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Sam Largaespada
Minneapolis, MN
United States

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I believe life proves gods existence.

The natural way of the universe is entropy. However life as we know it is only getting more and more complex and ordered. This would seem to go against the notion of entropy. I like to think that god has something to do with instilling a sense of order in a chaotic universe.

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Matthieu Miossec 100+
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TED Translator Associate

Mar 28 2011: The universe is undergoing entropy. Locally, entropy can increase as it decreases somewhere else. the Earth isn't a closed system so it's no exception. There's this thing powering all of life, it's called....The Sun! Why would the second law of thermodynamics be a law of nature if it contradicted observation on so many levels? Your weird take on entropy would mean that stars couldn't form, galaxies couldn't clump together, planets couldn't form and living cells couldn't grow, nevermind the complexity of life. No, the reason it's a law is that it works, unequivocally works and all you've proven here is that you don't understand entropy. Unlike you I understand science and I don't believe in God. You're going to have to try harder.
- Younus Ali
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  Mar 28 2011: Science is the name of research nothing more. Science is not beyond nature's behaviour i.e. fully awared of. There are many other phenomenons that can not still be proven by science. God is the supreme power, where all of us have to be returned i.e. after life. We are living in 3D world right now and when we die, our spirits leave this body and goes to 4D. Where we are destined to live eternally and have to be answerable to God for all our good or bad deeds. Earth is the limited time framed place just to observe the good and bad, to attain goodness in most we can and eliminating the bad by restricting ourselves.
  
  I hope you do have a belief in good and evil?
  
  Cheers
  - Matthieu Miossec 100+
    
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    Mar 28 2011: All of what you just said has no factual basis whatsoever, so I'm going to go ahead and ignore it.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 29 2011: facts are to be found, not known :)
  - Vasil Rangelov 50+
    
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    Mar 29 2011: Because nothing would work out if we ignore each other, I'm going to go ahead and explain why what you say doesn't have any factual basis:
    
    1) "Science is the name of research nothing more."
    
    From Wikipedia on Science
    "Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world."
    Keyword is "testable". If something is not testable, it's not science, but mere speculation.
    
    And on Research
    "Research can be defined as the search for knowledge, or as any systematic investigation, with an open mind, to establish novel facts, usually using a scientific method."
    Keyword is "search". (Re)search is what scientists do before coming up with testable explanations.
    
    2) "Science is not beyond nature's behaviour i.e. fully awared of. There are many other phenomenons that can not still be proven by science."
    Yet.
    If we allowed any unprovable concept to keep us hostage, humanity would've never found out that the earth is round, among many other things.
    
    3) "We are living in 3D world right now and when we die, our spirits leave this body and goes to 4D."
    Actually, we EXIST in a 3D world and LIVE in a 4D world, where the 4th dimension is time.
    Compare a picture of a rectangle with that of a cube with the same sized side, looked directly at one side. The 3rd dimension is still there, but you don't perceive it because you're looking at this one side. In the same way, time is still in the world, though we can't visually perceive it, but just experience it.
    I'm willing to accept the possibility of there being additional dimensions to our universe, but they'll be in the same universe, not a separate afterlife universe.
    
    4) "I hope you do have a belief in good and evil?"
    I don't believe in good and evil. I KNOW good and evil. I know all life has the capacity to do good or evil. We all have brains that have neuron activity that could lead in either direction.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 29 2011: I appreciate your considerations over my views mate :)
      i would like to make it more simple now...
      
      1 & 2) If we had to believe on wikipedia and stuffs before coming up with our views, then why would we even bother to speak our minds here? Can you prove why does Modern Medical Science is still not awared 10% of the reasons of being impotent?? Why 70% of world is of water, same as our body consists the same proportion?? Why still science is not capable of producing Magnet??
      
      3 & 4) Infact there are found to be more than 11 dimensions, can you explain from you own poin of views, but not from wikipedia's search...What does it take to diff in doing good and bad without coming up with outcomes? Why still we insist in doing good then??
  - Vasil Rangelov 50+
    
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    Mar 29 2011: 1) "If we had to believe on wikipedia and stuffs before coming up with our views, then why would we even bother to speak our minds here?"
    There is a difference between facts and opinions. A fact is something that can be confirmed to be true, whereas an opinion is something that can't be. A person's "views" are his opinions. They don't include "facts" by definition. "Facts" are instead part of a person's "knowledge", and can often be used as a basis for forming "views" on non-yet-proven issues.
    
    You can't have an opinion on whether the earth is flat or round - it's a fact that the earth is round. If you strive to be an astronaut, you could see it for yourself (i.e. this is provable), but until then, video footages will have to serve as proof for you and me alike.
    
    We're speaking our minds here to put out our opinions, learn/teach facts and opinions, reshape our views, repeat.
    
    2) "Infact there are found to be more than 11 dimensions"
    Those 11 dimensions are currently only mathematically proven. Science hasn't yet figured out if/how each one of those dimensions, beyond the 4th, fits into our universe, because no scientist has yet come up with a physical test that someone can perform to see this. But again, even if they do, that's still our universe, not a separate universe.
    
    3) "Can you prove why does Modern Medical Science is still not awared 10% of the reasons of being impotent??"
    And you're saying (again without proof) modern medical science became aware of 90% because God/religion changed its mind and decided the world needs to know? Facts suggest otherwise - that those 90% were found by scientists instead. It's only a matter of time before the other 10% are found, same way as the 90% were once 0%.
    
    4) "Why 70% of world is of water, same as our body consists the same proportion??"
    Maybe because the universe is actually behaving in a predictable way regardless of scale - like a fractal.
    
    5) "Why still science is not capable of producing Magnet??"
    Floppy disks?
    - Matthieu Miossec 100+
      
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      Mar 29 2011: I've got a magnet on my fridge Younus.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 29 2011: Floopy disk doesn't produce magnet, instead every electronics is made up of magnet. Again magnet can not be produced :)
      
      @ Matthieu - Same reply for you, fridge works because of magnet, but is not a source to PRODUCE it :)
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 29 2011: Earth is not found to be round, but an egg shaped :)
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 29 2011: Water is itself a mystry brother, there are many other factors as to why universe behaves in such pattern. I would suggest you to learn about water, and you'll come up with a new understanding of why, how, when and what could be done by water :)
      
      I have studied water in depth and still learning about it and the more i come to know it, the more curious it makes me
  - Vasil Rangelov 50+
    
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    Mar 29 2011: @Younus Ali
    "Water is itself a mystry brother, there are many other factors as to why universe behaves in such pattern."
    Exactly the reason God is not it. There are MANY factors. Using a being that made it that way is over simplification that doesn't map to the truth. You said you've studied water in depth... have you found any evidence of there being God involved in its creation? Any test that we may do in a certain environment which would suggest that water has a free will, therefore has some sort of an energy or matter that has will, therefore "god" per your earlier definition?
    
    "Floopy disk doesn't produce magnet, instead every electronics is made up of magnet. Again magnet can not be produced :)"
    I'm not sure I follow... for something to be made up of a magnet, doesn't that magnet have to first be produced, and therefore, aren't we able to produce magnets?
    
    "Earth is not found to be round, but an egg shaped :)"
    I didn't say "sphere", I said "round", and an "egg" is a kind of a round shape. Last time I checked, earth isn't exactly an egg either, but more like "rounded egg-like" shape... but that's just semantics anyway. Point was that it's not what religions want you to "believe" without evidence.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 29 2011: I would recommend you to read the Holy book, Quran. It was revealed 1400 years back and the things which are mentioned there in that holy book, science has reached to this era with new findings.
      Furthermore, here is the link i would like you to watch,
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g
    - Matthieu Miossec 100+
      
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      Mar 30 2011: please go proselytize somewhere else, nobody cares about your book.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 31 2011: http://aaiil.org/text/acus/islam/mrgpbuh.shtml
      
      I am justifying the unkonwns to you Matthieu. You need to know to broaden your views and correct them by yourself being understood of the history, not self knowledge.
    - Matthieu Miossec 100+
      
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      Mar 31 2011: This is the problem with you strongly religious people, you don't even read the links you flood discussion boards with. At no point does it mention or attempt to justify Mohammed sleeping with a kid.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 31 2011: Who are we to discuss people??
      
      great minds discuss ideas, mediocers discuss events and ordinary minds discuss people!!
      
      Hope you come out of this discussion with some new idea dude :)
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 31 2011: I am sorry Birdia .. stay happy
    - Matthieu Miossec 100+
      
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      Mar 31 2011: That's right Birdia...
      Way to go on avoiding the question Younus...
      Also who are you to judge the quality of my mind? Speak for yourself.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Apr 2 2011: Its better not to speak before those, who are not willing to listen carefully and understand.
      I just did that, and remained the arguments to know rather than arguments for sake of arguments Matthieu.
      
      I can't make a judgement on any person unless I know the person in personal capacity :)
      That is why i discuss ideas, not people.
      
      Cheers
  - Vasil Rangelov 50+
    
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    Mar 29 2011: I admit I haven't read the Quran, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Allah, like Yahweh, a supernatural being that allegedly created the world and man and has since then monitored the world and man, and being responsible for various events throughout the holy book (in your case the Quran) and since then up to nowadays?
    
    That's different from your definition, but regardless... there's no evidence for either being's existence. There may be things in it that don't contradict with science, but so there are in any science-fiction art work. That doesn't make the false parts of science-fiction works true, the same the true parts of a holy book (Bible and Quran alike) don't make the false parts true.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 30 2011: http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah1.htm
      
      Please go through this link brother, i hope it will clear the misconceptions :)
      
      Cheers
    - Matthieu Miossec 100+
      
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      Mar 31 2011: if Muhammad is Allah's prophet, shouldn't he know better than to make love to an nine year old? I'm not making this up, his wife Aisha was nine years old when he consummated their marriage.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Mar 31 2011: I have posted a link for you Matthieu above.
      
      Peace
  - Vasil Rangelov 50+
    
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    Mar 31 2011: @Younus Ali
    The only thing the link you gave cleared up was that Yahweh is not the name of the Christian God, but a title, and that Allah is a name... fine... I accept that... you still haven't answered my question, which has nothing to do with that.
    
    The question was about the definition of God/The LORD/Yahweh/Al-Rab (allegedly named Allah or an unpronounceable Hebrew word) being different from your definition, and if you have any evidence supporting the existence of either being, having studied water more deeply than (I'd guess) most of us here.
    
    I'm guessing you don't have any evidence for God in any definition, but instead have evidence supporting many other (read: not divine) factors' influence on the universe.
    - Younus Ali
      
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      Apr 4 2011: We are unable to define that Supreme power Vasil. Its for those to look into nature and imagine how this nature functions?
      I have no words to define Him.
      
      In every thing of nature, you'll find His supermacy and love. I hope it clears the small questions...
  - Vasil Rangelov 50+
    
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    Apr 4 2011: "We are unable to define that Supreme power Vasil."
    If that's true, then all holy books must be wrong. They are written in human languages, they define God and we can't define that supreme power in any human language, therefore holy books are wrong. Would you agree? If not, this can only mean that the supreme power is definable, as is done by [whichever holy book one finds to be true (Quran in your case)].
    
    "In every thing of nature, you'll find His supermacy and love."
    Including planet wiping supernovas, brain eating Blue-footed Boobies, genocide-striking human deceases, [insert other bad things in the universe]?
- Sam Largaespada
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  Mar 29 2011: This is not me ignoring or misunderstanding entropy, i know exactly how it works. and im not ignoring the sun. i fully recognize that even with life becoming more ordered, the total entropy of earth is still increasing. all im saying is that i like to think god has something to do with creating a force that seems to go against the flow of chaos
  - Matthieu Miossec 100+
    
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    Mar 29 2011: "I like to think" and "I believe [...] proves" are two very different ideas. Also life is not the only thing that can get more ordered locally in the universe. I like how you think this universe was made for us when we've only been here for a few thousand years (the universe having been there for 13.7 billion) and we inhabit a small part of an arm of an overall unremarquable galaxy.
    - Sam Largaespada
      
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      Mar 29 2011: i never said the universe was made for us. in fact im trying to say the exact opposite. that we are trying to form a niche in a very harsh universe
  - Matthieu Miossec 100+
    
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    Mar 30 2011: Where does God fit into that then?

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