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Tabor Williams

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If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?

In the way that some people questions whether or not the ends justify the means, I'm wondering if you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?

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Thanks for all the participation and discussion everyone!

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    pat gilbert 100+

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    Nov 16 2012: Yes.

    Do you care if someone lies to you?

    When you lie you are deciding that lying is ok, I would lay you odds that at some time in the future someone will lie to you at you will not like it.

    E.G. when I was a kid I broke a bottle at the beach so rather than throw it away I decided to bury the bottle. A few minutes later I had forgotten about it and stepped on the bottle and cut my foot.

    The point is that you will become blind to the areas you DECIDE not to be responsible for, you are deciding that in your world that that is the way it is and you will be saddled with that decision from then on.

    The decision that is going to bite you is when you do something that you don't agree with.
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      Tabor Williams

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      Nov 16 2012: Does telling a lie mean that you are always blinding yourself to responsibility? In the video, Mr. Hancock talks about how lies are used in order to gain something. I also believe they are used to avoid pain, or as you say responsibility.

      Do you think that lies can ever be beneficial? Or simply based on a moral grounds, are they always wrong? While we may not always like the lies that we find to be untrue, I don't think all lies are the same.
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        pat gilbert 100+

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        Nov 16 2012: It is not about morality. Morality is what people agree is right and wrong. What I'm talking about is about what you think is right and wrong. I haven't seen the video but in general I don't see how it would be beneficial.
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          Tabor Williams

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          Nov 16 2012: Well the problem with my thinking, generally, is that I tend to think very black and white. The world is full of shades of grey, however, which is why I ask. Watch the video, it talks about how often people generally lie, and the reasons why they tend to lie, and how technology is affecting how and when we tell lies.
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        pat gilbert 100+

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        Nov 16 2012: Ok I watched it, seems plausible. Towards the end he said something along the lines of what I said.

        Here is the deal you can choose to be responsible for something or not. If you choose not to it is no problem but if you choose not to be responsible for something in order to hide something you have sequestered yourself and your ability and control and your understanding from that area you choose not to be a part of. If you want to deliver yourself to hell this is the sure fire way to do it. If you want to be happy just be honest and take responsibility. We all have committed transgressions but the only ones that are going to bite you are the ones that you don't agree with and then lie about it. This does not mean that if you are captured by the Nazis that you should tell them that you are Jew as you would then be doing something that you disagree with.
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          Tabor Williams

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          Nov 16 2012: The road to perdition is indeed paved with good intentions. Technology is definitely changing when, and how we lie.
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        pat gilbert 100+

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        Nov 16 2012: Yes it is but that is a different subject.

        The technology does not change the principles.

        Go back to 17:50 to the end that is what you need to pay attention to about this subject the only difference being he is talking about what you want your record to be and I'm talking about what you want your future to be.
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          Tabor Williams

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          Nov 16 2012: I realize they're different subjects. And I'm not saying that I lie all the time, I just think that it's an interesting question to ponder.Technology does not change principles, but it can change the way we interact with others.

          So then does lying create a future inherently worse than one where we tell the truth? If we tell the truth all the time, are we then living in the best of all realities possible?
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          Linda Taylor 50+

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          Nov 16 2012: Well said. It's not about the past, it's about the future.
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        pat gilbert 100+

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        Nov 16 2012: It is in my experience. Just go observe people who you know have little regard for the truth, are they happy or not? And the corollary observe someone that is happy, how do they regard the truth?
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          Tabor Williams

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          Nov 16 2012: Does lying signify a moral weakness then? The people who are close to me are very truthful, which is something I value. There's a difference between having little regard for the truth, and rarely not telling the truth. People who are happy and successful can lie their asses off. They're sociopaths, so it doesn't matter whether or not they lie if it advances them. Are there no circumstances where telling a lie could be beneficial?
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        pat gilbert 100+

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        Nov 16 2012: You are over thinking it.

        You mean those people who have to have things to be happy, those people who have to drink like fish to be happy? The people who will explode when you come to close to the truth they don't want to talk about?

        If you ever talk to a sociopath you will quickly discover that they are NOT happy actually they are insane.

        That just ain't the way it is...
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          Tabor Williams

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          Nov 17 2012: I think we're getting out of bonds haha. Taking anything to an extreme can serve your purpose. I think you're equating people who lie with those who are fundamentally unhappy, or those who are pathological liars. Can you not lie infrequently and be happy?
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        pat gilbert 100+

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        Nov 17 2012: Yes I am associating the people who lie with unhappiness. No doubt about it. You apparently disagree, my only words would be to look at people who lie a lot just look. Or don't that is all have to say about this.
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          Tabor Williams

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          Nov 17 2012: Just trying to engage in a friendly conversation. I don't think the world is so black and white. Thanks for all the comments though!
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        pat gilbert 100+

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        Nov 17 2012: Ok here are the shades of grey. Does your lie cause damage to you? Does your lie cause damage to others? Does your lie cause damage to mankind?

        If you lie about dumping toxin into the river that is much worse than telling someone you are on your way when you are not.

        If you convince everyone that mankind has to change everything because it has been proven that man is causing global warming that is worse than stealing someone apple

        Of course there are shades of grey.
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          Tabor Williams

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          Nov 17 2012: So if your lie doesn't cause damage to you, doesn't cause damage to others, and doesn't damage mankind, what inherently makes it bad?

          I don't think convincing people that climate change is real and is happening relates to telling lies, as it's scientifically proven.

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