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Ian Sheane

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What would your ideal government system look like?

What would your ideal government system look like? Is a two party system such a good idea?

Topics: 2012 US election government systems design
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    edward long 100+

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    Nov 12 2012: It would look like a good set of parents. Always looking-out for the safety and healthy development of those in its charge. Ever vigilant against harmful influences, but not burdening or impeding normal growth and advancement. Encouraging individualism, self-determination, and social responsibility. Always helpful, never brooding or oppressive.
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      Krisztián Pintér 200+

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      Nov 12 2012: your beard is all white, but you still want parents to take care of you?
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        edward long 100+

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        Nov 12 2012: Actually yes, I do rely on their strength and influence for protection from anarchist subterfuge. Rhetorically speaking, do you really have a vision of 7-billion people living without government? Is that how it works in Hungary?
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          Krisztián Pintér 200+

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          Nov 12 2012: if you are interested in the hungarian political system, i advise checking wikipedia. but it is not in any way interesting, so i don't advise it after all.

          i don't know what is "rhetorically speaking" in this context. i believe we don't need governments, rhetorically or otherwise. but we have a long way to go to get there.
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        edward long 100+

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        Nov 12 2012: I asked about Hungary because I think you live there and I know you are well informed, and fairly vocal, about government . By the word "rhetorical" I meant I was not expecting an answer, it was a question for effect only. But I appreciate your answer even though I cannot even begin to imagine our planet running on jungle rules. Are you truly a serious Anarchist?
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          Krisztián Pintér 200+

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          Nov 12 2012: anarcho-capitalist or libertarian, as we call it.
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          Jedrek Stepien 10+

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          Nov 12 2012: Libertarians are great but left to their own devices they would end up creating a world just as servile as the totalitarian states.

          They are great in terms of economics but a little disaster in terms of culture. They would set the world free as far as economy is concerned but the culture would make them servile again.

          Still, if anyone is closer to 'normal' on this planet it is them. So it goes.
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          Wade Crum

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          Dec 5 2012: Jedrek, This assumes all Libertarians share the exact same path to financial wealth, which I assure you is not the case. What I envision in a Libertarian environment is champions of competency in every facet of society. Never underestimate the human spirit, especially when it free from the contraints of the ill begotten governments.
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        edward long 100+

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        Nov 12 2012: Please explain how Libertarians are congruent to Anarchists in light of the fact that every ballot I have ever seen had Libertarians on it but not one ever had an Anarchist on it. I don't get it.
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          Krisztián Pintér 200+

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          Nov 12 2012: see, that is how it works. deny a movement a name, and you essentially destroyed the movement.

          libertarianism is claimed by minarchists and also chomsky.

          anarcho-capitalism is denied by all the left-anarchists that hates us.

          voluntarism is claimed by a group of crackpots who think they can "tune".

          we are denied a name. i prefer to call myself an ancap, and all the left anarchists can shout their lungs out for all i care.

        • John Frum 30+

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          Nov 12 2012: @Krisztián Pintér:
          With reference to Rothbard's article, I can foresee that a few "law enforcement agencies" working out their differences, purely in an anarchist manner, and merging together into one. If their differences are irreconcilable, it would be to the best interest of subscribers of each of those creating relatively stricter borders where the their own preferred "law enforcement agencies" gets considered to be the default. In the first case, we'd have, what can be considered to be ONE minarchist region, or in the second case, A FEW minarchist regions.

          Things may not turn out this way, but they just as likely, may. That's why I sympathize with both minarchy and anarchy.
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          Orlando Hawkins 20+

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          Nov 13 2012: Ahh, I think I've sat on the sidelines long enough..

          Chomsky, along with many other anarchist, would be the first to tell you that anrcho-capitalsim is not anarchism...Many people who study anarchist history usually refer to the Icelandic commonwealth as an example of anarchism. Wikipedia can tell you more about the I.C. but yes many leftest thinkers do not think anarcho-capitalist are anarchist..

          here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPUvQZ3rcQ

          nonetheless I respect what Krisztian says..if he identifies himself in that way, then I cannot force him to think otherwise, although I disagree that anarcho-capitalist are anarchist.
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        edward long 100+

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        Nov 12 2012: RE: "see that is how it works."
        Ye Gads man! tuning voluntarism; minianarchists; Chomsky; left anarchists; volutarism; crackpots; anarcho-capitalism; ancaps? I feel so ignorant having not heard of any of these. Earth is a diverse place!
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        Gillian Rutkowski

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        Nov 13 2012: really?? I have to say this.... you say too much without saying anything at all

    • John Frum 30+

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      Nov 12 2012: @edward long: Anarchy does not have to be bad at all. For example, many of the biggest companies I worked at had their own security staff. Some of the housing complexes I have lived in had their own security teams too. Think of such private security teams, but for entire towns or cities.

      This (http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard133.html) is one explanation of how things could work. But, I recognize that some implementations of minarchist or anarchist societies could be better than others, and that's why I also think it is important to have easy mobility for people.
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        Krisztián Pintér 200+

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        Nov 12 2012: rothbard probably is the best source, but for those that want some lighter, more easily available material, i suggest bob murphy or walter block.
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          pat gilbert 50+

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          Nov 12 2012: Well Eddy as an extra enticement Libertarians don't have a problem with the dope smoking that you will need in the future.

          Is there a country that practices anarcho capitalism?
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          edward long 100+

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          Nov 13 2012: RE: "yeah and in 1000ad. . . "
          I am confirming progress, not denying it. You went back to 100AD and 100 BC. You'll find no better government in that direction. If we go forward in time I recognize the possibility of some better form of government, or non-government being established some day..
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          pat gilbert 50+

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          Nov 13 2012: RE: Libertarian is used by people . . . "
          HUGE, HUGE difference between advocating for minimal government and advocating for no government !! The latter cannot properly be labeled "Libertarian". Right? Anyone? Hello.

          I don't think so. What is espoused to by Rothbard, Murphy is voluntary exchange where by private companies could provide what the government provides now. Which would require that the private companies have to respond to the market place which is HUGE, HUGE. In the video that you apparently did not bother to watch Muphy delineates this and how there would be representative government.

          Whether it could be achieved or not I don't know.

          I would suggest that if you post anything else that you do it at the top of the thread so it will be less tedious to respond to your comments.
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          edward long 100+

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          Nov 13 2012: RE: "It's not our fault . . ."
          This is a rugged conversation, but I am happy to see attention being given to the importance, necessity even, of practicing precise use of words and phrases consistent with their correct (accepted) meaning. Thanks!
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        pat gilbert 50+

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        Nov 12 2012: FWIW This guy, Robert P Murphy and Tom Woods are terrific speakers


        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0_Jd_MzGCw&feature=endscreen&NR=1

        • John Frum 30+

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          Nov 12 2012: I hope Edward sees your recommendations. I have already read/watched all three guys that you both mentioned.
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          edward long 100+

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          Nov 13 2012: RE: "Mr. Pinter used. . . "
          Got it! Anarchist is NOT a synonymn for Libertarian. Thank you!
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          edward long 100+

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          Nov 13 2012: RE: Libertarian is used by people . . . "
          HUGE, HUGE difference between advocating for minimal government and advocating for no government !! The latter cannot properly be labeled "Libertarian". Right? Anyone? Hello.
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          edward long 100+

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          Nov 13 2012: Well Pat, there is always some humor and irony here on TED. Your latest post closes with an admonition to use different posting techniques so as to reduce tedium in responding. Now here's the humor/irony: it is unclear to whom your lesson in communication is directed. Are you talkn' a me? Are you talkin' a me? (DeNiro).
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        edward long 100+

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        Nov 12 2012: I cannot invest in a system that does not derive all of its power from the people who then elect representatives to carry-out their wishes in town and city councils; county chambers; and state and federal legislatures. Human history is festooned with experiments of every type and none has excelled the Democratic Representative Republic.
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          Krisztián Pintér 200+

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          Nov 12 2012: yeah, and in 1000ad, you would say, monarchy is the only way to go, nothing better was ever invented. and in 100bc, you would say slavery is the best thing ever invented. you sir, are denying progress.

        • John Frum 30+

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          Nov 12 2012: if you were to read good libertarian literature, you'll see enough examples, from history, of how each of their specific points have worked. It is not as experimental as you might perceive it to be.
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          pat gilbert 50+

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          Nov 13 2012: Hell lets secede and try it right here. Could it possibly do worse than the current socialistic country formerly known as a republic.
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        edward long 100+

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        Nov 13 2012: RE: "if you were to read . . . "
        Now hold on a minute. You cannot use the word "Libertarian" interchangeably with the word "Anarchist". Mr. Pinter's side trip here is about the latter.
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          pat gilbert 50+

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          Nov 13 2012: Mr Pinter used the word Anarcho- Capitalist, not Anarchist, which is interchangeable with Libertarian.

          http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

        • John Frum 30+

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          Nov 13 2012: Just the left-libertarians seem to be a different species. There is a good deal of agreement between the other kinds. I use "libertarians" to include the rest.
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        edward long 100+

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        Nov 13 2012: RE: "Just the left . . . "
        How can I possibly know which of my myriad prejudices to apply to someone if I don't know what their label is? I really need labels and definitions here because this whole anarchist/libertarian thing is too confusing to discuss as it is.
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          pat gilbert 50+

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          Nov 13 2012: Libertarian is used by people who really don't know the definition of Libertarian. An example would be Noam Chomsky.

          Ron Paul is a true Libertarian. As he believes in individual liberty and minimal government. The core of which is individuals cooperating through voluntary exchange.
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          Krisztián Pintér 200+

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          Nov 13 2012: it is not our fault, really. the public talk is that confused. for example chomsky is a master obfuscator. another one would be michael moore. these people work hard to dilute the meaning of words.

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