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Morgan Barnes

Law Enforcement Officer, government agency

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Has the time come for the U.S Second Amendment to be repealed or amended?

After yesterdays tragic shooting in Newtown CT and the worst year ever for firearm related deaths and mass killings , has the time for the US Government to tell the Gun Lobby it is over and repeal or amend "the right of the people to bear arms".

Should it be repealed on the grounds that when originally written it was for a smaller population to defend the "State" and meant for Muskets and flintlocks not semi automatics and military hardware, which makes it no longer viable on account of relevance to this day and age.

That Militia should be held to Law Enforcement agencies, Military and government controlled Para military agencies, with a show need, clause for people such as certain Primary producers etc.

Is it time to tell the NRA and the Gun Lobby there will be no more "collateral" damage no matter how much you donate to the "Party"

What would be the best way for the government to enforce such a law???

And please no Guns do not kill people, people kill people debates it was people who invented firearms in the first place.

The time has come to realise it is mainly our children who pay the ultimate price for lack of diligence in monitoring a problem that has been there for far too many years.

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Closing Statement from Morgan Barnes

Firstly I would like to say I did not flag or delete anyone's comments I am perfectly capable of speaking for myelf however I did get frustrated and had some comments deleted myself.
As I write this President Obama has signed 23 executive orders inline with Colleen's post from yesterday from New York.

I have to admit I am a little disappointed that we could not of just discussed the issue in a more calm, critical and logical manner and be able to offer solutions as well as recognised the underling causes, as this is a forum for open ideas and thinking, Then again we are dealing with human nature.
To those of you from the International community thank you for your imput and allowing people to see the different views helds in different parts of the world on this subject.
I will not deny that the Constitution and The Bill Of Rights are the backbone of America, but remember it was written by man not given by god and man can take it away or amend it, if he really wants too.
I am a believer that in the 21st Century we should use it to advance humankind to address the problems of the world and improve it for all. It won't be easy but we have to start somewhere or we risk implementing our own destruction.
I hope that this be a positive start and and an even more positive step in which the US can show the way.
Once again I thank you all for your contributions

"In a progressive country change in constant : change is inevitable "Benjamen Disraeli

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    Dec 29 2012: You people think it is a joke to need guns for self defense. Am I right to assume these commenters live in safe areas? ...I do not think a hunting rifle is the right gun for a home invasion and you cannot rely on the police.

    ... I own a single shot 12 gauge, thats it. Thats my choice. It is not mine or any of your place to make that choice for other people.
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      Dec 29 2012: Obamas kids go to a school that is protected by armed guards.

      Michael Moore's armed guards were jacked at the airport.

      Obama was also asked about his daughters growing up:

      On his show, David Letterman remarked on how grown-up Obama’s daughters, Sasha and Malia, looked at the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte this month.

      “Does that kill you?” Letterman asked.

      “It worries me, but they’re surrounded by men with guns,” Obama replied.

      It is your choice, you are right, your right is not to be diminished by these people.
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      Dec 29 2012: Hi Gary

      I live in a part of south London where there is a lot of crime, but never to the extend where I would feel the need to own a gun. I'm not blind to the fact that if I lived in your area I would feel different. But I would also start asking the question of why my society was so unsafe, when clearly there are other countries in the world that do not have these problems.
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        Dec 29 2012: Now you are hitting the point Faisel.

        Add to that list of questions, why, since the conclusions of the studies showed that school security was one solution, why money wasn't made avaialble to enhance school security everywhere in the US?

        American's have a lot of very dark realities about themselves that they need to face and they shouldn't be allowed to use gun ownership as a scapegoat.
        One look at the multi-billion dollar cultural cesspool that is produced by Hollywood answers about 90% of the questions. If the adage is true "you are what you eat", how much more so is it true that what you consume in the form of ideas also changes you. Hollywood panders to the most prurient interests and intrigues of men, and the American public can't get enough of it. They allow their children to watch serial horror films.

        One of the most popular trends now among young people is Criminal Forensic Science. I guess we are aiming for a generation of ghouls. The garbage that is aimed directly at the inner city black community is enough to throw your television in the street.

        I have boycotted television for over 30 years and recommend it to any mother raising children.

        Mentally ill have a 4 times higher rate of being killed by law enforcement than your average perp.

        And the list goes on. They should not be allowed to cry more crocodile tears over these poor children, point their fingers at guns and then go back to their own dereliction and continue to ignore the more substantive problems.
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        Dec 30 2012: Dearest Mette,

        ... Why should we turn in our guns and trust certain police(?) with the exclusive right to bear arms? If someone were to break into your house, armed, are you comfortable with hoping you will not be killed? When do these certain police come? After you are raped or robbed, and possibly killed? If you are willing to take that chance, that is fine and it is your decision. Why is it not ok for others to make that decision for themselves? Why is that your decision too?

        The anti gun crowd refuses to dig deeper into the issues behind these tragedies, they ignore the facts of gun ownership and how many people are responsible, they are self centered and only interested in satisfying their own uninformed and ignorant ideas without considering the huge number of capable gun owners and their wants.

        Also, this IS the United States we are not Canada, Australia, Africa We Are The United States. Our culture and clash of cultures is unique to us. Thank you.
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          Dec 30 2012: Gary,
          You don't help your cause at all by calling those who disagree with you "the anti gun crowd", "self centered", "uninformed" and "ignorant.".

          I have not observed any "anti gun" people in this discussion at all, nor have I observed any self centered, uninformed or ignorant people in this discussion. If you want people to consider your concerns, it might be helpful to drop the name calling.
    • Dec 29 2012: Self defense is a very subjective consideration for owning a firearm. What one person justifiably believes is necessary, another may feel it is not. Neither is wrong really.

      It's a judgement call based on an individuals life experience.

      I live in Toronto, about 1000 yards from the scene of a gang shootout at a neighborhood BBQ this past summer where 22 people were shot, 2 fatally. I also spent a good part of my adolescence in some of the worst neighborhoods in this city. Before that we lived in Belfast during the 'troubles'.

      Maybe our family has a different perspective on things or we're used to it. I don't know what the reason is but neither myself or any member of my family has had a gun and to be honest I don't think it's ever been discussed.

      My Brother in Law on the other hand has several guns. He grew up in a quiet bedroom community in Suburbia and I don't believe he's ever lived where crime was a concern. Today they live in a well to do community where petty vandalism is major news. He has 3 daughters though and says he worries about protecting them. That's fair enough by me if that's what he thinks he needs.

      Here's where his argument get's dodgy though. One of his guns is a handgun that he uses at a firing range for target shooting. Handguns here are very restricted so his is a rare commodity. What bothers me with his argument is that he brings it out from time to time in the presence of house guests. Many of those are teenage boys at the local high school.

      So the question is - If he was so intent on protecting his girls, why then does every kid at that high school and many more further afield now know that he has a handgun + several rifles at his house. Hasn't he made his house a target for thieves and increased the risk of harm to his family?

      I would have to question whether there are baser instincts driving his his need to have so many weapons at home.
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      Dec 29 2012: Gary,
      I don't think it is a joke to have a gun for self defense. I know people who keep a gun for that reason.....small pistals.....not assault weapons that shoot 12,000 -15,000 RPM. Having a gun for protection is a choice many people make.

      I live in an area where hunting is very popular, and many people feed their families with the game they hunt and shoot. I have several brothers and lots of friends who are hunters. Although I could never shoot an animal, I do eat the venison and rabbit that is generously given to me. I also am familier with guns because I used to shoot skeet for sport.

      I believe that as a society it IS our choice to decide what kinds of guns are circulating. I do not believe it is reasonable for average citizens to own assault weapons for which the ONLY use is killing people. They are not good for hunting game....nobody wants meat filled with ammo. They are not necessarily good for defending our homes.....overkill....so the speak.....unless you're expecting an army to invade your home, as has been foolishly and fearfully mentioned on this comment thread.

      You are absolutely right Gary....hunting rifles are not generally used for home invasions, and very few intentional killings are done with sport rifles.

      The ONLY use for assault weapons is killing people, and for that reason, I am against them being available in the general population.
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        Dec 30 2012: Colleen,

        Fully automatic guns have been banned since 1934. No gun fires 12,000 rounds per minute. The mini gun holds the record at 6,000 rpm and you can't just hold it in your hand, it has multiple barrels.

        ... By "our choice" you mean you and people who agree with you.

        ... How do you know an assault weapon is overkill for protection?

        ... the only use for assault weapons is not killing. Its used for protection too, different than just killing. Also for sport. I'd like to add that if people knew you were armed with such a weapon, it can be used as a deterrent, you probably will not have to use it.

        ... As i stated before I do not carry a gun and the only gun I own is single shot. That is my choice though. I respect the choice of others and ask people on this forum to do the same. No one on this forum has any suggestions except ban assault weapons or guns completely and psychiatric evaluations(?). Weak. Someone please make a good argument as to how taking away assault weapons will save lives and why this is our only option.


        ... I have to reply to your question for me below, here: As far as assault weapons are concerned I can understand why people would want them, same as I understand why people do not want them. There are extremists on both sides of the argument. I am for choice, yours, mine and everyone's. I do not feel there is a dire need to ban assault weapons and take that choice away from people on the pro side of this debate.

        ... ... I know if Adam Lanza didn't have access to that gun he "may not" have killed as many people. There was more to that story than gun nut shoots up school. It was a series of bad decisions.
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          Dec 30 2012: Gary,
          Regarding RPM and automatic guns:
          You might want to do some research on that my friend. The information you provide is not accurate.

          Regarding: "Our choice"
          My statement is clear..."I believe that as a society it IS our choice to decide what kinds of guns are circulating". Our choice as a society. And that, of course, was in response to your statement..."It is not mine or any of your place to make that choice for other people." Society has the right to make the rules, just as they did when our society was formed. If you read the constitution, you may discover that it allows for "regulation" of guns, which I believe is how and why the previous ban on assault guns was adopted without repealing or amending anything.

          I totally respect your choice and the choice of others Gary, and my preference is that assault guns be banned again from use in the general population in the USA, because the only use for assault weapons, is for killing people.

          This discussion topic is : "Has the time come for the U.S Second Amendment to be repealed or amended?" That is the focus of this discussion.

          Of course underlying issues need to be addressed as well, and "psychiatric evaluations" are not the topic of this particular discussion.

          I agree with you Gary...there are extremists on both sides, and the best possible end result is to find a balance. I also agree that there were many factors and decisions which led to the recent shooting. One very important factor with this shooting, and shootings of many innocent people in the past, is the availability of guns.

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