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What do you think of the idea of mind over matter?

What if I told you that science is proving the things that the "ancients" said where possible. the ability to change our surroundings with thought alone, healing the sick with our energy. Souls, life after death, the ability to tap into untapped mental/spiritual potential. Like pre-cog, and empathy. Noetic science has weighed the "human soul", while Noetic science and bio-field research have started studying human consciousness and energy fields. Where as before many thought these as fairy tales, and fantasy, made only for things such as Star Wars and Star Treck, or religion, which tells stories of healing the sick with the mind, and things spoken into existence. Can we really do it? Now science is going about to prove these questions.
So what do you think? Possible, but improbable? Or probable, but impossible.

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  • Dec 2 2012: MIND is matter. Matter IS MIND

    or as Blake said it "Strange and hard this tail I tell but true. Object gross and Unseem Soul are One.

    Existence would not "exist" if this were not fact.
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      Dec 2 2012: I didn't get that at all, lol. Could you elaborate? I got the first point, so is that what that is trying to say? 'Cause that was confusing. What is object gross and unseem soul?
      • Dec 2 2012: Old

        Object "gross" ....gross...... is the external world ...."unseen" was my sp (sorry) it should have been "Unseen"

        You did use the term "Noetic" in your intro ...so I took you up on that.

        Here is an up to-date ...(current)...Noetic mind speaking ....


        Eckhart Tolle

        "The world is an externalization of the HUman mind"
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          Dec 2 2012: Ok, I get it now :) I've only just stumbled upon Noetic science, but the question has always been in my mind, "can we do more". I love the fact that not only is it a yes, but it is now being scientifically proven.
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      Dec 3 2012: "MIND is matter. Matter IS MIND."

      Actually, Ed, the two are too dissimilar to be considered one. If you mean by the statement that we live in a mental universe, then I agree. Our individual and collective minds, and consciousness impact our world for better or for worse, as we're continually creating our experiences here, most unconsciously.

      Mind is eternal; matter is temporal.

      Were matter substantial, it wouldn't decay, and return to dust. That which is real, is that which gave life to the body, as well as to other forms of life, existing outside of the material realm, but giving form to it (a matrix of a sort) without commingling.

      The mind-body dilemma has convulsed and confounded thinkers for centuries, if not millennia. They reasoned: Either all is mind or all is matter, for the two have nothing in common one with the other. From my vantage point, all is Mind, although matter--and the realm of the relative--is a useful, contrived construct for experiencing all that we are.

      We couldn't do that in the realm of the absolute, our true Home, and place of origin.

      The world is a ruse, an illusion, designed perfectly for a divine use, and purpose, which is to know ourselves in our own experiences.

      "The world is an externalization of the HUman mind."

      On this we agree: As with the body, a substrata of the errant, material human mind, and not our spiritually-perfect mind, the world takes form in that crucible of imperfection, and we become subject to its many vagaries.
      • Dec 3 2012: Wilber

        Don't want to get picky here but...

        If you agree with .."The world is an externalization of the HUman mind."

        then it is a matter (not pun intended) which "world" do we wish to consider the Matter we are discussing ..Is it the so called "Material" world ...(the lowest of the vibrations) ? or is it the Psychical?? or is it the Noetical???

        No matter which of the three realms chosen, the "Forms" which Mind holds to be matter can always be recalled from Cosmic Mind ( ancients call it "Akashic records") and since in all 3 Realms they came out of Mind theyremain Mind .

        And now I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say "We couldn't do that in the realm of the absolute, our true Home, and place of origin. " We , as HUmans, are Dual in nature ....we are both HUman nature and we are Divine/Absolute Nature,, and we have the ability to, when reaching that state when our HUman nature evolves to the Highest frequency ( Absolute Nature ) and stay in BOTH or dissolve into At-One-Ment.

        I think that when you said "we don't do that" you were referring to the latter ....But because our young host here is bringing in the "Noetic" aspect of Consciousness I wanted to focus in on it because it eliminates the so-called "mind-body dilemma".

        Be Well Be Present
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          Dec 3 2012: I believe that you're confusing "matter" with substance. Spirit is eternal. Matter is temporal. Were the physical matter of this world truly substantial, and not a misrepresentation of our corresponding material conscience, it would be as spiritual--and therefore as eternal--as Spirit itself.

          Clearly it's not. And in the words of the Bible: the flesh cannot inherit the kingdom.

          "We ... are Dual in nature ....we are both HUman nature and we are Divine/Absolute Nature,, and we have the ability to, when reaching that state when our HUman nature evolves to the Highest frequency ( Absolute Nature ) and stay in BOTH or dissolve into At-One-Ment."

          Appearance is not reality: We never leave the absolute. We only think we can and do. Were we able to leave Home, we wouldn't find it upon returning.

          And, too, the appearance of "duality" is itself an illusion. We're never "human" but always divine, for if it were possible to desecend into matter, we'd lose our deific standing, and for that moment, God would find Herself experiencing our limitations in the flesh.

          We're always One with God, and neither can we come nor go,
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          Dec 6 2012: Hi Wilbert,

          You can say we are human and divine. What you call divine I might agree with half of that, except the magic bits and explanations for some of it. Same for spirit.

          I understand what you mean by everything we sense and perceive is subjective to some extent. We are limited by our senses and a brain/mind that is subject to hallucinations, trance, agency assumption, imaginary friends etc.

          But it is a false dichotomy to suggest we can not distinguish reality from fantasy to some practical extent.

          Try walking front of a bus if you want to test practical reality. Its a bit different from a drug trip etc.

          I suggest its not a very robust approach to believe our human senses are limited therefore I can believe anything I want. They are all equal.

          I note you pick and choose from established scriptures that suit your own world view.
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          Dec 7 2012: Ask ten people what spirit is and you get ten different opimions with no actual suppoetimg evidence.

          I suggest spirit is a himan concept of some sort of magical energy or life force with no sound basis to indicate what it is how ot works or even if it is real.
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        Dec 4 2012: Actually, as far as we know mind is a product of the physical brain.
        You damage the brain, you damage the cognitive functions of the brain.
        Do we have consciousness, memory etc all worked out. No. But to inject magic is just an argument from ignorance no matter how intuitively it fits your world view.

        You say we are always one with god, when we also don''t have any compelling evidence for the existence or nature of any such beings. Again, just a human concept.

        It is possible to grasp that our mind is the product of our brains without reverting to mysticism.
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          Dec 4 2012: "How do you distinguish between a dream and reality. Between astral projection and hallucination?"

          In the relative realm, all is dream. Reality is no more real for the saying: it's all illusions. Ultimate reality may be seen--appreciated--the closer we approach "perfect love."

          Very few on this planet, living out the dream we call reality, have experienced ultimate reality--although the potentiality is always there.

          "Why do you think your subjective interpretation is better than others."

          I don't. It's not. "Better than" is a mirage, an illusion. No "way" is superior to another. They all lead to the same place: Home.

          "No life after death or reincarnation as far as we know."

          Define "we."

          If we're to capitulate to science for every belief we entertain--every knowing--and dismiss all anecdotal information, and evidence, as inadmissible, then we are nothing more than automatons, fit only to worship at the shrine of empiricism.

          "Actually, as far as we know mind is a product of the physical brain. You damage the brain, you damage the cognitive functions of the brain."

          If you damage any receiver--whether it be the brain, or a radio, or a television--you compromise the function of that receiver, and in the case of the brain, "cognitive functions."

          Just as radio and television signals don't originate in the radio or the television, so with the mind and consciousness--they exist beyond the brain, requiring the physical means accorded by the brain to manifest itself in the physical realm. Those who have OOBE's know this.

          "But to inject magic is just an argument from ignorance no matter how intuitively it fits your world view."

          What's "magic" got do with it? When it comes to metaphysics, science is out of its league--that's all. For now, we'll have to settle for a Mexican Standoff, since science, for all its supposed superior methods, cannot source mind in brain, nor life in body--and for the same reason it can't identify soul and spirit using physical means--they're all metaphysical.
      • Dec 4 2012: Wilbert !
        "Mind is eternal; matter is temporal. "
        Maybe here is the core... division is temporary.
        Erroneously we think , that ' eternal' means lasting infinitely long ; eternity is where time stops and all distinctions cease to exist.
        The distance between the observer and the observed vanishes. Mind is matter and neither of those IS in usual sense. In our human perception, which is based on time mind/matter IS and they are separate, but it's illusion. Let's put it like this : matter is manifestation of mind, and matter 'allows' mind to manifest itself ; they are not separate they are one.
        Something like this ... :)
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          Dec 5 2012: "matter is manifestation of mind, and matter 'allows' mind to manifest itself ; they are not separate they are one."

          Hi, natasha.

          Appearances suggest that your observation is correct. My experience, on the other hand, suggests otherwise.

          Let me explain: I'm an out-of-body explorer. My experience tells me that we don't have one body but two--we have the physical body that will last for an indeterminate time, but will eventually return to the "dust" from which if came--the material substance of this planet.

          Then we have the non-physical body--the one that is actually used to explore this dimension, as wells as others. This body is made of non-physical stuff--stuff that's impervious to pain, and decay. And too: It has other remarkable qualities.

          From this non-physical body, the physical body is given both life and consciousness, and provides the sensation that we attribute to our material body.

          Consequently, the physical body isn't sentient, and neither is it alive, but is kept alive in a rather remarkable way. Since mind separates from the physical body during these out-of-body excursions, it's not dependent on brain for its manifestation.

          Think of the physical body as a kind of "avatar," a hat tip to James Cameron, and his movie by the same name. Our non-physical self uses the physical body as an avatar so that it might navigate the physical realm, that which it is not, but which provides it with the opportunity to experience itself where one thing is define by another, love by fear, and spirit by matter.
      • Dec 5 2012: Hi, Wilbert !
        Mind is not actually yours, what we call 'my mind' is a filtered limited information that insure our ego survival, it means ' to be' ' I am that ' and thanks God we have it :) But MIND goes through you, the physical body is sentient, is alive is conscious as everything is, because MIND is everywhere, it manifests itself through matter. " there is no dust that has not been alive "
        Don't take me wrong, i am not arguing with you, it's just the way i see it, now :)
        Thanks for responding !

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