthy who got us into this mess. Dems want to even that out.

    I also favor not raising the debt limit, but the only way to do that is to drastically reduce military spending which will throw us into another down-turn (recession or depression). Smaller government? Same thing.

    Rather than blame the president for things that are not in his purview, I would like to hear how you suggest that we fix this mess without bringing down the whole house.

    If you are willing to let the house collapse, then I understand what you are saying, but you have never suggested this before, so more information would be appreciated.
    • Dec 31 2012: Exactly: congress will always have a major say on the debt ceiling, even if it is indirectly.

      P.S. it is indeed Robert and not Pat that started this thread.
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      Dec 31 2012: Are you talking to me?
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        Dec 31 2012: Please do accept my apologies. The comment is to Robert. :-(
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      Dec 31 2012: Just out of curiosity TL.

      What would happen if the house fell?
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        Jan 1 2013: We would be forced to come together into communities and re-establish our relationships with others and with the land. A lot of people would be very terrified. Perhaps they would learn how to walk through their fears and own the power. Then a much finer would would begin to establish itself - without a monetary system
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          Jan 2 2013: Happy New Year TL.

          It wouldn't come to a total collapse would it? There must be some provisions in place for your house of representatives to rely on? This is mute since yesterday but it was a foregone conclusion that it would ride over the time.
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        Jan 2 2013: Happy New Year to you too, Ken.

        If the economy collapses (money has no value), then the social glue that holds us together (money) is no longer there. Do you think that the government that forced this state of affairs on us necessarily (sold us out for money and power) would be able to stay in power when so many lives were destroyed in the name of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

        I don't. There is a way to live without money (including barter). Those who prefer the inequality and divisiveness that money was INTENDED to instill in a society don't want people to know that.

        the fiscal cliff was a misnomer. More like a fiscal slide. But we probably have a few more years left before it all comes tumbling down. We have yet to see the period of spiraling inflation.

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