TED Conversations

Mitch SMith

TEDCRED 50+

This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »

The case for cloud-seeding

It is quite evident that most states in the world now conduct cloud seeding.

Cloud seeding is not all that new, in my youth it was common in the apple growing districts to shoot skyrockets above possible hail formations to disrupt the coalsecence of hail stones and reduce their impact on the crops. I believe the active chemical used was silver nitrate.

The more common chemical seen in modern cloud seeding is silver iodide. This nucleates rain drops which then gather electrostatically into cloud.

You will recognise them for their whispy-feathery appearance, which may or may not form into rain clouds - depending on the ambient humidity.

The presence of cloud seeding was first noticed by conspiracy theorists as "chemtrails", agianst which no official refutation was poffered - because no public agreement was sought for the practice.

I can think of some good reasons for cloud seeding - wildfire mittigation, cachement optimisation (water-supply dams) or even mittigation of global warming.

We don't know the justifications because we were not consulted. And the debate was never undertaken.

Let's have the debate now.

To kick it off, i will opose the practice and state as my opening arguement that: cloud seeding is vandalism of the sky.

Please state and argue your case:

For and against.

+4
Share:

Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.

  • thumb
    Dec 11 2012: Somehow the words 'quantum physics' and oscillating waves as seen on an oscilloscope seem appropriate, not sure why. Got the bit about entropy.
    • thumb
      Dec 12 2012: Yes - waves are good. They can be measured - but the waves of the subatomic particles cannot be measured. To measure things requires the investigator to place something in the wave which is smaller than the wavelength of the thing being measured. Sub atomic particles have nothing smaller - so they can only be deduced theoretically.
      There is nothing smaller than a subatomic particle because anything that inflects its entropic field would produce infinite entropic potential (gradient goes vertical = division by zero) - and the universe does not venture beyond a singularity.
      This is in accordance with entropic waves - each wave contains a self within the negentropic envelope and a field of super-entropy defining the balance against universal entropy. The gradient of universal entropy is made steeper whwn you look at teh line from peak to trough. That line represents a gradient which is greater than the universal entropic gradient - an area of greater potential - which is a perfect environment for another self to form-up. So you get a bunch of new smaller selves riding on the increased potential of teh larger self. As you might see, these smaller selves also give rise to steeper gradients - and will spawn more sub-entities - with even steeper potentials - and so on til you get a near-vertical line - a subatomic particle.
      LOL! one can postulate the big wave at the top of this process - it might not even have a gradient - it might be the first gradient - the origin of all potential .. perhaps you could name it "god" .. but such tokens only appy to one's own scale .. and it is pointless to name it anything beyond "universe".

      So what is happening with geoengineering(cloud seeding) is that a certain class/scale of entropic entities is trying to flatline the super entropic field surrounding it (risk deferral) by manipulating the potentials of teh wider self on which they depend (the earth). The Earth might have other ideas.
      • thumb
        Dec 12 2012: Hi Mitch, possibly going to get shouted at again by TED staff but upon reflection have the following to say and it will take a couple of posts. 1. Have known for a long time family name is actually Clan MacRae but found out yesterday possibly a descendant of Bonnie Prince Charlie (so what, good luck proving that one). Clan motto is with fortitude (family attributes strength and a kind heart) so not wanting to let the ancestors down here goes. Firstly I want you to look up Thomas the Rhymer (a 13th century Scottish poet and seer) and see if any of his stuff is relevant, particularly the bit about black rain. 2. Want you to know Mother Nature does not permit any dysfunctional organism to survive for long. 3. So called mental illness is not necessarily dysfunctional just out of step with what a society might want at a particular time. That is why I want you to look at the tradition of Scottish seers. 1715 was a turning point in my family history, Clan Macrae did their best but due to someone else's mistake, they paid heavily. Clan Macrae were noted as poets, physicians and musicians. So many people do not know their family history past the immediate four generations beforehand but we inherit so much in our genes and it takes a decent education to be able to utilise it. Caring for someone who seems erratic and chaotic given a 24 hour linear time frame is exhausting and I truly hope you are OK because carers do a massive service to society and get no financial renumeration for it. Carers do it for love and yet are also expected to continue to pay the bills regardless of how much they save society in other ways. Got some thoughts about the actual conversational thread here and going to post in addition.
      • thumb
        Dec 12 2012: Second post, (there will be a third directly related to the debate about cloud seeding too). Want to offer you the words of Ashley Rice 'As you go on in this world..always believe in your dreams. Keep looking forward to the future...to all you might be. Don't let old mistakes or misfortunes hold you down. Learn something new every day. Be interested in others and what they might teach you. Believe in yourself. So long as you are true to the strength within your own heart...you can never go wrong.
        • thumb
          Dec 12 2012: OK - I'll take it point by point (will take a efw posts - but well worth it):
          TED stands for technology, entertainment and design.
          Being a practitioner of all these, I am happy to be here - but I'm not fooled.
          These are the vectors of agendas.
          Within the entropic ripple created by TED, it is not just the speakers who get to feast at teh gradient - I know a stage when I see one ;)
          The administrators are careful that the posters do not add flavour - at least, nothing beyond the official morsels in the talks - they have agendas to protect.
          Every rule creates winners, losers and cheats - winning and losiing is boring - have fun instead.
          In the agrarian model of humanity there are only 4 roles to ply:
          Farmer, Sheep, Sheepdog and Wolf - only one is human, and only one lies beyond the fence. The fence is an entropic membrane - a closed one.
          My mob are from Glasgow - Leaches and Smithies all, then there's the Irish and teh Romany midwives - all mixed together in the docklands east end of London - pearly kings.
          I did all the metaphysics stuff - but the language is broken and new words must be made.
          Entropy is un-sullied - and all it means is a transition from coherence to homogeneity.
          True - pattermning is seen everywhere, but these are the ripples of negentropy - teh background radiation tells the story.
          And you can observe it - my thesis consists entirely of the obvious.
          You eat and extrete - what comes out of you is de-structured compared to what goes in.
          I started on this while examining the obvious system of survival = stimulus/reaction where the reaction maintains the ability for stimulus. So it makes a loop .. and I ask myself - a loop in what? Well .. it's energy .. but where does the energy come from? Well, it comes from some kind of storage .. and how does it get stored .. mostly from other living things - plus a bit of salt from teh earth. But is the earth not living? Let's assume that it is. Here is assumption 1 - let's test it by and by.
          (contd.)
        • thumb
          Dec 12 2012: Thomas the Rymer sounds like he was drunk a lot of the time (Wa's fu?)
          That's not a criticism - there are times for such things, and in Scotland, that was most of the time ;)
          Anyway - the entropy thing is an exercise in extrapolating the bleedin' obvious - assuming that everything is obvious and there are not a lot of rules in a universe.
          Have a look at Wolfram - his cellular autonoma are very much like what i call "shapes" - they are very simple but can generate any amount of complexity so long as they get energy. .. so what if the shape IS energy? That would make things quite a lot simpler - and I feel that the truth of the universe is far too simple to convey in words - so i use models.
          My basic model is a sloping line (entropy) with a sine-wave modulating it in one single cycle - I call that "self" - it is a standing wave maintained by the loop. And I nicked the idea of "conservation" from Newton - otherwise a self would be just a hump on the entropic slope - all sine waves go above and below the zero reference - so if an observable self is teh lumpy thing we see - then it must have a dip around it which we don't see. But we do see things in that dip - other selves. I propose that where the hump ends and teh dip begins is a thing we call "skin". So I go looking round for anything that might be remotely described as a self - and they all have some kind of skin - and they are all surrounded by other selves - smaller ones consuming the exreta of the larger one.
          It works in physical space and it works in meta-space.
          I'm still evolving eh description of meta space - potential agency is the energy of meta-space. Potential - any graph that has the X axis as time is about potential. So now we start to get a handle on time. SO I assert that all potential arises in entropy.
          This absolutely destroys world-views - and that is my jehad - it's time for all world views to fall - they are clogged up with the lies and wrong turns of history.
          (contd.)
        • thumb
          Dec 12 2012: That is not my only jehad - you cannot just go tearing down 7 billion world-views (and teh meta-creatres that dwell in them) without providing an escape hatch.
          So I describe healthy community where I can and spend time with healthy communities when I can - I make pennywhistles because when one has no road left but the narrow one beset by brambles, it's nice to have a tune.
          But that is a bit glib - the pennywhistle is humble - but it is cheap and easy to play - and it makes music from the breath and teh hands - it bypasses the world view - and makes a path directly from what we call the "heart" to the world of our life. One cannot pick up a pennywhistle, with the serious intent to play, without starting on a journey of purification.
          I call it "the way of teh tin leprechaun" - and it is a doorway to heaven - it leads one into the company of other pure hearts. I can't describe it properly - you just have to do it and observe - it is real magic - similar to the mandrake, but without the violation - reality changes. So .. one gets curious, and this leads to the physics of self - I am certain that the autobiographical self in humans is critically ill - it is suposed to be a tool, but has become identity - and god.
          There will certainly be black rain in Aberdeen - but the darkness falling on the north is invisible - and it comes from Japan, not Scotland. Perhaps Aberdeen will get some volcanic matter when iceland goes off. All that mass-loss in greenland will affect the tectonic plates - and the atlantic rift has been strangely quiet - as has the sun.
          With the ionic balance of sea land and air beign altered, all manner of strange things happen in the plasma behaviour - things start getting more combustible (flame being a plasma). Being so close to the skin of teh Earth, the behaviour of the Earths wider super-entropic field (the magnetosphere) weakens - and the old man Ra has paused to think about his child. Ra has a bright finger - that's not water erosion on Mars ;)

Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.