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Mats Kaarbø

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How Biosocial Pressures Could Trigger a Cataclysmic Event

Analyzing current world events both socially and economically, one sees much more frustration and anger in society today than there was four to five decades ago. In a world where 0.01% of the population in America own more of the national wealth now than at any time since 1928*, is a reason for that anger. From the Arab Spring to Occupy Wall Street, we saw and still see protesters demanding justice, change and equal opportunities. We know that 90-95% of all crime and violence stem from monetary reasons (usually the lack of it), so we must begin to ask the question - is it worth it? Is it worth having a socioeconomic system that allows and even glorifies a 'hardworking' percentage of the population to absorb as much money as they pleases at the expanse of the rest, in hope that one day we all will reach such heights? By the way, I do not suggest that any activist group will eventually resort to violence as a natural step, I am merely looking at the trends globally and how it could degenerate from certain economic levels.

On top of technological unemployment and outsourcing of jobs and labor (due to profit and efficiency), what will happen the day hyperinflation kicks in and the purchasing power of the general public decreases? What will happen the day people have no other option to get food than by breaching a local store or tearing down a shopping mall? What will happen the day people get thrown out of their homes and left for the streets as a result of reckless monetary policies? What will happen the day people say enough is enough and starts invading those who have all the wealth? Will protecting these assets and wealth at all costs be justified by putting people in jail for allegedly stealing or, if it reaches mass eruption, to even neutralize the invaders?

So, is it all doom and gloom or are you more optimistic about the future? And what is logical next step?

* http://topincomes.g-mond.parisschoolofeconomics.eu

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  • Nov 7 2012: When the sh*t really hits the fan people will turn to local initiatives to survive, like the Greeks who are now growing their own food outside the cities. We can only speculate about what the end result of ever increasing income and wealth inequality will be, but yes, it might not be pretty.
  • Nov 17 2012: "Is it worth having a socioeconomic system that allows and even glorifies a 'hardworking' percentage of the population to absorb as much money as they pleases at the expanse of the rest, in hope that one day we all will reach such heights? "

    Most people think it is worth it. At least, the vast majority of people in the west are not about to join a violent revolution to change the status quo. Were you around four and five decades ago? I remember the marches, the bombings, the assassinations and the sit-ins. Frustration and anger are normal. They are great motivators to better the circumstances of our families.

    Unless and until circumstances get much worse, get used to it.
  • Nov 8 2012: What kind of equality are we asking for that has a way of ensuring freedom, progress, and opportunity while rewarding hard work yet preventing corrupt money games? I would love to hear suggestions.
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      Nov 10 2012: One could be the abolishment of money itself. I am very passionate about this evolution of society, but many disagree. A society where we utilize science and technology to intelligently manage and allocate our resources to meet the needs of all human beings on the planet by claiming all of Earths resources as the common heritage of all mankind. Where we collectively would utilize technology to free mankind (through automation of jobs and labor) in order for every human being to be able to reach their fullest potential personally, socially and culturally. This would essentially make money obsolete, since our values are about collectively sharing our resources and through technology create abundance for all.

      Another alternative could be an unconditional basic income for everybody, both rich and poor, that ensures the necessities of life thus creating economic mobility and flexibility that would amplify freedom and opportunity.
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    Nov 8 2012: In the short term, it's all gloom and doom. In the long run, I still have a little hope for humanity. It's dwindling though. What has happened to humanity? I am surrounded by ignorant people who are wholly uninformed but virulent in spouting vitreol in support of all the policies that have created and still support the problems that we face.

    I don't want to prevent what is to come. I want a better life.
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    Nov 7 2012: yet another flood of "facts"

    1. Biosocial means a completely different thing
    2. "one sees much more frustration and anger in society today" - probably not true
    3. "We know that 90-95% of all crime and violence stem from monetary reasons" - unlikely. many crimes happen out of anger, fear or recklessness. another big part is drug use
    • Nov 7 2012: "unlikely. many crimes happen out of anger, fear or recklessness. another big part is drug use"

      That's the minority of crimes, the majority of crime does come from people wanting to get rich (or richer) quick or from people who really have no money (sometimes that's their own fault, sometimes it's not). The whole of organized crime centers around money and drug use would be lowered if there weren't so many people trying to escape from monetary problems.
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        Nov 7 2012: show me the statistics.
        • Nov 7 2012: Do I really need to explain to you that petty crime and all the crime associated with organized crime syndicates is more common than rape and crimes of passion?
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        Nov 7 2012: yes, because you need to go up to 90%. in my country, serious crimes like murder or assault is more often a result of passion, jealousy, recklessness or sudden impulse. if you include smaller crimes, you get drunk driving, other traffic law violations, drug use and such.
        • Nov 7 2012: In my country there are 2500-3000 robberies per year, but only 150-200 murders (and a significant portion of those are related to organized crime, which is all about money). Many assaults also fall under organized crime. Mind you I live in a peaceful, egalitarian Western European country, in more unequal societies such as the United States there is much more crime and the bulk of that additional crime has to do with money, directly or indirectly. Also don't forget money laundering and fraud are also crimes. Many drug-related crime also has to do with money: heroine (like many other drugs) doesn't make people aggressive and it's not really that expensive to produce, but people lose their incomes because of it and then go out stealing to get money.
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        Nov 7 2012: and what about speeding? driving under influence of alcohol?

        if you carefully select the cases, no doubt you can prove anything.
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      Nov 7 2012: ""We know that 90-95% of all crime and violence stem from monetary reasons" - unlikely. many crimes happen out of anger, fear or recklessness. another big part is drug use"

      And why do people get angry, fearful or reckless? Mostly because of monetary reasons like inequality and insecurity which has a direct effect on your social relations which also has an effect on your health. This is proven in Richard Wilkinson's study which you can watch in the related talks in the description of this conversation. I urge you to research more about topics before you make baseless claims. It fosters a much more productive and healthy conversation instead of filling up the space with nonproductive stuff.
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        Nov 7 2012: jealousy most of the time, or simply games of domination.
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          Nov 7 2012: Check out Wilkinson's talk and do a little research about it.
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        Nov 7 2012: why don't you do a little research? you did claim it
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          Nov 7 2012: I've done my own research and I've pointed you towards the source material a number of times, which you keep ignore. If you had seen Wilkinson's talk, which you seemingly haven't, you could do a quick little Google search and have found his site and his evidence: http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence. If this is difficult for you however, it is easier to just say so in the beginning if you question the material. It saves both of our time and I am always glad to help you.
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        Nov 7 2012: there is no 90% on that page. give accurate reference
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    Nov 7 2012: No. How likely these scenarios are likely depends on the place in the world.

    Would you please follow out these scenarios for Norway, as you have posed this question and Norway is where you live?
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      Nov 7 2012: "How likely these scenarios are likely depends on the place in the world."

      It depends on the biosocial pressures that emerge in any given region. This could easily happen in America as it could in Somalia.

      "Would you please follow out these scenarios for Norway, as you have posed this question and Norway is where you live?"

      Like I said, it all depends on the biosocial pressures. It can happen here in Norway as in any other place in the world.
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        Nov 7 2012: I will follow with interest as you work these scenarios through here for Norway! I know too little about Scandinavia.
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          Nov 7 2012: I'm not sure what you mean by 'working out these scenarios'. Could you elaborate?
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        Nov 7 2012: You asked questions like: What will happen the day...? What will happen the day...?

        I thought that was what you wanted to explore.
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          Nov 7 2012: Sure, but what is the point of working out a scenario in Norway when it solely depends on the biosocial pressures? Biosocial pressures are equal all over the world.
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        Nov 7 2012: I think working out "what ifs" usually works better and more concretely taking a view from the ground.

        So why don't you start by getting specific about how this would unfold in Norway?
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    Nov 7 2012: Some years back, Mats, there were a number of very popular post-apocalyptic movies. Blade Runner might have been one of them. Those might give you some ideas for dystopian scenarios.
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      Nov 7 2012: Are you suggesting that this never could happen beyond the motion pictures?
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    Nov 7 2012: That is why I think we need guns. There is nothing more dangerous and unpredictable than an angry mob.
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      Nov 7 2012: How would guns resolve anything, assuming we want to prevent such things from happening?
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        Nov 7 2012: The only alternative I can see is to join the angry mob, which we do not fancy as well.