- Tabor Williams
- Fair Oaks, CA
- United States
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If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?
In the way that some people questions whether or not the ends justify the means, I'm wondering if you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?
Closing Statement from Tabor Williams
Thanks for all the participation and discussion everyone!
Mark Meijer 100+
Pete: "You miserable little snake! You stole from my kin!"
Ulysses: "Who was fixin' to betray us."
Pete: "You didn't know that at the time."
Ulysses: "So I borrowed it until I did know."
Pete: "That don't make no sense!"
Ulysses: "Pete, it's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart."
(quoted from this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/ )
Tabor Williams
Random Chance 30+
If it is to be proven many years later, that isn't known and usually cannot be known.
It then is no different than the wishful thinking of those who so badly want their "personal experience" to be proof of God!
I can understand their desire for that, but they cannot prove it, so it isn't.
Therefore, a lie is a lie. Twisting to somehow verify some part of it that will lead another to believe it more readily as a truth, is still deceiving, misleading and lying. I don't get it. It seems that most must lie to themselves about this idea in order to believe a lie can become a truth. It can't. It's first moment is as a lie. That is its essence. That is what it was conceived for. To say it was for a future identity is a lie, or the same wishful thinking that the mentally ill, religious practice.
Trust doesn't make a lie a truth. That isn't a criteria. That is practicing deception, or for lack of a better word, lying.
One is lying to gain trust from another for something else that is withheld by, for lack of a better word, lying.
Tabor, you never said that you answered when asked if you are proficient at 'sucky' Microsoft Word.
So you didn't lie. If you said you were, you lied using your analogy.
You go home and learn it, now you know it should you be asked that question again.
But, you lied and it hasn't become a truth. The truth and the lie are not the same. If you think they are, then I think you are seriously mentally ill.
Tabor Williams
Random Chance 30+
I am sorry.
I really meant a more collective 'you' rather than you personally.
But, I sure said it that way.
I do believe there is a tremendous amount of mental illness present in society and with the Comorbidity Replication Survey indicating that it is now beginning at age eleven in the States, it validates its existence.
Also, most who become ill by eleven, on average, do not find or get care, diagnosis or treatment for 20 years. This means it has become, or does become "normal" to most, thus, most don't or can't recognize it.
Again, I apologize for my direct and hurtful comment.
Tabor Williams
Beth Boynton, RN, MS
richard moody jr 10+
In quantum mechanics the fraudulent experimental physcist, Emil Rupp, provided Einstein and others with lies that took a decade to unmask. Now quantum mechanics is generally regarded as one of the most well documented, predictive models every discovered---but, it started out with lies.
natasha nikulina 50+
" Dr Rupp had been ill since 1932 with emotional weakness( Psychastenia ) it was a matter of intrusion of dreamlike states into the area of his scientific activity."
Interesting ... What about his other scientific experiments , did any of those eventually prove to be not that ' fake ' ?
Maybe it was not a lie or was it ?
Thank you for bringing it here !
richard moody jr 10+
In the case of Eddington, Charles Lane Poor, Professor Emeritus in celestial mechanics from Columbia University, indicated that Eddington had thrown out over 85% of the data from Sobral, Brazil to get the numbers he wanted i.e. he threw out all the data differing from general relativity and kept only the data consistent with it!
What is sad is that Sir Stephen Hawking in his book: "A Brief History ot Time From the Big Bang to Black Holes" said on page 32 that the data "was shear luck...". Later in his homage to Einstein in Time's "Person of the Century" issue, Hawking stated that the eclipse data, "Confirmed in spectacular fashion..." general relativity. When I tried to contact Hawking through his press secretary to clarify his two conflicting statements, he never responded.
I knew that Rupp was mentally not all there but your research is an interesting side light. Thanks!
elizabeth muncey 10+
elizabeth muncey 10+
Mark Meijer 100+
elizabeth muncey 10+
Truth needs no reinforcement - really would hope so but own lived experience often to the contrary.
Bonus day, thank you for the feedback.
References: George Orwell '1984', Gilbert and Sullivan 'Utopia (Ltd).
Summer research: Cultural etiology and artefacts
Peer supervision always useful !!
elizabeth muncey 10+
Maths theory sum is always greater than it's constituent parts.
Psychology theory - Gestalt - a person is multi-faceted and more than just the sum of their lived experience, personal pain always to be acknowledged as part of person's 'shadow-side' due to consequences on adult persona.
Personal belief systems always to be evaluated as part of personal kit-bag of resilience in testing times. Person's own self-awareness enhanced by peer feedback as long as peer feedback valid and not just one shadow answering another.
Well aware of own personal shadow due to family constellation in real time. BTW humour 'cultural conditioning' - going to find appropriate research paper but discussed in 2008 in U.K. media.
Further reading: (sorry not great referencing but academic paper) 'Is Fat still a Feminist Issue? The Selling of Hope, Fear and Resistance at the Movies' , L. Friend and L. Westgate, Waikato Management School, University of Waikato.
Paper about resonance of cultural values in cultural products. Academic analysis of Shrek etc.
Not N.Z. as in Philip Schofield BTW N.Z. as in carefully, researched, debated hypothesis not flash and dash.
Random Chance 30+
That seems a lie in and of itself.
You cannot cover up the truth with the truth.
You have to use lies to do that. After awhile, a truth about a small part can be injected, thus giving the appearance of truth about the rest of what lies beneath it.
Lying to children is harmful and I believe the beginning of mental illness in humans, that are not from organic causes. (Not the children. The mental illnesses)
Later in life, the split caused by early years lying is and can be, manipulated by others.
However, not all lying is bad as it is to some degree an instinct of self-preservation and self-preservation is not wrong, immoral, harmful or out of proportion unless it grows and becomes out of proportion to its intended (for lack of a better word), usage.
I just don't see how a lie can become the truth unless one lies to oneself about this idea.
Deception (dishonesty, lying?) is the active misrepresentation of reality to another persons mind.
This leads to mental illness which in turn leads to insanity.
Self-deception is the active misrepresentation of reality to ones own mind.
The better one becomes at one, the better they become at the other, setting up a horrible cycle.
Extrapolate this into American culture and society and one can easily see how they reconfirm and revalidate their mental instability and insanity to one another to the degree they cannot spot it any longer in their culture and society but continue to perpetrate among themselves, their children and the rest of the world.
Tabor Williams
Not exactly the best example, but yeah.
Scott Armstrong 50+
it all comes down to the ability to verify a statement.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
You had an interesting exchange below with Pat Gilbert where you press the question: "Do you think that lies can ever be beneficial?" You also touch questions of improving reality and happiness: "So then does lying create a future inherently worse than one where we tell the truth?"..."I think you're equating people who lie with those who are fundamentally unhappy, or those who are pathological liars."
Here is my philosophical take on it. I agree with Pat. Lying has to do with happiness. We all perceive reality (what is). We also have desires what the reality should be (what ought). We are happy when our "what is" matches our "what ought" - when reality matches our desires. When it does not, we are unhappy. People deal with it in different ways. Some strive to change reality - work hard, change personalities of others, get things, etc. This rarely leads to happiness. Striving for things becomes our nature, and it's never enough. Some people misrepresent reality to themselves and to others (lie). I think, this dissonance between desires and reality is at the root of lying. Pat's comparison to taking drugs is quite appropriate. Lying about reality may create only an illusion of happiness with rude awakening.
The third way to happiness advocated by most religions is to be content with what we have and have faith that tomorrow we will have enough to survive. It's about accepting the reality and people "as is", without moral judgments. It's also about accepting ourselves "as is", without desires to be someone else. This way, we won't have the need to lie - enhance breasts and penises, cheat, steal or otherwise try to make ourselves happier than we are.
Some people say that such faith is self-deception. I don't see it that way. To answer your question, when we "lie" about our attitudes, these "lies" become true. To me, that's totally acceptable. E.g. I may lie to myself that I "love my enemies" and do good things to them.
Tabor Williams
I don't think that honesty and happiness are necessarily the same, but they do go hand in hand in most cases.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
"We can't all, and some of us don't" -- Eeyore :-)
I wouldn't say, honesty and happiness are the same. I believe, adequate perception of reality is essential for happiness and many other things.
Tabor Williams
Jean-Charles Longuet
There is a wonderful talk about "faking it until you become it". I do not want to spoil it, but it show how complex our representation of things is. And how we can manipulate ourself to reduce dissonance.
http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are.html
Enjoy.
Tabor Williams
I am indeed looking for justifications for lying, because I'm a writer. I'm interested in what makes people tick, and what makes people act the way they act. I've been trying to play devil's advocate, because I truly am interested in people's thoughts on honesty, and lying.
Honesty about someone's shirt is not pathetic. You're looking at in the wrong way. Absolute truth means being truthful in all instances. It doesn't pit one truth against another on a scale. In the same way that some people believe that all sins are equal. Do I personally believe that? No. But I'd like to understand why people hold the views that they do.
Thanks for contributing! :)
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
Re: "Honesty about someone's shirt is not pathetic." There is no such thing as honesty or lying about our attitudes, tastes, preferences, and emotions. They change on a whim. I can make them true or false simply by moving a few mimic muscles.
I know a person who always answers the question "How are you doing?" - "The best day of my life!" When I asked him why he always says so, he explained that he used to be grumpy, and this is his way to be happier. And, you know what? This answer made me happier too. Is it a lie?
Some 10 years ago, my wife and I went for a walk downtown. She wore an outfit that didn't seem to me very appropriate. I told her that I'm not very comfortable with it, but not more than that. She still wore it. To my surprise, several random people came up to us in the street to compliment her on her dress - in a good way. Some compliments came from women. Since then I trust her taste more than my own. Honesty about someone's shirt IS pathetic and is not worth much.
Mark Meijer 100+
Also, why would you say that you can't pit one truth against another on a scale, but you can pit one sin against another on a scale? I happen to agree about the truth thing, truth is truth and is not a matter of degree. But that has nothing to do with words or opinions. In the absolute sense, no words are true, and opinions about people's shirts or anything else are entirely irrelevant.
So in the absolute sense, nothing is a matter of degree, neither truth nor sin. And actually there is no sin, except perhaps as another word for untruth, and in the absolute sense, all untruth is equally untrue. If you want to put either truth or sin on a scale, you're by definition out of the absolute (and thereby out of truth) and into the relative. There you can talk about degrees of sin and about so-called "true" statements or opinions. Just don't confuse that with absolute truth, they have nothing in common.
Tabor Williams
If you're taking the approach that truth comes from words, obviously an opinion on someone's shirt is irrelevant.
richard moody jr 10+
Colleen Steen 500+
"If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth...", it matters to YOU, because YOU have to live with the consequence of the act of lying. I agree with TED Lover that "Lies have their consequences in the life of the liars", and that idea seems to be reinforced with many insightful comments on this thread.
Very rarely, do people tell one little lie, because once there is a lie, there is a need to keep covering up that lie, so it generally expands. When people lie, they are telling us something about themselves, and as we get to KNOW that people lie, which we eventually do, we learn not to trust that person. So, one who lies, is creating consequences for him/herself. When one lies, it also gets very confusing for the lier....you have to remember all the time what you told each individual person to maintain a coverup for the lie.
Oliver Murray just posted information regarding "The five primary forms of deception..."
Lies, Equivocations, Concealments, Exaggerations, Understatements.
These forms, may at times, have a very fine line between one and the other. The question we can ask ourselves, is what are the consequenses to myself and others with the information I choose to provide....or not. As Linda writes, a lie may "forever change the balance of trust". Is that a consequence we want? What is the point in even taking that chance?
Tabor Williams
I don't know why people take the chance of lying given what's at stake for most of their relationships.
Colleen Steen 500+
You say you recognize that lies have consequences in the liars lives....BUT...sometimes you're sparing someone's feelings. Lying does NOT spare anyone's feelings but your own. Would you like it if people lied to you to spare your feelings? Or would you prefer that people are truthful to you? Personally, I prefer that people are honest with me. As a person with the potential to lie (it's always a choice), I prefer NOT to keep spinning webs in my own life experience.
I suggest that people take the chance of lying, because they want to take care of themselves in the moment and they are not considering the consequences.
Tabor Williams
I do prefer people be honest with me, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking everyone in my life is 100% honest with me, and has never spared my feelings.
Mark Meijer 100+
Anyway, Tabor, whether we spare other people's feelings or not, there's no way around the fact that we do so for self-centered reasons. People generally don't go out of their way to spare anyone's feelings except for a few others they feel in close enough relation to.
More often than not they go out of their way to hurt other people's feelings. Often even those close to themselves, depending on their whim. Either way it's always about the one doing the hurting or the sparing, not about the one getting hurt or being spared. The real lies are not in what we tell others, but in what we tell ourselves.
Despite the vast majority of the comments in these conversations, honesty not about something so pathetic as whether or not you like someone's shirt. It's in a different league altogether.
Tabor, you are clearly looking for all kinds of imaginable justifications for lieing. It's not a matter of whether it's right or wrong, as far as I'm concerned, it's a matter of being completely honest with oneself. For starters, you might want to ask yourself why you are looking for justification.
And don't try to come up with an answer, like a hypothesis. Instead stop taking your own stories at face value for a change, and start observing what actually motivates you to lie throughout the days and weeks of your regular life, why you are presenting yourself to others the way you do in each moment. Assuming you are really interested in questions of truth and lies, that is. Nobody else can tell you why you do what you do and what it matters to you.
Colleen Steen 500+
You ask..."If someone asks you a mundane question like what do you think of X? when you know it is something they're into, how is it wrong to tell them you like it (thinking in terms of how it will work/be for them). Do you think absolute truth is required to be considered an honest person? What if they are considering the consequences, and decide that the upside outweighs the downside?"
First of all, I'm not judging anyone to be "right" or "wrong". The discussion question is..."If you tell a lie and it becomes the truth, does it matter that you once lied?" I have addressed your question.
To address your recent question...
If a person is really into something and they are considering the consequences to make a decision, it may NOT be a "mundane question", as you say, so why not tell the truth? As I said in another comment..."What is the "big lie", and what is the "little mundane lie" may not be the same for everyone." You may be judging something to be insignificant, so you may think it's ok to lie about it, when, in fact, it may be very important to another person. With your lie, you could be influencing something really very significant in that person's life.
I TOTALLY agree with Mark, that you are looking for all kinds of imaginable justifications for lieing Tabor, and I read your reply to Mark... "[As I can't respond to Mark Meijer, I'm posting this up here]"
Mark,
Regarding your comment: "Colleen, I think you made some good points there (although I've been honest with you before and you didn't seem to prefer it then)."
I've always enjoyed reading your comments and perspective Mark, which is why I encouraged you to continue with TED way back when you seemed frustrated with TED, and considering leaving the forum. I don't always agree with you, and I've been honest about that:>)
Tabor Williams
Gail . 50+
Lies have their consequences in the life of the liars.
An opinion is not a lie unless you are intentionally (willfully) ignorant. Then it is as good as a lie and you can't avoid consequences.
Tabor Williams
Jean-Charles Longuet
December is not that far... Go outside and start telling all children that Santa Klaus does not exist :)
Stop being polite... Go outside and tell overweight people that they are.
Etc... I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but things are not that straightforward.
Colleen Steen 500+
Tabor already told us on this thread that HE is the "devil's advocate".
Which one of you is the REAL "devil's advocate"......don't lie!!! :>)
Jean-Charles Longuet
Now, you cannot make the lie vanish, but "does it matter" is another point. You can consider the outcome of the lie and fell that things are better now than if you had not told it, but that's a strict act-utilitarian point of view. If you are more sensitive to the moral wrongness that to the issue, you'll regret it forever. That said, if you lied, that mean that you allowed it to yourself and you're not in this case...
"You should never lie, except on exceptions." is the paradox for most of us...
Tabor Williams
Jean-Charles Longuet
- the act of lying
- the consequences of your lie.
The act by itself cannot be undone. You decided to deceive someone, and that decision was yours. So that will stay as a fact in your mind.
Now, the consequences are something else : there may be good consequences that you expected and morally compensate your lie (if you lied to avoid someone's death, I consider it as perfectly ok in my moral system). There may be other consequences like self-interest, that are less morally eligible to compensate the lie. There may be unexpected consequences that you may feel very responsible for because your lie (strangely, we are less guilty about the consequences of speaking the truth).
So to sum up : yes, the only moment that matters is when you tell the lie. After that, it's all about how you can handle it...
By the way, there is a debate regarding lies where you may find some matter too :
http://www.ted.com/conversations/14890/telling_the_truth_are_there_l.html
Feyisayo Anjorin 50+
Tabor Williams
Feyisayo Anjorin 50+
An intention to misrepresent facts is not good socially, morally or logically.
Tabor Williams
Feyisayo Anjorin 50+
An intention to misrepresent facts is not good socially, morally or logically.
Linda Taylor 50+
If someone lies to me, it forever changes the balance of trust. It will always effect what I say and how I treat them in the future. I will pass them over for opportunities and I will not work with them outside of the minimum necessary. If they happen to be family it works the same. I won't invite them so they do not have to lie and I will edit what I say to them.
I remember learning that people who lie, do so for only two reasons. One, they lie for themselves. Two, they lie for others. For me, whether selfish or selfless, lying is never worth it.
Tabor Williams
Trust is very important to me as well, so I empathize with your thoughts in the second paragraph of your comment.
Linda Taylor 50+
Lying is intentionally delivering false information. Whatever the reason.
Lying is usually a cheap cop-out wielded by cheap people that want to avoid responsibility. Politicians for instance...
Tabor Williams
Jean-Charles Longuet
So I have a wider definition of lie that "telling a falsehood". I include in lies all informations provided with the intent to deceive, what Linda calls "deceptive things".
That's because "information" have a variety of forms. Imagine you're in conversation with several people and someone tells a lie : you know it is one. If you stay silent, are you lying too ? What if you nod ? If you mutter a "Mmm" acknowledgment ? If you say "Yes" ?
My opinion is that it is not worth trying to define a thin line between lies and deception.
As Linda pointed out, deception is everywhere in minor forms : appearance, advertising, etc. We must simply keep in mind that our perception can be influenced in many ways, that we ourself are biased for a lot of reasons, and live with it.
Oliver Murray
Wiki states "The five primary forms of deception are:[citation needed]
Lies: making up information or giving information that is the opposite or very different from the truth.
Equivocations: making an indirect, ambiguous, or contradictory statement.
Concealments: omitting information that is important or relevant to the given context, or engaging in behavior that helps hide relevant information.
Exaggerations: overstatement or stretching the truth to a degree.
Understatements: minimization or downplaying aspects of the truth.[1]"
So here a lie is a sub-class of deception where you actively invent information that is untrue, while concealment has the same ends it doesnt rely on the creation of an untruth in the mind of the deceiver, but in the deceiver providing true information in a way that he knows the receiver will interpret in such a way that they will create the untrue scenario on their own.
Dictionary.com and Wicktionary do however include any attempt to convey a false impression. If you come at it from a pure communication perspective, it begins to fall back into my original assumption.
Consider this scenario. The liar has a certain untrue idea he wants to pass on to a receiver. The liar also is aware and adept at rhetoric, the study of the effective use of language. If the liar knows that his untrue idea is more likely to be transferred to the mind of the receiver through omission rather than specifically expressing his untrue idea, doesnt that then become the active (and in a way more intelligent and effective) communication of a untrue idea?
How then is communicating a falsehood different from telling a falsehood?
Anyone able to clear this up for me?
Linda Taylor 50+
For example. I never told my kids there was a Santa. I just did not correct the impression. I played along with their belief because sometimes magic is important for young children in a scary world.
So I never said there was a Santa and they had to behave or not get presents. I never tried to control them or thier behavior with a lie. But their world had a little magic and sparkle for a time. Then I had to live through the whole consumer-greed stage but they made it through that one too. Now they are beginning to understand that it's not about the getting, but it's about the giving.
So you see, if I would have lied, when they figured it out, they would have blamed me, and rightly so. AND more importantly, that balance of trust would have been broken.
Now they are older and see the big picture. There is no anger or blame or broken trust.
That's the difference.
@ Jean-Charles
If someone lies in front of me I always call them out. Maybe not in front of everyone depending on the situation. But I will not tolerate that type of environment.
I truly believe we teach people how to treat us. If they feel it is alright to lie to me that would be my fault if I did not correct it.
Tabor Williams
Yet I do think we all want to be the change we'd like to see in the world.
Colleen Steen 500+
We "teach" people, or demonstrate to people, all the time how we want to be treated by accepting, or not accepting certain behaviors. It is not our "fault" when others behave inappropriately, and in my perception, it becomes my responsibility for myself to be clear about what I will accept.....or not. We cannot "make" anyone stop lying. We can, however make it very clear to others what we will and will not accept....like you say...have a conversation with them....let them know that lying is not acceptable. If we are not clear in ourselves about lying....how, why, when, with whom, for what reason... then we cannot be clear with others. What is the "big lie", and what is the "little mundane lie" may not be the same for everyone.
Daniel Anderson-Luxford
Linda Taylor 50+
The whole Nazi example has been used to justify the philosophical concept of utility. It helps people who feel bad about lying feel better about lying.
Lying is never necessary.
Tabor Williams
Linda Taylor 50+
Sorry but my ego is just not that fragile. Awards are just that. They are awarded to someone from someone else. If my friend received the award I would be happy for them. If I knew it was supposed to be for me, I would not divulge that information. I would keep that information to myself and rejoice with my friend. I would not need to have the award.
I am not making up false information and I am not trying to manipulate the situation. Stuff like that can bring bad "ju ju." I would not be able to live with overturning the award and it would bother me. So I would really be happy for my friend.
I never said lies were not justifiable. Indeed many people do. They are just not justifiable to me.
Daniel Anderson-Luxford
Considering your personal preference to avoid lying, would you avoid telling your children that Santa exists?
Linda Taylor 50+
I've been doing this several decades now. It is a very effective tactic.
When my kids were old enough to directly question me about Santa, I was truthful. But they were well into grade school by then.
Colleen Steen 500+
Good point...when someone asks a question, we are not obligated to answer. I also suggest that we have the ability to re-direct information.
My mom always used to say that Santa was a "feeling"...a story... and we could carry that feeling with us every day of the year. At Christmas time, as children, we still enjoyed the image and the story of santa, we still got the presents from santa under the tree, and could enjoy the anticipation and joy of the holiday, and I believed, as my mom said, that it is a feeling that we can have throughout the year. She was telling the truth, and we could still enjoy everything about santa that everyone else enjoyed:>)
This is a story that my brothers, now in their 70s and 80s still talk about because apparently for them, it was a good lesson.
A couple of them, with a bunch of other young kids, stole some apples from an orchard. Apparently, the owner saw them taking the apples, and could identify my brothers, and not the rest of the group. The police came to our home and demanded that they talk with my brothers, because they wanted the names of the other kids that were involved. My mom told the police that she would take care of punishing "her boys", and they needed to do their job and find out for themselves who else was involved. She could have said "her boys" didn't do it, she could have argued with the police, etc., but she was absolutely truthful, and simply advised the police to do their job and find out for themselves who else was involved. She prevented "her boys" from having to tell on their friends, which she probably knew they would not do...thereby causing themselves more trouble with the police. It's really a silly little story about how we can be totally honest, and sometimes redirect a situation in a more productive way. "Her boys" were punished because they took something that did not belong to them. She made it clear that stealing was not ok AND she did not force them to incriminate their buddies.
pat gilbert 50+
Do you care if someone lies to you?
When you lie you are deciding that lying is ok, I would lay you odds that at some time in the future someone will lie to you at you will not like it.
E.G. when I was a kid I broke a bottle at the beach so rather than throw it away I decided to bury the bottle. A few minutes later I had forgotten about it and stepped on the bottle and cut my foot.
The point is that you will become blind to the areas you DECIDE not to be responsible for, you are deciding that in your world that that is the way it is and you will be saddled with that decision from then on.
The decision that is going to bite you is when you do something that you don't agree with.
Tabor Williams
Do you think that lies can ever be beneficial? Or simply based on a moral grounds, are they always wrong? While we may not always like the lies that we find to be untrue, I don't think all lies are the same.
pat gilbert 50+
Tabor Williams
pat gilbert 50+
Here is the deal you can choose to be responsible for something or not. If you choose not to it is no problem but if you choose not to be responsible for something in order to hide something you have sequestered yourself and your ability and control and your understanding from that area you choose not to be a part of. If you want to deliver yourself to hell this is the sure fire way to do it. If you want to be happy just be honest and take responsibility. We all have committed transgressions but the only ones that are going to bite you are the ones that you don't agree with and then lie about it. This does not mean that if you are captured by the Nazis that you should tell them that you are Jew as you would then be doing something that you disagree with.
Tabor Williams
pat gilbert 50+
The technology does not change the principles.
Go back to 17:50 to the end that is what you need to pay attention to about this subject the only difference being he is talking about what you want your record to be and I'm talking about what you want your future to be.
Tabor Williams
So then does lying create a future inherently worse than one where we tell the truth? If we tell the truth all the time, are we then living in the best of all realities possible?
Linda Taylor 50+
pat gilbert 50+
Tabor Williams
pat gilbert 50+
You mean those people who have to have things to be happy, those people who have to drink like fish to be happy? The people who will explode when you come to close to the truth they don't want to talk about?
If you ever talk to a sociopath you will quickly discover that they are NOT happy actually they are insane.
That just ain't the way it is...
Tabor Williams
pat gilbert 50+
Tabor Williams
pat gilbert 50+
If you lie about dumping toxin into the river that is much worse than telling someone you are on your way when you are not.
If you convince everyone that mankind has to change everything because it has been proven that man is causing global warming that is worse than stealing someone apple
Of course there are shades of grey.
Tabor Williams
I don't think convincing people that climate change is real and is happening relates to telling lies, as it's scientifically proven.