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Who do you think is the right choice for president and why?

The one issue that gets debated on frequently is politics, so what are your thoughts on the 2012 race?
Who won which debates? Who has the best ideas?
are the third party candidates a good option?


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    Nov 3 2012: Gary Johnson but since he has no chance Romney

    Because O has to be fired otherwise I recommend investing in firearms and can goods.

    I will say that O may have done the most good for America of any president since Reagan. Why you ask? Glad you asked, O has galvanized the citizens to do what has to be done. Which will be proved out by a landslide victory for Romney.
    • Nov 5 2012: You should vote for Johnson. It would show people what you actually want instead of supporting this idiotic two-party "half the population hates the president, nobody's happy" system we have now.

      If you are insinuating that Obama will take away gun rights, you would be incorrect, Obama has expanded gun rights. But maybe i mistook what you wrote.

      The next thing is just silly.
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      Nov 7 2012: It turns out your political predictions, are as pristine, as your understanding of economics... Don't confuse the guns with the cans of soup, or you might accidentally shoot yourself.
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        Nov 7 2012: I missed that one. I had no idea how stupid America has become. But then if you are any indication...

        You probably voted for prop 30 also?
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          Nov 7 2012: Are you kidding? I made it out of this generation with a two year degree, and no illegitimate children, or serious drug addictions. I'm not even a fan of alcohol...

          I'm the tip of the iceberg... The average young American is far, far dumber than even I manage. I do enjoy cigarettes despite the suicidal implications though, so... I'm still pretty stupid.

          Don't fret though... I think you're really going to enjoy the GOP 2016 front runner a Shrieking White Hot Sphere, of Pure Rage.

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        Nov 7 2012: Some of the stuff on the Onion is funny, that is not one of them.

        From what I see you are missing the ability to think critically, to use logic. I think that the schools have consistently been dumbed down. This is not about intelligence it is about the willingness to communicate, which means genuinely get what someone is saying.

        What is the attraction to Obama for you and your friends?
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          Nov 7 2012: I voted for Johnson. Obama is simply the lesser of two evils for young people. He's open to gay marriage, promotes stem cell research, gays in the military, equal health insurance rights for women (if you cover Viagra, you have to cover the pill). He also killed the actual terrorist who attacked on 9/11... which George Bush had absoluely no interest in. Most young people believe seal team 6 and the CIA, was all we needed to involve after 9/11 in the first place.

          The long and short of it... The religious right, has turned the Republican party, into a group of backwoods, fear mongering, religious zealots. The positions they have on every major social issue, is not just wrong, it's ancient, perverse, and embarrassing to every sane human being under 30.

          Mitt Romney said that Paul Ryan's completely unfunded tax plan made sense, and Russia was our greatest geopolitical threat... No one under 30 is dumb enough to listen to people who say things like that, even the drug addicts with illegitimate children know better.

          Finally, everything libertarians hate about Obama, NDAA, patriot act, torture... are policies started by George Bush, that Mitt Romney, didn't disagree with.
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        Nov 7 2012: Do you think that the Libertarians will have more influence in the future?

        FWIW I have been a registered libertarian longer than you have been alive.

        I don't have a problem with the social issues. On defense we have to have it period, but at the same time it has to be relevant to today's world.

        But I think what you don't realize, probably because you have not been in the work a day world long enough, is what effects people the most is economic freedom, this is the foundation of the Libertarian party and on that we completely disagree. Even though we are both Libertarians how can that be?
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          Nov 7 2012: We don't disagree on economic freedom. I want lower taxes, by making people who ask for our military aid, to print money for it... and people who don't ask for our military aid, to be left alone, unless they present a legitimate military threat.

          I want McDonald's to have grease again, but I don't want it to pretend it's chicken sandwhiches are a "healthy option", or sell their grease to children through the school system. I'm glad you can see what you're doing to your body on the menu, because it's a vice food, a treat... It should have ice cream with sugar, and soy oil should be a joke... but public schools with free lunch, should encourage healthy eating. If they kids whine, let them actually starve for a day, and suddenly broccoli will look great, tell the parents to shut up, or buy food.

          I want us to decide if the Fed is our national bank, and Wal Mart, Starbucks, and McDonald's, are government sponsored corporations getting 0% interest loans... That we all now support, and will make local burger and coffee joints a thing of the past... Or are we capitalists, who think 0% interest loans to corporations that then purchase in enormous scale, is socialism? Personally, I think the digital transfer of giant 0% interest loans to mediocre corporations at best... is immoral, illogical, small business crushing, and economy crushing. I want local joints, with flavor.

          I'm not against swift responses and invading other countries soil to attack and kill legitimate confirmed terrorists. I would not even oppose drone strikes if they had simple weapons that killed confirmed terrrorists, with guns instead of bombs. I'm against civilian deaths. And the "military aged males are all enemy combatants unless proven otherwise" policy, of avoiding pay outs to widows.

          I would not oppose expanding what allows you to get a warrant from a judge for surveillance... Not getting a warrant is unconstitutional, prove your case to one person who doesn't know you.
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          Nov 7 2012: Where I depart from most libertarians, and still choose to loosely identify with them... is that we've been paying into social security, and medicare for a long time... and the fed has created money like water for 20 years at least... I think we can raise the age, end the wealth cap, and print some money, taking the hit as international inflation to make the system solvent.

          I think insurance is snake oil... so making it not for profit, and backing it with the secret knowledge that we will print money if we don't pay enough to cover the gap... Might be a worthwhile endeavor, given how popular health and retirement insurance are as snake oil.

          I am against a national health service, but national, not for profit health and retirement insurance make a type of sense to me as a safety net for hard working but gullible, or stupid people. You might convince me that personallizing these programs, and putting everything on the individual, taking interest from people who die without payout... but we don't need profit to sell good snake oil, it sells itself... It protects you from everything.

          Also, I am against the economic freedom to buy people, poison a river, or the air that other people have to breathe or drink, and you don't own. I'm against the economic freedom to pay lower taxes than your maid while we spiral into debt... basic stuff.
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        Nov 7 2012: Of the 3 areas you mention

        Food Labeling



        Which one do you feel is the most important?
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          Nov 7 2012: You should be a commentator on Fox News... You asked about economic freedom, I mentioned three areas of economic freedom I find important. Proper labeling and advertising of products in general, ie fair easy to understand contracts. A more focused, but less bulky and foreign base, or power driven military, and the end to the government sponsorship of corporations.

          As issues of economic freedom that I mentioned, government sponsorship of corporations must end, is number 1. 2 would be reduced military spending, and 3 would be proper labeling and advertising.

          Reframed as which of these 3 areas is most important.

          Defense - the fact that we murder civilians and then refuse to pay their families because they are men, literally keeps me up at night, as it does many aware 18-30 year old men.
          Outside of that I don't think many sane nations really want to engage us, and we can take out insane people as they approach violent action.

          Economy - ending the government sponsorship of corporations.

          3-10 numerous other issues. Then labeling.

          In my dream list 3 would be an international human rights tariff signed on to by the US. Maybe 1% for suffrage, 1% for women's suffrage, 1% for freedom of speech... If the UN decides the patriot act violates freedom of speech... icing on the cake.
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        Nov 7 2012: Labeling

        smaller military

        crony capitalism

        military spending

        war victims rights

        crony capitalism is mentioned a total of 3 times

        labeling is mentioned a total of 2 times

        human rights

        foreign voters rights

        How would you expect to effect the changes you want with out a military?

        It sounds like crony capitalism is your biggest beef?

        You realize that no one wants crony capitalism? But that O is as in bed with the cronies as Bush?
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          Nov 9 2012: Who says I want to be without a military? I'm not against the military, I'm against abuses in the military industrial complex, like over estimating threats to grab contracts.

          My biggest beef is the fact that since I was 19 America has been without a constitution, and and it steals my money to indescriminately murder civilians. Until both of those issues are resolved I really have no use for American society, and refuse to contribute to it in any economically impactful way.

          Crony capitalism is a big beef as well, but I could learn to tolerate Wal Mart, they should just rename it "Conglomerate State General Store 1". Yes both parties are full of evil psychopaths who wish to implement crony capitalism, steal our money to murder people, and imprison us without trial. That's why I couldn't vote for Obama.

          I'm glad he won, because in a world where no one is sane, or decent... We might as well have sex ed, do stem cell research, and treat gay people fair. What did Mitt Romney have to offer you, or anyone else?
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        Nov 9 2012: I don't know what you mean regarding having no Constitution, specifically what do you mean?

        Apparently you are going Galt?

        I'm not sure how much Walmart is a crony certainly not in the league of the big 5 banks.

        Mainly what Romney offered was a solution to this:


        Which imo dwarfs anything else
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          Nov 9 2012: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

          The Patriot Act, and its expansion through the NDAA directly took this right away.

          "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;"

          Again... number 5... Poof! Gone.

          "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial"

          Number 6 Hasta la bye bye.

          "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

          8... Not so great any more...

          Given, that under The Patriot Act, and NDAA, United States citizens can be tapped, convicted without trial by the person who unconstitutionally tapped them, tortured and never released... The United States government now can take away your freedom of speech, and right to bear arms, without trial... Thus, the entire bill of rights was rendered completely useless by the patriot act, and its expansion in the NDAA. Bradley Manning has yet to see a trial for his wikileak.

          I've actually had issues with paying taxes ever since the war started... I get to 15 or 20 k, and I literally start thinking, "Alright, this is it, across this threshold, you pay taxes and murder civilians." Usually I quit my job or in my younger days fell into some self destructive habit. Only read Rand two, maybe three years ago, but identified very closely with Galt.

          Going Galt would require a bit of savings, right now i'm just surfing the poverty line, hoping we'll stop this nonsense and I can build some green tech.
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          Nov 9 2012: He offered a solution to that problem... He just wouldn't tell you what it was, until after you elected him : p

          Also, the truth is, he offered your generation a solution... It was basically an elderly bail out "everyone 55 and up gets their benefits, unchanged, young people get privatization"... People 55 and up are in the generation we can't afford to have retire... They paid into a program designed for people with a life expectancy of 59 their whole life.
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        Nov 9 2012: Of course the bill of rights should continue no argument. But in context when that was started we had just suffered though 9/11.

        The solution is regarding the video that you didn't bother to look at. Ryan had a plan regarding this. The other solution is that despite your disbelief in smaller government it really does create jobs. There have only been 2 times when government was made less onerous and both times it created a boom time. Which reliefs the greatest enslavement of all which is the financial enslavement you talk about.

        But it is all rearranging the deck chairs on Titanic unless we get the debt handled.

        Anyway you appear to be happy to blame rather than put out any effort so I'm done with this conversation.
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          Nov 10 2012: I watched the video. It describes absolutely no difference between Mitt Romney, and Barack Obama. The math of the Paul Ryan budget makes sense only in a fantasy world.

          I don't blame anyone for anything. I hold individuals responsible for their choices and actions.

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