- Tabor Williams
- Fair Oaks, CA
- United States
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If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?
In the way that some people questions whether or not the ends justify the means, I'm wondering if you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?
Closing Statement from Tabor Williams
Thanks for all the participation and discussion everyone!
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Colleen Steen 500+
"If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth...", it matters to YOU, because YOU have to live with the consequence of the act of lying. I agree with TED Lover that "Lies have their consequences in the life of the liars", and that idea seems to be reinforced with many insightful comments on this thread.
Very rarely, do people tell one little lie, because once there is a lie, there is a need to keep covering up that lie, so it generally expands. When people lie, they are telling us something about themselves, and as we get to KNOW that people lie, which we eventually do, we learn not to trust that person. So, one who lies, is creating consequences for him/herself. When one lies, it also gets very confusing for the lier....you have to remember all the time what you told each individual person to maintain a coverup for the lie.
Oliver Murray just posted information regarding "The five primary forms of deception..."
Lies, Equivocations, Concealments, Exaggerations, Understatements.
These forms, may at times, have a very fine line between one and the other. The question we can ask ourselves, is what are the consequenses to myself and others with the information I choose to provide....or not. As Linda writes, a lie may "forever change the balance of trust". Is that a consequence we want? What is the point in even taking that chance?
Tabor Williams
I don't know why people take the chance of lying given what's at stake for most of their relationships.
Colleen Steen 500+
You say you recognize that lies have consequences in the liars lives....BUT...sometimes you're sparing someone's feelings. Lying does NOT spare anyone's feelings but your own. Would you like it if people lied to you to spare your feelings? Or would you prefer that people are truthful to you? Personally, I prefer that people are honest with me. As a person with the potential to lie (it's always a choice), I prefer NOT to keep spinning webs in my own life experience.
I suggest that people take the chance of lying, because they want to take care of themselves in the moment and they are not considering the consequences.
Tabor Williams
I do prefer people be honest with me, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking everyone in my life is 100% honest with me, and has never spared my feelings.
Mark Meijer 100+
Anyway, Tabor, whether we spare other people's feelings or not, there's no way around the fact that we do so for self-centered reasons. People generally don't go out of their way to spare anyone's feelings except for a few others they feel in close enough relation to.
More often than not they go out of their way to hurt other people's feelings. Often even those close to themselves, depending on their whim. Either way it's always about the one doing the hurting or the sparing, not about the one getting hurt or being spared. The real lies are not in what we tell others, but in what we tell ourselves.
Despite the vast majority of the comments in these conversations, honesty not about something so pathetic as whether or not you like someone's shirt. It's in a different league altogether.
Tabor, you are clearly looking for all kinds of imaginable justifications for lieing. It's not a matter of whether it's right or wrong, as far as I'm concerned, it's a matter of being completely honest with oneself. For starters, you might want to ask yourself why you are looking for justification.
And don't try to come up with an answer, like a hypothesis. Instead stop taking your own stories at face value for a change, and start observing what actually motivates you to lie throughout the days and weeks of your regular life, why you are presenting yourself to others the way you do in each moment. Assuming you are really interested in questions of truth and lies, that is. Nobody else can tell you why you do what you do and what it matters to you.
Colleen Steen 500+
You ask..."If someone asks you a mundane question like what do you think of X? when you know it is something they're into, how is it wrong to tell them you like it (thinking in terms of how it will work/be for them). Do you think absolute truth is required to be considered an honest person? What if they are considering the consequences, and decide that the upside outweighs the downside?"
First of all, I'm not judging anyone to be "right" or "wrong". The discussion question is..."If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?" I have addressed your question.
To address your recent question...
If a person is really into something and they are considering the consequences to make a decision, it may NOT be a "mundane question", as you say, so why not tell the truth? As I said in another comment..."What is the "big lie", and what is the "little mundane lie" may not be the same for everyone." You may be judging something to be insignificant, so you may think it's ok to lie about it, when, in fact, it may be very important to another person. With your lie, you could be influencing something really very significant in that person's life.
I TOTALLY agree with Mark, that you are looking for all kinds of imaginable justifications for lieing Tabor, and I read your reply to Mark... "[As I can't respond to Mark Meijer, I'm posting this up here]"
Mark,
Regarding your comment: "Colleen, I think you made some good points there (although I've been honest with you before and you didn't seem to prefer it then)."
I've always enjoyed reading your comments and perspective Mark, which is why I encouraged you to continue with TED way back when you seemed frustrated with TED, and considering leaving the forum. I don't always agree with you, and I've been honest about that:>)
Tabor Williams