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Luis Javier López Arredondo

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Where do thoughts come from?

Where do thoughts come from?
A thought active connections in the brain or vice versa?
If I control my thoughts, do I control my brain connections?
Consciously I do not control my brain... Are my thoughts random emanating of pure subconscious?
Do I really control my thoughts?

Topics: mind philosophy
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    Nov 23 2012: This is a facinating idea for me as well. It is not tangible, measurable, hence it has no unit of measurement and a handful of unproven theories. Yet :thought: is paramount to our existence. My expereinces have lead me to understand that our thoughts come from our Consciousness and it is influenced by several aspects including our ability to choose and our choice of reaction to real events in our lives. I would say you do manage and influence your thoughts rather than "control". But nevertheless your thoughts controls you, your choices, behaviours, actions and reactions that builds your core personality.
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      Nov 23 2012: Hi Maaher,

      It is no longer unproven theory.

      Thoughts are electro-chemical signals which travel along the topology of synapses moderated by neurons.

      THe illusive nature of thoughts is that they are adaptive. THe very topology upon which these signals travel changes. And this is no longer a mystery either. THe synaptic topology is governed by survival of teh animal.

      Consciusness is also no longer a mystery. It is the coupling of the body to the brain which gives rise to an area of focus - all of which is defined by the needs of the body and the integration of senses with body, memory and imagination.

      Imagination is no longer a mystery - it is the conduct of simulations using body-maps which are applied to causal maps stored in what we call "world view".

      Dreams are no longer a mystery. THey are mental signal disconnected from teh body regulation during a thing huamsn call "sleep. We require sleep for 2 reasons - 1. rest. 2. to conduct unfocussd simulations in order to pre-view all possible futures concerning the stored events of teh day. The following days gain the benefitr when these pre-potentiations confirm or no. It's a kind of behavioural "priming".

      There is no mystery.

      But the news of this has to overcome the ignorance of humans stuck in entrenched world view. Many prefer fantacy to reality - and that also is no mystery.
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        Nov 23 2012: Hey Mitch,

        Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.

        My understanding was that when thoughts happen, several electrochemical events happen, hence we can state the electromagnetic signals can be measured. But to answer the question here, does electromagnetic signals induce thoughts or is it the other way around? That I do not think has been proven and carries a few theories. For example what induces human intiution, or instincts?

        With regards to conscience, yes it isnt a mystery, however it is only framed within an undefined parameter of possibilities. That is, scientifically, we have identified memory, thought process, and chemical factors that induces them or erases them, however, there is a significant area of consciouness is undefined. ie. patients regaining memory, past life memories, moral choices etc do not have a defined scientific structure.

        Similarly, if imagination is confined within the state of "world view" as you explain, then we must be able to replicate identical imagination patterns and consiquent results given a set number of program inputs. But this isnt true, we each posses an element of individual pattern that is tied to our thought processes and conscience, hence we all think different. We may behave in similar pattern but we certainly think different.This in my belief ties to our dream patterns as well.

        In short, we can certainly capture, manage, and influence these factors once it is induced and created but certainly not measured in its state of rest. Thats if thoughts are not induced it cannot creat the result of eletrochemical events. Hence reffering back to the question, where do these thoughts come from?

        Human ignorance is just amazing! I totally agree with you. We consider ourselves as the most evolved and intellegent species. yet we make deliberate choices that harm us after fully understanding the eventual consequences. For example, the choice to smoke. And we take great comfort in fantacy as escapisim from the reality foten.
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          Nov 23 2012: Hi Maaher,

          The electro chemical signals are the thoughts.

          It is our tradition that thoughts and signals are separate - an understandable fiction.

          It takes a little bit of research to understand it. A thought is not just a single signal path, but a whole network of paths which the signal traverses.

          I recommend you look at some of the work done on neural networks. The one I most recommend is Philp K Wasserman's book from 1989 "Neural computing theory and practice." this is not a comprehensive text, but is a very good introduction to the fields of research which underly our breakthroughs of AI and neurobiology. It deals with a few examples of early neural simulation structures. I spent a good deal of time programming models of these and other structures - when you do that .. it changes your life. Even the simple ones are mesmerising to watch (I always had visualisations running when I tested them).
          For consciousness, have a look at this:
          http://www.ted.com/talks/antonio_damasio_the_quest_to_understand_consciousness.html
          it also briefly covers the realm in which imagination occurs (the autobiographical self).
          The extrapolation into dream function is my own - but I'm fairly confident of the outcome. Have a look at this one:
          http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_wolpert_the_real_reason_for_brains.html
          This explains the basis of the Bayesian function of teh world view (adaptive causal maping)
          .Also look at Sapolski's lecture series:
          http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL848F2368C90DDC3D
          It is all falling into place. These age old questions are turning out to be remarkably simple things - we have invented more in our philosophies than really exists.

          The key is the toppology of neural networks. Once you "get it" it replaces humndreds of mistaken beliefs. I miself had the question "what is meta-space?" the place where all our symbols reside, and how they are stuctured. My answer is .. there is no metaspace .. just physical networks - an emergent property, in an open system.
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          Nov 23 2012: (contd.)

          It is a terrible mistake to think of a brain as a computer - it is nothing like a computer. The inputs. processing, memory and outputs are all integrated - specially the memory and processing.. we can artificially separate these things for the sake of analysis, but in the end, it must all be seen as a whole - and not just the brain, not just the nervous systems, but the whole creature we call "self" that is only partly described by our skin - in social animals the system extends outwards to our community - and beyond into our ecosystem - to our solar system and beyond.

          THere is a great mystery why the Cambrian epoch gave rise to nearly all the phyla we observe today - Darwin evolution did not seem to explain it - but it does. The Cambrian species explosion was due to the emergent power of teh nervous system - it created a vast new environmental niche to occupy - which it did. It is the topological breakthrough of teh neural network that brought life into this great phenomenon we call nature.

          I have also developed structural explainations for morality and irational decisions.
          It's a problem - such knowledge will destroy a lot of jobs and careers based on the old fictions. But I'm sure they will find more productive persuits.

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