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Tabor Williams

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If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?

In the way that some people questions whether or not the ends justify the means, I'm wondering if you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?

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Thanks for all the participation and discussion everyone!

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    Tabor Williams

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    Nov 18 2012: [As I can't respond to Mark Meijer, I'm posting this up here]

    I am indeed looking for justifications for lying, because I'm a writer. I'm interested in what makes people tick, and what makes people act the way they act. I've been trying to play devil's advocate, because I truly am interested in people's thoughts on honesty, and lying.

    Honesty about someone's shirt is not pathetic. You're looking at in the wrong way. Absolute truth means being truthful in all instances. It doesn't pit one truth against another on a scale. In the same way that some people believe that all sins are equal. Do I personally believe that? No. But I'd like to understand why people hold the views that they do.

    Thanks for contributing! :)
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      Arkady Grudzinsky 50+

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      Nov 18 2012: I love Mark's comments. Razor-sharp opinions, clearly stated.

      Re: "Honesty about someone's shirt is not pathetic." There is no such thing as honesty or lying about our attitudes, tastes, preferences, and emotions. They change on a whim. I can make them true or false simply by moving a few mimic muscles.

      I know a person who always answers the question "How are you doing?" - "The best day of my life!" When I asked him why he always says so, he explained that he used to be grumpy, and this is his way to be happier. And, you know what? This answer made me happier too. Is it a lie?

      Some 10 years ago, my wife and I went for a walk downtown. She wore an outfit that didn't seem to me very appropriate. I told her that I'm not very comfortable with it, but not more than that. She still wore it. To my surprise, several random people came up to us in the street to compliment her on her dress - in a good way. Some compliments came from women. Since then I trust her taste more than my own. Honesty about someone's shirt IS pathetic and is not worth much.

    • Mark Meijer 100+

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      Nov 18 2012: If you're interested in what makes people tick, nothing beats observing what makes you tick, because nothing beats first hand experience. You can only hope to guess what motivates other people to the extent that you are familiar with those motivations yourself. All knowledge is self knowledge. But if you want to learn anything, you first have to let go of the idea that you already know.

      Also, why would you say that you can't pit one truth against another on a scale, but you can pit one sin against another on a scale? I happen to agree about the truth thing, truth is truth and is not a matter of degree. But that has nothing to do with words or opinions. In the absolute sense, no words are true, and opinions about people's shirts or anything else are entirely irrelevant.

      So in the absolute sense, nothing is a matter of degree, neither truth nor sin. And actually there is no sin, except perhaps as another word for untruth, and in the absolute sense, all untruth is equally untrue. If you want to put either truth or sin on a scale, you're by definition out of the absolute (and thereby out of truth) and into the relative. There you can talk about degrees of sin and about so-called "true" statements or opinions. Just don't confuse that with absolute truth, they have nothing in common.
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        Tabor Williams

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        Nov 18 2012: I wasn't making the comparison that you can pit sins against one another on a scale. I was actually saying the OPPOSITE that sins can't be compared.

        If you're taking the approach that truth comes from words, obviously an opinion on someone's shirt is irrelevant.

    • richard moody jr 10+

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      Nov 18 2012: What is your take on Kant's categorical imperative about telling the truth? For example if I am harboring a Jewish fugitive and the Gestapo asks if you are hiding someone, do you tell the truth i.e. that yes you are harboring someone or do you lie? From Kant's perspective this is no idle question.

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