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Should we feel gratitude for our life? To whom?
Gratitude is important feeling in interpersonal relationships. Gratitude encourages giving and giving encourages more gratitude, etc. On the other side, lack of gratitude comes with a sense of "entitlement" - they mutually create each other as well. Lack of gratitude discourages giving and creates a sense that the world "owes us" a living. "We are programmed to receive." Gratitude, in my opinion, offers an exit from that proverbial Hotel California and "programs us to give".
How about our life and other things shown in this video? Religious people usually thank God for these things. The camera shows a standing round of applause at the end of the video. I very much doubt that most people attending TED talks are religious, so the video must have stirred some emotion in believers and non-believers alike.
Do non-believers feel gratitude for these things? If yes, to whom?
Sonam Maske
When good things happen the ones who believe in God, are grateful to God. But what about an atheist? He will be happy within himself.
When things go bad the atheist will blame situations, surrounding, people or any other possible thing. God believers will pray or will go at holy places.
For me gratitude is being thankful to whatever good happened. And you should be grateful to those who made good things happen for you, no matter, if its God or human.
Elly Belly
Colleen Steen 500+
Bob Stiglitz
I would venture to say that most who feel gratitude is doing so from a safe/luxurious position in history.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
Colleen Steen 500+
Joe Yam
Louie Andrade
Carl Shaw
To Whom?
I don't call on atheists to start 'believing', just because they want someone to thank. The word 'belief' has become hijacked by religion to mean mindless acceptance of rules and certain facts. An atheist I would see as the opposite - a thinker.
But you see I don't see the choice as between science and religion.
I see the choice as between science-which-sees-God and science-which doesn't-see-Him YET.
Since the Galileo incident science thinks it has been given free-reign to discover truth. In fact it is working blindly on the unwritten hypothesis that He isn't there, & all it produces comes with that hidden assumption. If we want the real truth from science (knowledge) we will have to wait until it can work without that assumption.
Science/physics has many inadequacies which are not widely displayed and this is unfortunate since most thinkers grow to trust its wisdom and professed objectivity and are therefore denied real truth about existence. One day this will change, science will become truly objective, it will be humbled by its apparent previous ignorance.
The thing is religion has got it wrong and so has science/physics!
What we are ultimately talking about is whether the origins of everything are material, or whether they are spiritual. In other words did it all start with a big bang, or did it start with some primordial spiritual (consciousness) awakening somewhere in the nothingness and that consciousness then managed to work out how to make matter.
You can be thankful to God or not, He won't mind, our origins are spiritual, we are all of that same oneness, our consciousness cannot be destroyed and I say this not from belief, but from scientifically obtained evidence, knowledge.
Maaher Sayeed 10+
Who should be we be grateful for life? Well, starting from the ones who gave birth to us, to everyone we share this planet with, and to the nature and perhaps the system or entity that created it all. Just like driving home from work at rush hour in crazy traffic. If one other driver chooses to be irresponsible, defy the rules and cause an accident, we can perhaps be stalled for a good few hours. We perhaps need to be grateful to all those who are courteous enough to adhere to the traffic rules. I guess the same applies to life.
What if you gave someone a gift, and they neglected to thank you for it–would you be likely to give them another? Life is the same way. In order to attract more of the blessings that life has to offer, you must truly appreciate what you already have. — Ralph Marston
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
I'm, definitely, thankful to people who are aware and take care of themselves and others. I also feel gratitude (or appreciation) for my ability to do so and I hope (or pray) that I will be able to do that in the future.
I also try to avoid irritation or anger towards those unfortunate people who do cause accidents or even intentional harm to themselves and others. I rather feel sorry for these people. "We can't all, and some of us don't."
Jale Arditti
After to all what I had-I have on this moment -and I will have
Clifton Visconti
Personally I have experienced pain in my life, I did not like it one bit and I know of no one who likes it so I am compassionate. If I were NOT alive I would not have experienced anything. So to me life is special.
Clifton Visconti
Allan Macdougall 30+
I may be over-analyzing something that should really be left alone to bask in its own glory for us to contemplate, but my own gratitude stems from the notion that such spiritual feelings are primeval psychological imperatives which have evolved in us over thousands of years, and what connects us with nature.
It is the connection with nature that has gone missing in modern life, and Louie Schwartzberg's amazing images remind us that those connections are still there for us to make, if only we let them - and maybe why those images stir up similar feelings in both atheists and believers in God.
Thomas Teuwen
Glenn Beaton
But saying that it's natural to feel gratitude for our lives does not explain away the spiritual element at work. Rather, it focuses on it.
So let's address the question -- to whom do we feel the gratitude?
One facile answer is, to our parents. But that really just begs the question. The question is, to whom should we, and them, and all the rest of us, feel gratitude?
For me, the answer is, God. It was God that created the universe. If not God, then whom? Scientist agree that the universe came into existence 14 billion years ago in a manner that is truly Godlike -- everything was created in an instant out of nothing.
And so it is God to whom we owe it all.
Prakar Jeevan
==you say==
Scientist agree that the universe came into existence 14 billion years ago in a manner that is truly Godlike
=====
Define Godlike
What is the process behind godlike
Also, Gratitude is not a human emotion, Dogs are more grateful to their masters than his maid will be.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
Prakar Jeevan
Thomas Teuwen
scienTEDic DT
Glass was just a metaphor. I agree that empty side is a potential. Every empty side in someones life can be useful and instructive, if you try to work on it. And if someone don't have that kind of point of view, I think nothing can make that person happy. In my humble opinion glass can make me happy if I think about it. It contains art, it is there for a purpose and it is liquid, transparent form of sand. You can hold something liquid as if it is solid..This is very interesting, and adds meaning to life and makes me feel gratitude for its existence. What if there were no glass in the world? Maybe you would say, there would be something else... It might be :)
But maybe we should think about the deffinition of happiness first...
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
Besides, "life" in my question is only a particular example of the abstract beauty of this world for which it is unclear who to thank for - sunshine, stars, flowers, etc. Nobody's mom is to thank for that.
Anyway, it becomes clear to me that it is unnecessary to have an object of gratitude. It's possible to experience an abstract gratitude, not directed at anyone in particular. Interesting conclusion.
Larry Serflaten
Sure, flowers and sunshine are nice thoughts, but they are of little help when you are drowning in sickness, disease, and injury or other hardships. And you can't bow yourself in gratitude to a tree and be taken seriously. Again, it is those people around you that can help or hinder your path through life. When you are helped, you feel good, and when you are hindered, you don't feel as good, correct?
Therefore, to show your gratitude in living a fulfilling life, you should help your neighbors, so that they can also share in the good feelings. Of course help your friends when you are able, but also help complete strangers, when you can see what is needed. Live your life as if you believe the adage; What goes around comes around, and try to stretch beyond that; in that you are often helping (when you can - giving, supporting, complimenting, etc. to include all forms of assistance) with no expectations of receiving some reward. When the act of helping others is reward enough, you will have found satiation for your gratitude.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
Re: "Again, it is those people around you that can help or hinder your path through life. When you are helped, you feel good, and when you are hindered, you don't feel as good, correct?"
Often, we feel helped or hindered just by circumstances, with no active agents involved. Also, materialistically speaking, there is no free will. People say and do stuff reacting to external stimuli using memories and preconditions of the past, pretty much like sophisticated biochemical machines. People often help or hinder others without even being aware of it.
I have hard time fitting gratitude into a purely materialistic and rational worldview.
Obey No1kinobe 50+
I may share similar awe at the universe and our human existence and experience.
I guess I don't see any agency to direct thanks to.
I'm with those who share abstract awe and appreciation of my existence etc.
Colleen Steen 500+
I don't need an agency to direct thanks to, although, I certainly recognize all the "agents" in my life experience who have contributed to my gratitude:>)
Colleen Steen 500+
I'm thankful for your mom giving birth to you guys as well:>)
I disagree Arkady that..."No human can take credit for what our bodies can do - including reproduction." I'm a mom, and I gratefully accept all the credit and gratitude that comes my way:>)
You also say..."Besides, "life" in my question is only a particular example of the abstract beauty of this world for which it is unclear who to thank for - sunshine, stars, flowers, etc. Nobody's mom is to thank for that."
Well, I disagree again:>) My mom taught me how to love and be grateful for everything, including sunshine, stars, flowers, etc. If she had not encouraged love of all living things, acceptance and love of the life experience, I may not have noticed the beauty all around me in every single moment. So, in a round about way (another cycle Arkady!!!) my mom gave me the gifts as well:>)
T. Frank
If you do so, then you enter a Panglossian fantasy, becoming blind to actual reality.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
Perhaps, we can classify our experiences as "pleasant" or "unpleasant". It does not mean that things and people causing unpleasant experiences are bad. Whatever we feel, it's nice to be able to feel it, isn't it?
Dustin Booth
To whom do I feel gratitude for my life? To my parents of course, they gave it to me. Even if they were only doing what was in their nature to do. ;)
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
It is not my goal to promote religious views here. These debates go nowhere. I'm just deeply interested to understand what other people believe. For example, feeling gratitude for the beauty of nature makes no sense from the point of view of an atheist. Yet, many people who do not believe in a Creator do feel such gratitude or something similar to it. On the other side, I am also grateful to my parents for the sacrifices they made for me to help me grow up, but thank them for my life itself does not make sense to me. No human can take credit for what our bodies can do - including reproduction. Some parents do not even make a conscious decision to have children. Besides, if we thank parents for our life, we should also thank the rest of our ancestors up to the first living molecule that was able to reproduce itself. But who shall we thank for giving life to that molecule? It seems the best not to rationalize our irrational feelings.
Prakar Jeevan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitru_Paksha
The reason we thank is human life is valuable.
There is a saying by an ancient saint avvaiyar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avvaiyar
Its rare to be born as human
Its even rare to be born without any birth defects
One need not thank their mom for existence of life on earth and for her ability to bear children. But One must thank and be grateful for their parents , because, they dint abort us or throw us in some orphanage.
============
From your words:
For example, feeling gratitude for the beauty of nature makes no sense from the point of view of an atheist
============
In my opinion, We are nature and seeing nature separate from us is wrong in my opinion. People get pleasure on seeing a waterfall because of the excitement and the refreshing feel that it gives. But still, waterfall is nature and we are also nature. Maybe A bigger being might feel excited on seeing us.
A creator is not needed to be grateful. To be grateful is a character and not a feeling. Feelings will come and go, but a character is like an imprint. For an example one can read the story of Karna (A glimpse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karna). Even when god is against them , a person with gratitude will never let down his friend or anyone who helped them.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
This is a good opinion. I like it.
Re: "To be grateful is a character and not a feeling."
This is an excellent point. This reminds me of this quote:
“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”
Being grateful is a habit, an attitude which is a part of character.
Bradley Breeden
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
The "magic being" is inside. "Goodness in all man" and "the magic being" appear to be the same thing to me :-)
T. Frank
I don't want to wander about feeling grateful all the time, it wouldnt make me any happier, nor the world a better place. I'm content just getting on with my own business.And if I were Billy Liar, I hope I'd escape to London in the end of the film, instead of having been oppressed by "gratitude".
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
I guess, it all depends on how we view gifts. Some gifts are given with grace, with no expectation of any return. Some "gifts" are given to buy future favors. Gratitude for the first kind is liberating and encouraging. Gratitude for the second kind is enslaving - nobody wants to feel indebted.
Perhaps, how we view gifts from others depends on our experiences with giving.
I see some connection here with how people view religion. To some, it is liberating, to some it's enslaving or is a tool to enslave others.
T. Frank
I have a good deal to be greteful for- certainkly my life relative to that of the majority of the world's inhabitants is an extremely comfortable one.
However , I cannot avoid feeling that the world we are in is cruel, and that or species is unusually unpleasant- quite shockingly capable of violence. This is sometimes gratuitous, at other times organise'; sometmes personally directed, at other times randomi or impersonal.
Even if there is not direct violence, there is a constant low level power struggle between people, which makes society unpleasant. I try to escape into the idealised zones of art but that is, of course, merely escape.
Ergo the feelings of gratitude I might have are muted.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
scienTEDic DT
If you think that all these violence, struggle and unpleasant situations may have a reason just for you(!) and individually for everyone else to understand something from it, than it may make you start to see the half full side of the glass. As there is so much struggle, there is so much passion, wisdom and love. Empty side lets you see the value of full side actually and gives you choice to engage that side. The question is, which side do you prefer to see?
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
An empty glass is full of potential. A glass is a good and useful thing by itself. The glass does not have to contain anything for us to feel happy that we have it.
scienTEDic DT
It is the same for the brain. So, how could brain see the light in darkness or hear the sound in silent? According to science; brain gets the electrical signals, don’t hear sounds or see light. There is something beyond this flesh, more than the body, who can love, hate, feel passion, desire and all other emotions. So, this must be the soul or whatever you want to call it. And the soul feels the gratitude for the Creator.
Sebastian Keil
However this also means that I do not really feel any gratitude towards inorganic/non-sentient things, I don't know why that is, it just seems sort of in vain to mr
Casey Christofaris 10+
Leo Gardner
communicating that very well.
I do believe that we are 'selfish', but I don't think that is bad in any way, especially if we
consider ourselves part of a whole. Think of why we are here: nature/God has given
us the sun which gives us energy which is how we are here existing today. So what
is 'ours' to give in the first place when we have been given everything?
*I'm not judging anyone, i don't believe in that. I'm judging actions that people commit, which
I do believe in.
Yubal Masalker 200+
To make it easier to accept our selfishness (which occasionally makes us also to do good deeds) I suggest to replace it with the term “Ego’s NEED”. So it will like saying, we do even the good things as a result of our ego’s need. Need of what ?? A need to feel good that we helped somebody. A need to feel that we are not less good than others who make good things. Sometimes a need to relax our aching conscience. Sometimes a need to be appreciated for our good deeds. Sometimes with the believers in god, a need to obey god’s commands, or a fear of god’s punishment if they do not make good deeds.... and so on.
I slightly disagree with you that ego is (only) the root of evil. True, ego is indeed the root of evil, but it’s only half picture. Because I think ego is also the root for feeling of gratitude and good deeds. As I wrote in my first comment hereby few days ago: It depends which outlook our consciousness (ego) develops. If our outlook is positive – inwardly & outwardly – the feeling of gratitude starts building inside us. The trick is not to avoid the ego, but to become aware of its nature, functioning and influence.
Leo Gardner
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
You just explained how I understand the Zen proverb "Those who tell don't know, and those who know don't tell." It is unfortunate, but the truly wise do not have the urge to show their wisdom. "A prudent man conceals knowledge." -- Proverbs.
It seems to me that what people refer to by "pleasing ego", "pleasing consciousness", "pleasing self" (where "self" means something other than the physical body), and "pleasing god" are exactly the same things.
Re: "True, ego is indeed the root of evil, but it’s only half picture. Because I think ego is also the root for feeling of gratitude and good deeds." -- Exactly. This is why the Bible is full of atrocities as well as most inspiring things.
Haley Goranson
Leo Gardner
Do non-believers feel gratitude for these things? If yes, to whom?
Everyone has a 'god' (a belief), whatever that may be, however its defined,
and whatever it is named. Therefore there is no such thing as a non-believer.
Everyone believes in something.
I will not say anyone should feel gratitude at all. that is their choice. But i do think
it behooves everyone to do so, and then of course to act on that feeling...
Ex: If you believe in 'God', and believe that He gave you life, then you should 'feel'
grateful to him for it.....and give it back to Him the best way you know how :) (acting on your
gratitude)
or
Ex: If you believe in 'Science', etc., then you should feel grateful,, and give your life back in the
best way you know how.
Act on your gratitude:
-take care of your parents,
-help you children,
-protect the environment
or like Louis put it:
We should feel gratitude to those that provide life for us.
These people can be one's parents, teachers, etc.
But at the end of the day, whether you call it God, Singularity, or Primal Existence, I think we all have a deep sense of gratitude to the source of life itself.