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Nicholas Lukowiak

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There exist objective moral truths

I do believe there exist objective moral truths, such as, "a person being punished for something they did not do is wrong."

But, there exist counter arguments and positions which believe there are no objective moral truths, because ethical knowledge is usually subjective or relative which means they cannot be consider objective. Such as non-cognitivism and emotivism

Obviously the process to figure out what is objectively moral would be a difficult one, but can it be done? Consensually, empirically?

Are there objective moral truths? What are they?!?!

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Closing Statement from Nicholas Lukowiak

Dear future interested reader,

IF there is anything to take from this closed debate, it is the fact one must define their terms and defend them in order to be 'right'. This creates monumental problems when debating with other people. So, try to stick with the most recognizable or common context of terms.

As far as being 'objective' I propose there is no way around being first subjective. While many believe since we are automatically subjective, we can never not be subjective. I see much error in this way of thinking, but appreciate the challenge of figuring out why. I believe in process/procedure in alignment with all of the universe. There is nothing that exist without evolving... Change in decay, [re]production, or [re]acting... Therefore, to assume there exist an 'objective truth' and then believing we can never know the exact nature of such... Seems counter-intuitive and only productive in a form of absurdity. The sciences are very successful building off of what is considered objective;by means of community, consistency and consensus.

Morality is individual. Ethics is the subject of morality. A moral decision is a personal one, not a communal thing. Although communities can dictate an individual's morals... The moral is still the individuals'.

I believe there are objective moral truths.

No one can make an argument genocide is proper or punishing an innocent is amazing! These thoughts are innately wrong for a reason... We are naturally endowed with wanting to seek social acceptance, and that involves questioning what we accept with how others treat us socially. If you, yourself, do not enjoy being harmed, what makes you think another would? What human doesn't want the basic needs of life?

What made people not want to accept my position is the immediate condition of the world... Well, the world, cultures, work in giant cultural cycles... Figuring them out helps.

Keywords: Prosocial selection and evolutionary psychology

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    Jan 4 2013: Mankind is subjective, so objective moral truth cannot begin with mankind. If objective moral truth exists then it must come from a higher source. We are back to the "Does God exist" question.

    :-)
    • Jan 4 2013: Objective moral truth can be established on facts. Yes, mankind is subjective, but scientific facts are not. When mankind learn the necessary scientific facts objectively concerning a particular moral dilemma, they can use these facts to establish an objective answer. Just because some of the answers to what is "good" or "bad" may be difficult to answer, it doesn't mean there isn't a correct answer, but the best way to get this answer would be through scientific study.
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        Jan 5 2013: History provides examples of nations following various religions & none(which is really just a belief system as well). Some work better than others, but a lack of god doesn't shine out as a moral beacon. There is nothing new under the sun, but each generation thinks it has all the answers; mine included.

        :-)
        • Jan 5 2013: True, the lack of god doesn't signify the presence of morality or reason, but in some situations it can hold back the progress of it. I agree that each generation thinks it has all the answers because each generation is (more or less) going forward in establishing a more accurate morality correlating with advancements in science. I would think one can claim morality as it's own field of study which is advancing at a similar pace to science. Future generations will look back on how immoral we were today compared to their own more moral standards.
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      Jan 4 2013: Peter,

      I do believe 'God' exist - in you/myself, as an energy in the universe, and perhaps even a conscious omni-being...

      But hardly does the nature of God dictate we cannot understand objective truths... If anything God would have knowledge of the absolute moral truths; xe would know what is right and wrong for EVERY living organism and not just humans...

      Well, I kind of don't care about how ants treat ants, I care about humans treat humans and that can be looked at objectively - not absolutely. Consensus, community and consistency (not necessarily science) can dictate objective moral truths...

      (Did you read 'some' of the conversation before you posted?)
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        Jan 5 2013: I skimmed some of the replies before posting.

        If we are talking Abrahamic God, then we must allow for the effects of sin on an originally-perfect creation. The original creation would have firmly entrenched morals, installed by God. Today we have a bit of a pig's breakfast as we seek to superimpose our preferences on Gods perfect morals.

        Any other god; I am not qualified to say.

        :-)
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          Jan 5 2013: Nothing you dictated disqualifies human beings from being able to be objective about human beings...
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      Jan 5 2013: I thought Jesus told us that he is 100% man (body) and 100% God (soul). And that we are his brother and sister. Would that not infer that we too, that so is our brother, 100% Man and 100% God?
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      Jan 5 2013: " At all times in mans history, man makes reference to a God or gods in order to explain or bring an understanding to concepts that he,(man) did not posse. Eventually, given time, science focused on explaining the mystery of the unexplainable. As knowledge increased over time, so did understanding. What was once attributed to God is now known through science. My belief is, religion was the precursor to science. Religion tried to answer questions that man had, and when the answer was not available it was given over to the realm of God. We must have an evolutionary need to have answers, and God was the provider of those answers. I believe that man created God. We created a divine God to be the keeper of answers to mysteries we did not yet have.

      Gods have always existed because the answers to our questions have always existed, we just did not have the understanding at the time.

      God provided or became the answer without needing the understanding." ~Dennis Hollinger

      We had the questions, we have the answers, and we can put the puzzle together as humans for the understanding. I think though if you look hard to occam's razor existence you will find that on every level of existence all that's ever been going on from the beginning of time is trying to figure it out on some fundamental level

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