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Morgan Barnes

Law Enforcement Officer, government agency

This conversation is closed.

Has the time come for the U.S Second Amendment to be repealed or amended?

After yesterdays tragic shooting in Newtown CT and the worst year ever for firearm related deaths and mass killings , has the time for the US Government to tell the Gun Lobby it is over and repeal or amend "the right of the people to bear arms".

Should it be repealed on the grounds that when originally written it was for a smaller population to defend the "State" and meant for Muskets and flintlocks not semi automatics and military hardware, which makes it no longer viable on account of relevance to this day and age.

That Militia should be held to Law Enforcement agencies, Military and government controlled Para military agencies, with a show need, clause for people such as certain Primary producers etc.

Is it time to tell the NRA and the Gun Lobby there will be no more "collateral" damage no matter how much you donate to the "Party"

What would be the best way for the government to enforce such a law???

And please no Guns do not kill people, people kill people debates it was people who invented firearms in the first place.

The time has come to realise it is mainly our children who pay the ultimate price for lack of diligence in monitoring a problem that has been there for far too many years.


Closing Statement from Morgan Barnes

Firstly I would like to say I did not flag or delete anyone's comments I am perfectly capable of speaking for myelf however I did get frustrated and had some comments deleted myself.
As I write this President Obama has signed 23 executive orders inline with Colleen's post from yesterday from New York.

I have to admit I am a little disappointed that we could not of just discussed the issue in a more calm, critical and logical manner and be able to offer solutions as well as recognised the underling causes, as this is a forum for open ideas and thinking, Then again we are dealing with human nature.
To those of you from the International community thank you for your imput and allowing people to see the different views helds in different parts of the world on this subject.
I will not deny that the Constitution and The Bill Of Rights are the backbone of America, but remember it was written by man not given by god and man can take it away or amend it, if he really wants too.
I am a believer that in the 21st Century we should use it to advance humankind to address the problems of the world and improve it for all. It won't be easy but we have to start somewhere or we risk implementing our own destruction.
I hope that this be a positive start and and an even more positive step in which the US can show the way.
Once again I thank you all for your contributions

"In a progressive country change in constant : change is inevitable "Benjamen Disraeli

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  • Jan 15 2013: Lee-Anna: Please allow me to provide some unemotional information. There is a considerable amount of fear of the concept of armed citizens by people unfamiliar with firearms, which is understandable. The advent of concealed carry permits (CCW) available in most US states helps with that; if done properly, neither criminals nor honest citizens will realize whether there is someone present who is armed. In the US, there are millions of CCW permit holders in most states. Why do people carry concealed firearms? There are a lot of answers, but perhaps it can be encapsulated in the the saying, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." I am one of a few I know who carry whenever it is legal. Why do I carry? Because my worst fear is being unable to defend my loved ones when I have the ability to do something about it. I have CCW permits fot 3 states, which with recprocal agreements, makes me legal in about 33 states. For me I cannot carry at work(due to corprate rules), in church, in schools, nor is it legal to consume alcohol in a restaurant while carrying. Like the vast majority of CCW holders, I have never drawn a pistol, although on two occasions in the past 20 years I reached inside my coat and put my hand on it, once at a bank ATM machine where two suspicious characters were hanging around the ATM I was using, and once while taking a walk late at night when a car full of young men stopped and backed up and I went behind a tree and waited. All firearms are locked in safes when not in use. All of my children (2 daughters 1 son) know how to handle firearms safely and can shoot rifles and pistols, and I help teach about 20 boys a year in Scouts to safely handle firearms and shoot accurately. My wife appreciates the additional comfort of knowing we are far safer from crime than most families, although she is uncomfortable with handling firearms. There are, literally, millions of US citizens like me.
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      Jan 15 2013: West Lake,
      There is considerable fear of the concept of armed citizens by those of us who are familiar with firearms as well. I have no problem whatsoever with people who are responsible with a weapon. A frightened person with a gun, however, is a frightened person with a gun. Those who have spoken on this thread in favor of all citizens being allowed to hoard all kinds of guns in the event of the US government turning on the people, is a fear based concept, so I am more frightened of those folks than I am of all the people I know who own and use guns responsibly.

      You say..."Please allow me to provide some unemotional information", and you mention your "worst fear". Do you honestly think that is not emotion?

      I respect your ability to own and use a firearm safely, just as I resapect all those who do the same. I am in favor of removing assault weapons from our communities, and many of my friends and family who own and use guns responsibly share this perspective.
    • Jan 15 2013: Colleen is right! Fear is fear. And most of us do understand, but we also understand that it is the "Accessibility" of so many Rapid Fire weapons that can fire a round over several hundred yards that can open up a persons chest with one strike, is the real issue. You can have Guards and armed teachers all day long and a person with access to one of these weapons can simply wait for school to let out at the end of the day, or drive by the playground at lunch time and still kill as many as were murdered at Sandy Hook. Put a scope on that same gun and any exterior armed guards can be picked off one-by-one. Very harsh penalties for either manufacturing or owning any kind of weapon that can do this kind of harm will make a difference. There is no other answer. Most mass murderers with guns are not seasoned criminals. No one was thinking they were threats before they killed people. So how could any law except a ban really do anything at all?? While I do, like Colleen have a lot of passion when it comes to this subject, it is entirely based on Common Sense.
      • Jan 15 2013: If you knew anything about guns, you would know that most sniper rifles are single shot bolt action. That being the case, this getting rid of multi cartridge guns will do nothing. and again banning drugs have only made them more accessible, not less. Did we learn nothing from prohibition?
        • Jan 15 2013: Again, mis-stateting what I said. I said if you put a scope on that "same" weapon, a killer could pick off people from a-far. You decided to change the weapon to make your point. I know what a Sniper Rifle, specifically is. But multi-fire weapons can be used for short to medium range "sniping' too...! Do you disagree? Outside of getting into a car and driving loaded up on some drugs, me taking something does not have the intent behind it to kill other folks. So your comparison is wrong...flat out. If you were to be truthful in your argument, you would say something that would not support your argument at all. What do you do to break a Drug Addict? You keep them away from Drugs, let them go through the awfulness of "Cold Turkey" get them help to keep them off! You do not give them more drugs. But wait!!!! There is more!!! The number of people using drugs like Heroine, PCP and Crack has dropped significantly!! Those drugs are illegal and much has been done to educate the children on its perils. So you mut be talking about the numbers of people who have become addicted and have died by the drugs that are the most ACCESSIBLE....Prescription Drugs!!!...Right!! You knew that more died from those than the drugs you think are more ACCESSIBLE, right? Its not the street walkers and the low-life's, but the average working man or woman who are hooked on prescription drugs more than any other drug! Again, not to be smug at all, but these are the talking points I have heard so much, with the hopes that ignorance to the truth is present. Educating our young and removing these threats is the Answer! It will take a Goliath of an effort, but our children are worth it. I have heard in as many months 2 children killed getting educations at a firing range. I threw up hearing about one. Its all about the RISK FACTOR Tim. If the those Children were not even in the vicinity of those Firearms they would be alive today. Its all about common sense.
      • Jan 15 2013: I am misleading? If someone had a m14 they might put a scope on it, to scope a ar15 would be a joke unless it was short range, why do you think the military doesn't do it? The only "scopes" they use on anything isn't an ar15 or it isn't really a long range scope but rather an accusition scope, which isn't the same. Why are my comparisons wrong and yours right? Where are your facts to back up your presumptious statements? Apparently you are somewhere else since heroin is on the upswing, and meth is everywhere. No, the war on drugs is just as bad as prohibition and for the same reason, too many cops and politicians on the take. And just where did you hear of two children killed at firing ranges, and how were they killed? Youer sensationalizing of all things bad about guns cannot be trusted.
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      Jan 15 2013: @West you said you have concealed carry to protect your family yet you have a licence for 3 states? and reciprocal for 33 must be a big family.

      That to me no offence smacks of fear
      • Jan 15 2013: Do you carry? Oh thats right your a cop, does that make you not human? are you still capable of mistakes? No offense meant, but, cops carry to protect themselves, not to protect others. If you wish to argue that point, where were the cops when these kids were getting killed? Cops by nature are after the fact, not there when you need them, and I am not saying that to infuriate you, it's just the way it is. By the way, I am a jeweler, and several of my friends have been attacked this year, one shot in his own home, had he been carrying, maybe he wouldn't have, another was shot at, but the would bes left when he pulled his own. Tell me how taking away guns from law abiding people is going to help?
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          Jan 16 2013: You are so far away from the truth timothy it is scary, and in this job sometime it is better not be human if you see what we see. T
          here has to be a detachment or as some have done you take your service pistol and blow the back of your head off or sink into the bottom of bottle.

          Oh and Tim no cop worth their mettle ever wants to have to pull a pistol or have to shoot someone unfortunately some leave us with no choice and there is a trend that is becoming even more scary and another situation no Law enforcement Officer ever wants to be put in it called Suicide by Cop.

          Be glad it is not you dealing with it.

          If you regulate what is available it will cut the incidents down thats fact, it wont be easy, and theres a lot of guns out there both in legal and illegal hands. But if you make it harder to obtain it makes it safer for everyone. You, your business, your family and even us.

          But Tim America is not Disneyland, Mum Apple Pie and white picket fences are no longer as obtainable as they use to be.

          Killing each other is not the answer and truthfully a change has to made or there will be no one left.
          We have to start somewhere so lets start where there can be a visable difference.

          You see you ,like Marrianne ,can quote all the statistics you like but the average Joe Blow doesn't care about that. Those things are for academics, and Government types, they are never correct, and as soon as they are corrolated they are out of date and they are missing valuable pieces of information plus it is easy for people to pick what they want to push an agenda which has been well demonstrated in this debate.

          Joe Blow watches TV and it is what he sees infront of him that he reacts to not a load of numbers on a sheet of paper. You mentioned you were in the military do you remember this

          "The Shot that kills you is the shot you never hear"


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      Jan 15 2013: Hi West Lake,
      It sounds like you are a responsible adult so I have no problem with you having a gun, BUT, the fact that your children also know how to use these weapons makes me exceptionally nervous. I am a Psychologist and I can tell you that children may appear responsible, however they are also prone to impulsiveness, especially emotional impulsiveness, which is why we see so many suicides by young people because they get so distressed at a breakup or being bullied that they will take a gun and shoot themselves in the head, even though they have no background of psyc problems (I work in the field of suicide prevention and postvention, so beleive me, even the most level headed child can do the most appaling act). When we look at the people that have perpetrated these mass killings, more often than not they are young people, who can become highly emotional and impulsive. I am sure your kids are great. But how do we know that the mother of the Newtown massacre didn't feel the same about her son? This is just my view and you are welcome to disagree, but I strongly beleive children should be kept well away from guns until they are legal adults.
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        Jan 15 2013: Does legal adult mean responsible adult? What age do people become mature enough to handle a weapon?
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          Jan 15 2013: Hi Gary,
          I use the term legal adult as the age in which by law, people are classed as adults, which in most countries is 18, and we can no longer prevent them from making their own decisions on things like buying weapons, having sex, getting married etc, because it is their right under this very constition we are debating. Ultimately there is no test for 'responsible adult' and there are some people in this world who will never be responsible or mature enough to handle a weapon. Unfortunately they are the ones most likely to take lives, which is why we should at least try and determine someone's maturity and responsibility, and emotional stability. Otherwise, chaos.

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