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Robert Winner


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Filings from 15 states to secede from the United states

Folks from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States and one person from North Dakota has filed for New York state to secede. Petitions required 25,000 signatures and are then forwarded to the President for consideration.

I would hope that this is mostly symbolic but it does show that there are some hard feelings about the direction the US has taken.

One of the questions involved with the petitions is that if you signed it will you be on a federal watch list as a subversive. Certainly a valid question. Time will tell.

Another question is, this is a pretty strong hint that not everyone is happy ... will the message be heard?

What do you think of this jesture.


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    Nov 15 2012: Bob,

    I did not vote, and i am not a big fan of the government of Obama, but i was also not a fan of the Romney proposal, at all.

    I remember many republicans who thought they had the election in their pocket, calling out to democrats to "behave as adults" after the election and be "good losers".

    I see these petitions as symbolic but i also see most of them as a sour reaction of people who have a hard time accepting disagreement with their worldview.

    My own worldview is quite different from both democrat and republican, but i would never consider filing a petition to secede because the election was won by someone who don't represent exactly my worldview.

    But i think people are both a bit lazy and a bit arrogant. It is easier to focus on the things that we disagree on, and waste time there, than it is to find common ground and walk together. People see it as a betrayal to even entertain the idea of working together with their political foes. IT is no wonder the political system is where it is today

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      Nov 15 2012: Andres, You make valid points. As an Independent I try to see both sides and cancel out the radical from both (the same can be said for TED). I think there is some real fears such as the economy, the failure of the administration to revitalize the workforce, and what many consider runaway spending.

      Just as a aside have you ever looked at the national debit clock? It has a column on the right side that says the official unemployment number is: and just below that is the actual unemployment number is: Why woud we have two numbers .... we are fed political statements and conflicting facts all the time from all sides.

      It is hard to face the minority 95% of TED users that are very liberal. To be honest sometimes I just tweek their noses for the fun of it. I will continue to do my own fact checking and still listen to valid input.

      Thanks for your reply. Bob.
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        Nov 16 2012: I think many people share these concerns and are not crazy about either party or any current or recent slate of candidates.
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          Nov 18 2012: Sorry Robert I do understand that the Government does think in terms of trillions from an outsiders outlook though the amounts that are spent to run in an Presidential Campaign
          looks like it could equal the national debt of a couple of small African countries.

          Also being an outsider and having been in the US and seeing some of the problems it faces an outsider can sometimes question where priorities lie.

          If the PACs believe so passionately about helping the economy and addressing some of the outstanding issues why could they not show the people they are campaigning too, some restraint. EG: The PAC's agreeing to capped election funding (wishful thinking I know but ..........)

          Sitting down with a stiff scotch before looking
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        Nov 17 2012: Just a hypothetical question for you how much better would the US economy of been if all the money spent on campaigning that includes all candidates had actually been put back into the economy to building jobs and education????

        Should Candidates be restricted in their campaign budgets???

        Just a thought when you look at the economy and you look at what these campaigns costs if those campaign funds been redirected would of they of made a difference if injected into most needed areas of funding????
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          Nov 18 2012: Morgan, Your first question is hard to determine ... In a government that thinks in trillions the amount spent is a drop in the bucket. Education is an interesting study. The Dept of Ed has one mission .. to set educational policy. This includes a staff of over 5,000. Before Carter it was a part of Health, Education, and Welfare. Carter made it a Cabnet post with a annual budget of 19.4 Billion dollars. That should be some policy statement. So what was spent in the election by both sides would be one eigth of the Department of Education budget. The budget defecit is 16 Trillion and climbing. 2 Billion would not cover the intrest due. The government does not creat jobs corporations and investors do so that would not help the economy. If the government creates a job it is at the expense of the people. The bigger the government the more of your money it takes to support it.

          I do not understand PACs and how they work. A lawyer on a news show said that they can write a check to themselves for what is left in the PAC and it would never show up under the existing laws and would essentially never have existed. There is much documentation that shows the accountability is shakey and in many donors are hidden.

          The sad truth is that money never gets to where it is needed. Red Cross CEO makes $951,957, United Way $675,000, UNICEF $1,900,000 .... All of government money also goes to staff and operations.

          Campaigns are ran by lawyers and accountants ... normally not associated with honesty ... so what ever man puts limits on they would find a way to get around it. McCain Goldfine Act spawned super PACs. Politics have absolutely .. IMO .. nothing to do with the people. Everything to do with money, power, paybacks, and the most important EGO.

          If you made a ledger and just looked at numbers (no politics) many minds would change.

          Look at the national debit clock. Sit down first.

          Thanks for the reply. Bob.

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