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Roberto Sciffo

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Debate: Do vaccines work or are they just another money making tool in a trillion dollar industry?

There is much debate regarding vaccination; imposing on an individual's rights, questionable proof as to their effectiveness, and possible links to neurological diseases like epilepsy and autism.

Vaccines act like a type of homoeopathic remedy in the sense that the 'bug' is introduced into the body so that the autoimmune system may produce anti-bodies to protect against the 'bug'.

But, as far as I can tell, the germ theory was debated in early 1900's and disproved in the 1950's, therefore voiding all need for fighting 'bugs'.

So do vaccines actually work? What proof is there? Or is it more for big profit for big pharma?

I am open to all sides of the story!


Closing Statement from Roberto Sciffo

Thank you all for your contributions. It was a great learning experience, and I am sorry to have missed the last day of commenting due to work. I would have enjoyed commenting on you all individually.

We have heard both sides of the story. Pro-vaccination are happy because it provides safety to us and our children, and the statistics that indicate the effectiveness of the vaccine, and Stephan's comments as to how they work.

We are faced however with a 'small' number of people who have had their children come about with symptoms of reduced development progress through to epilepsy and autism.

We have also wondered whether so many vaccines so soon in life a a great idea, considering the fact that the aluminum levels exceed the 'allowed' amount.

The fact that the heavy metals are toxic and are known to promote dis-ease in the body, is something that I can not stress the importance of enough.

The World Health Organization noted as early as 1974 that heavy metal and chemical toxicity were at the cause of most chronic degenerative diseases.

I appreciate Linda Taylor for her research into what I have stated, and her challenges, will add:
1) the mean size of the zeolites are 0.3 microns therefore able to pass into the blood stream.
2) if you are to perform a detox, it needs to be done in stages so as to make it safe. Little of this information is available online.
3) the study you quote done on zeolites, please send me the link to the study as I would like to investigate it and see what the company has to say. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
4) You quote ' Rock that absorb toxins especially ammonia, might be of value' - Zeolites as well as chlorella have been
use since the 80's I believe, in waste water treatment plants for that very reason, both performing as far as I can tell, equally well at about 50% removal. Both are being used as detox mediums as well.

Thank you all and I hope we have all learned a great deal from this debate. Wishing us all the best!

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    Nov 10 2012: Well, lets look at the other side of it.

    AS I wrote to others in this discussion...

    My question is misinterpreted. Vaccines do work. But in doing so, are they making more damage than good in the long term?

    It seems they are interfering with the immune system and therefore setting us up for more dis-ease in the long term. That will only increase the number of vaccines needed (3x more today than 20 years ago) further ruining our system.

    Here are medical doctors discussing the different points of view.


    I am NOT DEBATING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF A VACCINE. Just tell me what the consequence is for taking it? If it affects my immune system then no thank you... there are more natural ways of tackling health issues.

    And yes, I do know of children, not vaccinated and not getting the flu in school while their fellow schoolmates are fighting the flu.

    Yes Linda, if you undergo an unsafe detox then you will get that reaction. Just think that mercury, being the preservative in the vaccine, is holding the virus permanently in the body. It is suddenly removed.. what will happen? Yes, unsafe detox will give a reaction.

    The World Health Organization noted as early as 1974 that heavy metal and chemical toxicity were at the cause of most chronic degenerative diseases.

    One doctor has stated:

    I have seen patients who had been diagnosed with illnesses including MS, Crohn’s disease, liver cancer, autism, hay fever, arthritis, gout, rheumatism, type 2 diabetes, Desert Storm syndrome, migraines, chronic candidiasis and parasite infections, psychotic “horrors” and a multitude of others end up hearing their doctors say, “It was a misdiagnosis,” after completing HM&C (Heavy Metal & Chemical) Detox successfully. Heavy metals and chemicals interfere with cellular, enzyme, endocrine and neurological function. I never “cured”any of those diseases, as the patients never had them to begin with. The HM&C toxicity manifested as those disease syndromes.
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      Nov 10 2012: I thought you were talking about chelation. I actually agree with chelation for heavy metal toxicity. It's really the only thing that works. But you have to understand the paradox of putting more chemicals in the body to get rid of chemicals. So the risk of further disease is there (kidney, liver, etc.). One should be very careful about chelation therapy and make sure to get to a practitioner that knows what they are doing. Unfortunately many are out to make money and promise cures that simply don't always happen. If you go to someone who knows what they are doing, they base the therapy on physiological evidence and know how to calculate the effectiveness of the treatment.

      It is the treatment of choice for many heavy metal toxicities.

      Unfortunately it does nothing for autism and a lot of diseases you mention:

      Understand that in the US detox usually implies a process that uses laxatives.
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        Nov 11 2012: Thank you Linda.

        Actually I am not too familiar with chelation therapy. Nor using DMSA or DMPS. And I agree with your idea of not putting more chemicals in the body.

        The only two products I would recommend are NDF / NDF Plus (BioRay Inc.) or PureBody (Touchstone Essentials). Both are natural yet work differently. The BioRay products are more of a active detox while the Pure Body is more of a passive detox, that works with the body. Both companies have done their research and have case studies. I have found some adverse reactions with the BioRay products but would put this down to an unsafe detox performed by the individual.

        I would recommend the PureBody to anyone if I don't know their case personally. Again, any detox should be ramped, so I never start on full dose but rather ramp up, to avoid symptoms.There are other changes to be in place before a detox is to be undertaken.

        I know personally one child, epileptic, who is now normal using the BioRay products (in combination with other therapies), and I am following a case of an severe autistic child who started on PureBody mid Sept 12 and is about 80-90% 'better' and even showing cognitive signs.

        I concur with the laxatives; bowl movement is essential to avoid reabsorption.
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          Nov 13 2012: OK This is what I know. Mercury when it is in the body resides in the tissues so there is nothing you can take by mouth to get rid of it. The only way I know to get rid of it is chelation.

          I looked up both of your products. One was kinda alarming because it contained aluminum. Not sure how ingesting aluminum helps decrease heavy metal toxicity. The other one, the website did not list ingredients. Big warning sign there. There was no link and I had to search the sight to find it. They did have a list of ingredients they use, assorted fungi and herbs and stuff. But they did not list amounts or the specific formulation.

          They listed something called "Fulvic Acid Complex" which was new to me so I looked it up. It appears to be either dirt or crushed rock.

          Neither listed how their products were distilled or placed in solution. They used both "tincture" and "tonic" it seems interchangeably. So I cannot say if they are in an alcohol based solution or some other liquid which will affect not only absorption, but the chemical structures in solution.

          There is nothing on either site that I would trust these products.


          They may even be harmful esp. if someone is allergic. I also would not deliberately ingest aluminum.

          Case studies are just cases. I notice they do not post any cases where there was no effect. Instinctively I bet there are more of those than the ones that they post. They don't even post a percentage of how many people it "works" for. My guess would be that the cases are financially reimbursed.

          Sorry. Looks like snake oil at best. If you want to believe in magic beans it's OK with me. But I am no child.
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        Nov 13 2012: Brilliant Linda,
        Points well made.
        I was reading the white paper on Pure Body and was surprised to find the aluminum aspect. So I kept reading, and have pasted some information for you below:

        The chemical formula for clinoptilolite, a common natural zeolite is: (Na3K3)(Al6Si40)O96 • 24H2O
        For clinoptilolite, atoms or cations (charged metal atoms) within the second set of parentheses
        (aluminum and silicon) are known as structural atoms, because with oxygen they make up the
        rigid framework of the structure. This is why the form of aluminum in zeolites is completely
        inert and does not react or release in the body in any way.

        Those within the first set of parentheses (sodium and potassium) are known as exchangeable
        ions, because they can be replaced (exchanged) more or less easily with other cations in
        aqueous solution, without affecting the aluminosilicate framework. This phenomenon is known
        as ion exchange, or more commonly cation exchange.

        The negative charges of the AlO4 units are balanced by the presence of four-exchangeable, positively charged metals known as cations. These cations usually consist of calcium, magnesium, sodium and potassium. These ions are only loosely held and can be readily displaced by other substances, such as toxic heavy metals or other organics

        The clinoptilolite binds a variety of toxins. This includes heavy metals (Lead, Cadmium, Mercury, etc.), nitrosamines, and others. Cationic exchange is an entirely passive process—when the zeolite is in close proximity to these high-affinity compounds, they will be drawn to the zeolite and either absorbed into the cage or adsorbed onto the surface of the zeolite. There is no chemical activity in this process.

        I have the white paper link here:

        So this is for the PureBody, that I will postulate as a passive detox substance.

        The other product is NDF and would regard that as an active detox product. More later...
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          Nov 14 2012: Thanks for making me do my homework. What I find is that Zeolyte is water softener stuff. It exchanges sodium and potassium with magnesium and calcium to make hard water soft.

          Clinoptilolite is also used in mixing concrete. It is lava based. Zeolyte is so named because it can absorb water and you can cook the water out of the rock.

          So basically it is ground up rocks. So if you put the ground up rocks in water, and they fill with water, and your body is not hot enough to boil the water off, there will be no cation exchange.

          Remember it is used in some water filters so you would have to have a lot rock powder for it to absorb anything. Just because it can filter out cations in water, does not ever mean it touches your blood if you ingest it. What probably happens (and I do not have anything to base this on except a basic understanding of anatomy and chemistry) is that the sodium and potassium ions are released in the acidic gastric environments and exchanged for hydrogen ions. So you are basically neutralizing stomach acid.

          Nothing I read substantiates heavy metal ion exchange within the body. There are too many other ions floating around in your system for it to ever find and attach to a single heavy metal. At best it does nothing, at worse you are messing with basic electrolyte balance between Na, K, Mg and Ca. If somehow it does attach to calcium, you could be reducing calcium stores which contribute to osteoporosis and fracture. Not to mention all kinds of hormonal and cardiac malfunction possibilities.

          Outside of the industrial use of zeolyte, all the hits on my searches were sales pitches with no evidence what so ever. Even their claims to experts were carefully crafted so not to assign any results to any person.

          Given that the pulverized rock is basically aluminum and sand, I really cannot see any benefit to bothering to pay that stupid amount of money to swallow rocks.

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