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Mitch SMith

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The case for cloud-seeding

It is quite evident that most states in the world now conduct cloud seeding.

Cloud seeding is not all that new, in my youth it was common in the apple growing districts to shoot skyrockets above possible hail formations to disrupt the coalsecence of hail stones and reduce their impact on the crops. I believe the active chemical used was silver nitrate.

The more common chemical seen in modern cloud seeding is silver iodide. This nucleates rain drops which then gather electrostatically into cloud.

You will recognise them for their whispy-feathery appearance, which may or may not form into rain clouds - depending on the ambient humidity.

The presence of cloud seeding was first noticed by conspiracy theorists as "chemtrails", agianst which no official refutation was poffered - because no public agreement was sought for the practice.

I can think of some good reasons for cloud seeding - wildfire mittigation, cachement optimisation (water-supply dams) or even mittigation of global warming.

We don't know the justifications because we were not consulted. And the debate was never undertaken.

Let's have the debate now.

To kick it off, i will opose the practice and state as my opening arguement that: cloud seeding is vandalism of the sky.

Please state and argue your case:

For and against.

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    Dec 11 2012: Doiuble post because got some more to say. Existentialism argues life is random and chaotic and we each construct belief systems based partly on nature and partly on nurture. Linking to Damasio 3 levels of self, now in talking therapy there is a way of working which asks people to listen to their hearts and stomachs as well as what their mind is telling them. The Enlightenment meant the mind became the so-called centre of our intelligence but now people talk about emotional intelligence and spiritual intelligence as well. It seems as soon as one person demonstrates some kind of advantage in the utilisation of local resources, other people want to take advantage of it and somehow whatever that advantage is becomes a distinct commodity. So on one level my arguement is messing around with the atmosphere is really bad news because the results locally may be advantageous short term but disasterous long term. Agree it is in the other sources of news like the internet and the scientific journals that evidence-based scientific discussion is found rather than every day media. Now global communication used to be through cables laid along the sea bed and now it is via satellite relays. If the electron balance in the sky is altered by practices such as cloud seeding, what might the effect on the internet 'cloud' be ?
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      Dec 11 2012: well .. at the risk of being called a conspiracy theorist again (lol - I've also been accused of being the Illuminatii!) it goes like this:
      current energy state(entropy gradient)-->senses-->perception-->potential agency-->decision-->agency-->changed energy state(inflected entropy gradient) --> repeat loop until collapse. Everything between perception and agency(inclusive) is the self - it can have any number of arcane levels but has survival at its root.
      The potential agency bit is divided into 2 parts - potential advantage and potential disadvantage. If teh self chooses disadvantage, the negentropic inflection which houses it will collapse - so it has to choose the advantage. Potential advantage can have a lot of stuff in it - evolution does not care - it's survival of teh fittest, so all advantage qualifies. However, if the highest advantage(supremacy) is always chosen, then the tower of Babel starts building up to its ultimate fall. In humans it is a little more complex - because the field pf potential agency is not just divided into advantage/disadvantage - it is also divided into individual and community - thus one can choose a potential action that is advantageous to the person, but disadvantage to teh community - this is called sin. If one chooses potential actions that are advantage to both self and community it is called morality, if one chooses action that is disadvantage to self and advantage to communty, it is called martyrdom. If on habitually chooses sin, the benefit of community is destroyed - it's ripple collapses - and the individual with it. Evil is where the individual brings the community to the brink of collapse and keeps it there - this also initiates the tower of Babel.
      Existential life is, indeed chaos, but chaos is not disorder - chaos creates the filaments of existence - like curls of smoke - the arabesque of the fields of super-entropy surrounding the selves of negentropy which are created by the existential loop which ripples in entropy.
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      Dec 11 2012: (second post)

      The conspiracy bit:

      Communities can be no larger than about 200 individuals - we simply don't have the cranium-space to accomodate more. So when you get 7 billion people it is really just an agregation of communities.
      So the communities try to maintain their coherence by having a ruling class. In the democratic model, the ruling class is "elected" to "represent" the collective - which never actually happens. THe instant any group becomes defined by a membrane of closure - it becomes a self and will cycle acording to the existential loop in the interest of its own survival. Since it is a meta-self, it has no connection with the physical biosphere and does not see it. These artificial community selves then begin to harvest the entropic potential from teh "citizens" they become evil by the definition stated above.
      So, it was asked elsewhere "where do conspiracies come from" they come from communities that get too large. This spawns meta selves that act as parasites on humans. There is no formal cabal - it just happens. They give themselves names and flags later to fortify and close teh membrane surrounding them.
      The membrane is very important - it must be porous - if it is hermetic, it will close the system resulting in exponential tensions around the membrane. The trick is to have a membrane which is restrictive enough to inflect the entropic gradient into negentropy - and not so closed that it isolates from it's own super-entropic field. That field will flatline - at the point it flatlines, the entropic gradient supporting the negentropic envelope collapses. You can tell when this is about to happen because the negentropic envelope becomes very narrow and higher - a tower. When it collapses .. it does not tumble-down - it simply becomes infinitely thin by virtue of teh exponents going vertical at the singularity - it then burns-out (often explosively - rupturing the membrane). The universe will not venture beyond a singularity.
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        Dec 11 2012: Wow, need some time to digest this little lot. Great debate Mitch, thank you so much.

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