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Filings from 15 states to secede from the United states
Folks from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States and one person from North Dakota has filed for New York state to secede. Petitions required 25,000 signatures and are then forwarded to the President for consideration.
I would hope that this is mostly symbolic but it does show that there are some hard feelings about the direction the US has taken.
One of the questions involved with the petitions is that if you signed it will you be on a federal watch list as a subversive. Certainly a valid question. Time will tell.
Another question is, this is a pretty strong hint that not everyone is happy ... will the message be heard?
What do you think of this jesture.
Gail . 50+
If my state were to secede, I would move sooner rather than later. (I intend to move in the future).
The idea of secession by the states wanting secession is not well thought out. How will these new sovereign nation states - or even a new confederation of seceded nations survive financially? Those states applying for secession receive far more in taxes than they have paid in. For example, New York gets back 7 cents on each dollar paid to the fed, whereas Alaska gets back $6.00. Alaska is an extreme example, but all of the states with secession petitions receive more than they put in.
After factoring in that little item, now start removing all military and government contracts and government-supported businesses from the seceded areas and unemployment will bring greater havoc to their economies.
But this is a choice that the people of the states must make. If I believe in the Constitution - as intended by the ratifiers - and as proven through the "articles of ratification" (of that constitution) by the several states - then I have no right to object.
Still - on point with your question - the idea is just a few children in adult bodies throwing a tantrum. If they would actually secede, they would make it much easier for the non-seceding states. I wish they would.
Barry Palmer 50+
Thirty years ago these petitions might have gotten a paragraph or two on page twenty of the local newspaper, if they were mentioned at all.
I do agree with Edward Long that we are more polarized now than I have ever experienced. I hope that this is not an effect of the internet and other new technologies. There are people who benefit from this polarization and they are using every tool available to promote it.
Robert Winner 50+
So your probally right Barry they are not dissatisfied it is about the power of the internet.
Watch the lectures of Yuri Bezmenoz on you tube and run the checklist .... Check and Mate
Thanks for the reply. Bob.
Ezra Scarlet
Morgan Barnes
What is that the ultimate hissy fit from a load of cashed up business types who think they could of influenced the Government because they threw a large amount of cash to the campaign.
If a state secedes itself from the State or USA or Union or whatever you call it, why should that State expect any hands out from the Government it has seceded from??
Your on your own chum, you did not want to be part of the country like the rest of us so You lose your federal funding and benefits and yes your citizenship as well. Oh also don't expect disaster relief when a Tornado rips through your State or Floods or Hurricanes like Sandy and Katrina. Better ask yourself can you support yourselves????? Can you provide a decent education for children??? Can you support your poor and retired, How do you pay for Veterans pensions can you provide your people with decent health care????
I'm gathering the answer is no Why is it some people never grow up and make it all about them not the people they represent???
Robert Winner 50+
If that is true then the message is as much to Congress as it is to the Administration to get their stuff into one pair of pantyhose, put on their big boy pants, and get with the recovery.
I have been wrong before (priors) so this may not be true. Just a guess.
Thanks for the reply. Bob.
By the way what is the structure in the picture logo by your name?
Morgan Barnes
These people are luckier than in a lot in other countries, if they don't like the way the country is being run they are free to leave until maybe a Government they like is voted in.
The other thing it comes down to, is, it just that they are not happy with the direction or are there more underlying factions with racial, left wing political views or something more sinister ??
To quote your own President Abraham Lincoln "You can't please all the people all the time"
Symbolic or not it is still basically a temper tantrum thrown by a group or even individuals who sit there and they claim how much they love their country but are happy to put in a petition to secede because things are not going the way they would wish it to.
They should remember that the only reason they can do it in the first place is because of the First Amendment "Freedom of speech"
Hissy Fit and double standards.
Oh and the picture is the Chateau de' Chenonceau in the Loire Valley it was known for "the Ladies of the Manor" Catherine Medici Joan of Arc Henry II mistress Dianne De Poitiers expanded the Chateau to span the river,.
Barry Palmer 50+
In USA poitics, it is a routine means of getting attention.
It seems to work; it caught our attention.
peter lindsay 30+
Morgan Barnes
Andres Aullet 10+
I did not vote, and i am not a big fan of the government of Obama, but i was also not a fan of the Romney proposal, at all.
I remember many republicans who thought they had the election in their pocket, calling out to democrats to "behave as adults" after the election and be "good losers".
I see these petitions as symbolic but i also see most of them as a sour reaction of people who have a hard time accepting disagreement with their worldview.
My own worldview is quite different from both democrat and republican, but i would never consider filing a petition to secede because the election was won by someone who don't represent exactly my worldview.
But i think people are both a bit lazy and a bit arrogant. It is easier to focus on the things that we disagree on, and waste time there, than it is to find common ground and walk together. People see it as a betrayal to even entertain the idea of working together with their political foes. IT is no wonder the political system is where it is today
cheers
Robert Winner 50+
Just as a aside have you ever looked at the national debit clock? It has a column on the right side that says the official unemployment number is: and just below that is the actual unemployment number is: Why woud we have two numbers .... we are fed political statements and conflicting facts all the time from all sides.
It is hard to face the minority 95% of TED users that are very liberal. To be honest sometimes I just tweek their noses for the fun of it. I will continue to do my own fact checking and still listen to valid input.
Thanks for your reply. Bob.
Fritzie Reisner 100+
Morgan Barnes
looks like it could equal the national debt of a couple of small African countries.
Also being an outsider and having been in the US and seeing some of the problems it faces an outsider can sometimes question where priorities lie.
If the PACs believe so passionately about helping the economy and addressing some of the outstanding issues why could they not show the people they are campaigning too, some restraint. EG: The PAC's agreeing to capped election funding (wishful thinking I know but ..........)
Sitting down with a stiff scotch before looking
Morgan Barnes
Should Candidates be restricted in their campaign budgets???
Just a thought when you look at the economy and you look at what these campaigns costs if those campaign funds been redirected would of they of made a difference if injected into most needed areas of funding????
Robert Winner 50+
I do not understand PACs and how they work. A lawyer on a news show said that they can write a check to themselves for what is left in the PAC and it would never show up under the existing laws and would essentially never have existed. There is much documentation that shows the accountability is shakey and in many donors are hidden.
The sad truth is that money never gets to where it is needed. Red Cross CEO makes $951,957, United Way $675,000, UNICEF $1,900,000 .... All of government money also goes to staff and operations.
Campaigns are ran by lawyers and accountants ... normally not associated with honesty ... so what ever man puts limits on they would find a way to get around it. McCain Goldfine Act spawned super PACs. Politics have absolutely .. IMO .. nothing to do with the people. Everything to do with money, power, paybacks, and the most important EGO.
If you made a ledger and just looked at numbers (no politics) many minds would change.
Look at the national debit clock. Sit down first.
Thanks for the reply. Bob.
edward long 100+
"W.H. Petition Calls for Stripping Citizenship Of Anyone Signing Secession Petition A White House petition gathering force calls for citizenship to be stripped and exile for anyone who signs a petition in favor of a state's secession."-- Weekly Standard
Evan Steiner
On a side note, why do you include Hussein when refering to Barak Obama?
edward long 100+
Evan Steiner
I questioned the usage because I usually see it from people trying to highlight his different heritage in an attempt to stir up fear people may have about differences. I’ve found your responses to rise above that kind of pettiness so I thought I’d see if there was another reason, and there was. The “W” was used to distinguish between the two Bushes and not in the divisive way Hussein has been used.
Now, whether the President is responsible for everything that happens is another can of worms altogether.
edward long 100+
Kitty Hawk
You have to admit that it's rather tedious to say "Barak Hussein Obama" when "Obama" or even "O" would suffice. :D
Robert Winner 50+
The problem I have is that this is a real possibility and that I could not dismiss it as rumor and took the time to see if it was real. That in itself is a shame. That I have lost that much faith in the federal government to think that this is possible speaks for itself.
Further that 35 states now are involved in the petition is a sign that the union is again divided. In the 2008 election we were told that this is a great decision and that Obamas election would serve as the great uniter .... that opinion may need further consideration.
Thanks for the reply. Bob.
edward long 100+
edward long 100+
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html
Kitty Hawk
Evan Steiner
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/strip-citizenship-everyone-who-signed-petition-secede-and-exile-them/ZbMjcwPf
edward long 100+
Kitty Hawk
Meh, you're probably right about bigger fish...
I must say I that I prefer "Mr." though!
Random Chance 30+
But, comment I shall.
I do think the statement, "..... if you signed it will you be on a federal watch list as a subversive. Certainly a valid question,".......is anything but a valid question.
A valid question or perhaps more of a comment should be, "How dare they or anyone else make a list of whom they determine will be falsely labeled, so-called subversives." And, be allowed to get away with it.
It is a direct slap in the faces of all American'ts , that they are the ones who will be labeled as such by those who have been steadily taking away all their freedoms as they termite the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
I am amazed at how easily the acceptance of such action by those who are supposed to work for the people, represent the people and do the people's bidding, is just allowed to go by, as though it isn't important. It is the only thing.
As the U.S. government works to destroy the internet, because it is a powerful tool for and of freedom (the sole reason they do so), there are those who work solely to find new ways, means, methods and places to dodge, outrun, hide, slip by, aid anonymity and safe-guard privacy. Things once upon a time, done by the Constitution.
They also don't focus on stopping what is being done as they/you/all of u.s, will run out of time, places, dodges, anonymity and rights. That's what voters are supposed to do but voting doesn't work, just as your politicians do not work for you. You are the enemy and you are not in reality, an enemy.
Wanting to secede is trying one of the last places to run to to stop or escape what is happening in your country and you continually focus on the wrong things.
Any of you aware of Putin's attempt to make virtually anyone into a traitor?
For those in the Police States, check:
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/05/louisiana_is_the_worlds_prison.html
Keep laughing
Barry Palmer 50+
I see these petitions as just business as usual for the USA. During the Bush administration my wife and I seriously talked about moving to Canada.
I find it interesting that the USA government is promoting a UN process for minority populations to gain independence from their home country. I wonder if the government's position will change If some USA citizens start using that process.
edward long 100+
pat gilbert 50+
By the way from what I hear this is the sort of talk they censor in China on the internet.
Colleen Steen 500+
I LOVE that you are using Obama's image in your profile photo...sends the message that he is truly representing you:>)
pat gilbert 50+
Fritzie Reisner 100+
I don't think filing petitions to secede is a great use of energy.
Lawren Jones 10+
edward long 100+
Colleen Steen 500+
Of course there are some "hard feelings" ...you have expressed YOUR hard feelings several times here on TED. When the candidate of choice does not win an election, there are often hard feelings on the part of those who wanted something different. Speculation is that this idea is indeed a symbolic action by a few disgruntled people, and I agree with that perspective. I agree with Krisztián, in that the idea is created by a very small minority, and while it is important to listen to all sides of an issue, it is kind of silly to get our knickers in a knot about it.....don't you think?
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Colleen Steen 500+
Jedrek Stepien 10+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
george lockwood 20+
don't Understand Me. Prometheans or so rare - There is not a great deal of reationality out there. Someone gave us logic and the scientific method. That's a start.