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If the state is so bad at raising children, how come we allow the state to educate our children?
It's obvious that our educational system is broken, but who is willing to take action to create a new system? Much of learning can be broken down into how much attention does a child get. In a classroom that's almost nil, as a teachers time is spread between 30 students. Studies also clearly show that grading children has a detrimental effect on them. So why do we continue this waste of resources that is also a waste of our children's potential.
What is an alternative to the current method of education. Is there a way to light the fire of children's curiosity rather than smothering it with facts.
John Moonstroller 20+
I've been taking some online courses at the many universities that offer them. I can say I pick up more pertinent information about subjects I lack real knowledge in like "Genetics" very quickly. This is still a new offering with some problems here and there, mostly in the neighborhood of feed back. I think the prepared learner, will find much to offer in these types of classes.
It does place the responsibility on teachers to be adequately trained in some new techniques like video taping and editing but once a format is established, they need not go back over it again, increasing their free time. These formats can also be offered in the class that is appropriate supplied with desktop stations.
The speed of learning is amazing. I would recommend everyone take a course and check it out for themselves.
Alan Urdaibay
John Moonstroller 20+
The real truth is because we are "lazy", or preoccupied with more important things.
Alan Urdaibay
However, your main point seems to be your question: "Why do we let the state educate our children?" Well, it is not ultimately the responsibility of the state to educate your children. It's your responsibility and you should do it and not complain about the state. Send your children to school, by all means, but ensure you provide a substantial input yourself. I have a feeling you do. Good for you and your kids!
If the state did not educate children many would suffer from lack of opportunity and there might be no route to demonstrate success in any field - I, for one, would not want to visit an unqualified doctor. As to grading children having a detrimental effect on them - try a Rudolf Steiner school. However, I have met and taught the products of these schools and not yet found a student who was pleased with the outcome.
John Moonstroller 20+
The state "is" raising our children, unless you can afford some alternative. While providing food, shelter and comfort is paramount to a child's survival, the kind of human being they become has a lot to do with education.
It is possible, in the state sponsored, educational system for a family with old notions of racism and financial separationism, to end up with a child that thinks their family is old fashion, uneducated and odd.
When I was a child, it was essential that a family produce the right ideas in the heads of the children. The basic ideas were: reading; writing; and arithmetic and a sense of nationalistic pride, along with belief in religion. Those ways are quickly diminishing, for the most part. We have become caretakers of our own children. The state does the rearing.
If online education takes hold and we can find a way to supervise our kids at home, it could turn around and move the other way (do we want that?).
We have come a long ways from our raciest roots in North America, even though we still have far to go. The average child may not know how to do arithmetic in their heads but they can get the correct answer more times than not, with their portable brain substitutes, if they understand the fundamentals of arithmetic and how to use a calculator. Most offices today don't allow their employees the opportunity to do arithmetic in their heads. There are still jobs where the ability to do math in your head is still a requirement, especially in the field where it is not usual to find a calculator handy. Most carpenter jobs require this skill.
Mats Kaarbö 10+
John Moonstroller 20+
scott lee
It is true there are alternative methods, with more individualized care, but that requires more funding and we have to be willing to actually fund the education system. I have heard many times that we need to make grand changes to how kids are educated, but when it comes time to pay up, nobody wants to pay for the taxes and most people can't afford private school for their children.
The sad truth is school is supposed to be for education but it is in many ways it is essentially day care. The reason people don't home school more is the fact that parents simply don't have the time. Often both parents must work to get by cannot afford to leave the work force to educate their children themselves. In order to take on the huge task of education, people have to live with a lot less, and may have to give up the idea of owning their own home, or making enough money for their children's post secondary education. These can be tough decisions.
Tao P 50+
scott lee
However, I do strongly disagree with your reply in one regard. The is the persistent idea floating around that the problem with education is that it isn't efficient enough. That we put so much in and don't get enough out. All we have to do is reform the system and we will be able to have wonderfully educated, mentally healthy, creative, individually catered to children. That just isn't true.
Its no mystery what kids need. We need smaller classes, more individualized learning, special care for kids with special needs and opportunities for the gifted kids to shine. We need sports, arts, science labs, trades shops and access to technology. We need counsellors to help teens in hard times and to help fight bullying and drug addiction. All of those things take resources.
When we strive for efficiency instead of quality in education we get all of the problems that we have. We get larger class sizes and less support for teachers. We get economy of scale, enormous schools with as few employees as possible. We get efficient quality control of education, which turns out to be standardized testing. We get cutbacks to anything that doesn't improve results on those standardized test.
The idea that we can get more for our kids for less investment is the root of our problems in education. We need to get more for our kids with more resources.
We simply need to give the education system the resources it deserves. It is not some bloated ineffective monster; it is a bare bones, underfunded machine that pumps out grads.
We need to fund it properly.
Tao P 50+
This is where I see the potential. Instead of attempting to fill children with facts, we need to actively try and spark their curiosity, their enthusiasm. This is a program that in all likely-hood will not work in a rigid bureaucratic system that relies on tests.
John Smith 30+
Compared to what? Other countries (that also have public schools), or private schools (that admit students selectively)? What is your reference point?
John Moonstroller 20+
John Smith 30+
You might be right, but I think that's primarily an American problem. On one hand you have people like "Tao P" who see it as a given that public education sucks, on the other hand you have the hysterical teacher unions who keep repeating they're underpaid, even some of my favorite progressive commentators fall for this and say things like "Finland actually pays its teachers a decent wage", while American teacher wages are comparable to European, including Finnish, teacher wages, even when you factor in PPP (this comparison is quite reliable because American teachers do get "free" health care, like all Europeans, but unlike many American employees). American schools are also ruined by parents having so much influence over them, nobody needs fat, suburban teabagging moms, with apparently nothing better to do, actively trying to get the biology teacher fired for teaching sex ed or evolution. American schools mostly need investments in equipment and science teachers (all the other teachers are already taken care of just fine) and they need to make sure the amount of money a school receives doesn't depend on the neighborhood it's in.
@below
"By locking them up in and forcing them to complete meanningless homework we tend to rid them of their love for learning"
It's not "meaningless", language is very important in the business world, history is necessary to have educated voters and math and the exact sciences keep the modern world going. When I was a kid I didn't want to play or tend to a garden all day, I actually liked book learnin'.
Tao P 50+
My point about wasted resources is not that we pay teachers to much, it's that children are far more valuable than we are led to believe. We could set up a educational system in which children learn by setting up a community garden and running it for a year (or more). There are countless ways in which children could contribute to their communities while learning and having fun. By locking them up in and forcing them to complete meanningless homework we tend to rid them of their love for learning
Douglas Everingham
John Moonstroller 20+
"Pessimism to me is stating the problems and being unable or unwilling to work towards answers. So my saying you're being pessimistic is not saying you are wrong, but I don't think you are helping us move forward. If we hope to improve the World we need to work with eachother instead of criticizing without any constructive thought."
You are correct that I am pessimistic. I saw what happened to the Occupy Wall street movement. I see "opposition" to changing the status quo being successful. There in lies my pessimism.
But I am not wrong in criticizing the status quo. It is through criticism that we can note our mistakes and discover innovation towards the path to enlightenment and successful social interaction.
All social problems can be resolved and eradicated through the efforts of joint social activity. But we must first bring down the barriers that create social isolationism. We must create an atmosphere of togetherness.
Technology offers an opportunity to do this but will, itself, mold us into a different sort of society if not hobbled with restraint. If that society does not incorporate a sense of togetherness, it becomes just another failed experiment towards creating a Class I civilization.
By pointing out the problems I am not propelling us towards a platform of failure, I am pointing out why the other platforms failed.
But Yes, pessimism is my strong inflection in discussion such as this. But you should use my pessimism to enlarge your ideas, not toss it aside. I am firmly joined to you in the desire for a better way of living together. I appreciate your desire and share in it.
Don Wesley 50+
John Moonstroller 20+
So, if it is not the abilities of the children or the teachers that prevent children from enjoying and longing for knowledge, what is it?
Could it be the method of delivery? If a ruling class cannot control a humans ability to learn they can only manipulate them through the method of delivery. By regulating the methods of delivery, they can manipulate the whole system and create a segment of the population for management and the other to be managed.
Technology does not depend on having a ruling class or a ruled class. It moves forward with knowledge. It gets incorporated into society and is used by society to regulated and expand itself. As such, it is not ruling class or ruled class dependent. But, it does impact how rulers will will rule. If by using computers a people can get ride of their managers, the need for middle class management society declines. If by using technology, the ruled can exploit the resources themselves without guidance from the ruling class, the need for a ruling class declines.
This experiment in computer guided learning is being carried on right now all over the internet. I am a participant. I recommend everyone get involved. It's bad for teachers but good for society. Technocracy is the future.
John Moonstroller 20+
Tao P. There is an alternative to this type of educational system. It is a known fact that when children are educated in an environment where there are no losers and winners, the medium average hovers over the middle of the population. Why? Because the winners become ministers too the loosing class. When the bare fact of being human is the source of reverence for all within the population you have harmony, a sense of brother and sister hood a village like atmosphere.
The big power or drive in all of this is the idea of a sense of "Reverence" for the human model. Without it, the human becomes nothing more than another object for manipulation within the framework of survival.
If the greatest act of reverence was for a human being was to give their life for another, then you have the basic premise to establish rule by human devotion to one another.
Every other idea about social harmony falls away from this centrist ideal. The idea of togetherness is central and offset from the idea of self. Self is the current rule of the day and has been for all the history of mankind. We must evolve and become a society of togetherness. Together there is no mountain too large or heavy for us to move. Together, we can move out into the stars.
Believe it or not. The idea of corporation offers an avenue towards reaching this goal. By forming ourselves into corporations we become brothers and sisters of the corporation and the corporations become elements in the society of social existence. Currently, we are spread out too thinly. By contracting ourselves into Social villages (Living corporation cells), we can consolidate our resources better and extend resources to each corporate village cell as it's needs be. From each cell according to it abilities and to each according to its needs.
Tao P 50+
That is one powerful suggestion for a new system of education to be based upon. To take a step further perhaps we can remove the judgement (grading) that is so prevalent in schools today. The only time for tests is when one needs to prove their skills are adequate for a particular task (to drive a car, become a surgeon, work as an electrician) but these can even be performed as an apprentice to a professional who can then approve ones proficiency without a true test.
To build on your other point, I agree that we do need to develop a more co-operational society. It is inevitable that we would go from acting as individuals to acting as groups and communities, it is the only way evolution flows.
I like your point on having mutual corporations, though perhaps what you are stating is more akin to having cooperatives. I think we can apply your idea to communities then perhaps they could have more community space that the members could access and take care of. More places for social interaction.
John Moonstroller 20+
The reason most of the systems we've created fail is because they always evolve along capitalistic lines where the greatest portions is distributed to the one with the ability to gather the greatest portion. It is the nature of the game, like playing poker, it a a game more so than a method of creating harmony and togetherness. A wealth distribution network based on need would serve us better.
We need educated children, not children who can pass a test. All children, if given the opportunity to learn, according to their abilities can lean anything. But, if we constrain them with time limits, we introduce a mechanism that accumulates failure, as well as success. We must get ride of the sense of failure. This, of course, is one of the motives of the Special Olympics movement.
The ideas I posed in the beginning about population control are very circulatory in the realm of the ruling class. Why? Because it is a cheap idea to implement. The basic motivation of the wealthy after they obtain wealth is how to hold on to it. It is a natural form of survival of the fittest and dominates almost every faucet of human endeavor today. How to change and eradicate this desire requires us to change the way we live and view success and failure. We have to get rid of the notion of failure.
Testing, of course only helps to foster a sense of failure. But, everything we do is a test of sorts. Each time a doctor preforms an operation it is a test of his/her abilities to accomplish the operation.
What if the doctor fails the test?
Change towards making us feel a sense of togetherness and doing away with any sense of failure is something new. It's something we have never obtained before. It's necessary if we are to continue a sense of reverence for Life.
"It's always more complicated than it appears". John's Rule of Life.
Don Wesley 50+
I would say that the final lesson is, that
"A Society of Village" is a regression from the "Healthy Family of Man, Woman and Child."
The State must be involved in education when,
Democracy has the "Healthy Family of Man, Woman with Child"
Meeting monthly, and also voting monthly as to what must be taught.
They, the father and mother must be educated as to what is needed in their village
And outside their village, to be creative and to produce wealth
For the whole human sea of society.
And we can control where our civilization is heading;
The problem to solve is getting easier as the road to hell is getting closer.
Use the internet to avoid confusion and to reveal the power of love and collaboration.
Until soon,
Aware of and caring about us All.
Don [From The Silent Generation - 1930's]
John Moonstroller 20+
Yes, I agree, togetherness should be the goal of all humanity.
Don Wesley 50+
Your statements are true and therefore beautiful to me.
All beauty is welcome.
Until soon; in heaven I hope and work for,
Don
John Moonstroller 20+
Of course this could go the other way and the ruled could use the internet to get educated and upset the plans of the ruling parties. It appears it is spreading in this direction. I'm taking courses at an online college and learning much.
We waste resources because they are unregulated. It's really that simple. When resources become rare, we regulated them and decide who gets what and how much, with the rulers getting the highest share. It has away been that way.
We must bear in mind that money takes second place to power and control. With an educated population all the rulers have to do to put them under control is to shrink the money supply, which is what we are going through now. It is a fact that it is easier to control an educated population, provided you keep the educational process in two lots. The highest quality for the rulers children and the lowest for the rest. This is how the University system works and it appears that online education is following suit.
As technology takes control of our living environment, we can expect to see the population cut up into segments of haves and have not's, educated vs non-educated. The people will follow the jobs and that is the carrot that will be used to separate everyone into controllable groups. It is happening today.
Bear in mind, just because you are highly educated does not mean you are not a slave to some rulere(s). They just keep you in a more gilded cage. Not all Geniuses are born into the families of the ruling class.
Today, the smart children are sorted out, cataloged and followed throughout their lives. Opportunity is used to draw them out from their families and put them to work.
Tao P 50+
John Dunbar 10+
I concur with Johns statement it is far easier to control an educated populace when the education is mean to serve the master. Sometimes education can fool you into believing things you already know to be false....
In the communist manifesto Marx claimed that state education was needed so as to protect the children from being molded into sycophants to the ruling class. I think this is true and what we now see with all the hype about the teachers unions is really just a ploy to get in there and teach the children "what they should be learning". This is not to say that government in and of itself cant become a ruling class it can and has. The point I am attempting to make is that "spreading worry" based in truism should be an obligation to anyone who cares about his fellow man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission
http://www.chomsky.info/books/priorities01.htm
Tao P 50+
I politely disagree that we should spread worrying truisms without, at the very least, the intention of finding solutions. I feel we should go beyond that any time we utter negative ideas and facts; we need to provide answers or the space for us to collaborate to come up with answers
John Moonstroller 20+
It's the way the world has operated for thousands of years. I don't see any change taking place now. If it were not so we should see evidence of it. Right?
If I am incorrect, we would see a strong, growing middle class and shrinking on the other two ends.
Do we see this?
Tao P 50+
I believe that also to be a pessimistic, though you surely see it as realistic. Pessimism to me is stating the problems and being unable or unwilling to work towards answers. So my saying you're being pessimistic is not saying you are wrong, but I don't think you are helping us move forward. If we hope to improve the World we need to work with eachother instead of criticizing without any constructive thought.
Don Wesley 50+
You have given us a powerful essay which reveals "truth" and reason for hope.
Don
Andrey Kurchatoff
I would like to share my experiences having studied in both sides of continent: The United States of America and Kazakhstan. I am a Kazakhstanian and graduated from a wonderful ordinary village school far away fro city and i am graduate of high school in States. I believe your point is somewhat not relevant to say that state is bad at raising our children. It is much more difficult to blame state when you have a wide range of political leaders in the World. One thing I found after studying for 10 years in my village school in Kazakhstan, I got a scholarship from and went to usa to get my education. I convinced my academic adviser to put me in to 12 grade to graduate and I did graduate with high GPA.
What I want to point here is not my success but rather what is the motivation of some students! Many of people who complain that school is bad, do not even consider what is their child's motivation is. Most of people, even my host parents did not have to talk to my host brothers. I believe it is very bad for them, when they have better conditions of classroom than some other school in India or China do. I believe that most of the people do not value what they have and that is why they spend their time for nothing, do not ask. The other thing is social websites are the worst enemies of students because children tend to what their peers do and cannot go back because now everybody knows it. I believe children need to get an experience to study in poor or highly motivated high worker students schools. Or let your children study in a ordinary highly motivated Singapore or India schools then see the results. I have a lot of American, Canadian, British friends who actually got experience of studying in Southern Asian schools and they say they were blessed to open their eyes and value what they have!!!
Do not blame others but ask from yourself do you knwo what is your children's notivation is?
Did you ask who they going to be in near future?
Don Wesley 50+
I do agree with most of what you have revealed, but do find confusion in your remark "Do not blame others..."
Tao P, is just putting forward the idea that our present system needs probing to help discover its weaknesses.
From where I sit, our present system is one that evolved from the 1970’s when our Democratic structures were changed and caused a Crisis in family structures. I live in Canada.
Until soon,
Aware of and caring about us All.
Don [From The Silent Generation - 1930's]
Don Wesley 50+
I am so pleased that you were inspired by Lemn Sissays poetic and powerful delivery on TED.
To be able to probe your idea is a precious opportunity, to shed some truth around.
I was elected as a school commissioner in the 70's, to research this question of responsibility for the education of our children. I can say that defense of “Family responsibility” lost out to “State responsibility.” Our local groups were for family and not for state; our wisdom was overruled by those at the top.
While I was focusing on probing for truth at the Montreal level, the “Democratic System” was being changed at the Provincial and Federal levels. The reorganization of our democratic system, moved power from the Family at the local school level to power at the faraway top in Quebec City. That being done also moved us into a Marxist system where Man, Woman and Child as a Family was made to “fade away.” The Family System was not outlawed; because they knew it would fade away.
By the time my children left high school, they could get college loans, if and only if they left home.
So they left home and rented apartments where they could have premarital sex and produce babies.
I am not being critical of women or men for having children, after marriage. I am declaring how mislead we were to the hidden changes to made to the Democratic System which allowed the high and mighty in government to usurp the power of local school parents. All these changes took place in a few years under Trudeau. It has created a crisis in Family.
In reviewing Lemn Sissays poetic and powerful delivery on TED, I am surprised by how many commenters misunderstood his almost allegorical story. He makes a powerful and compelling appeal to the wisdom of Family comparing it to the horror of no-family and dysfunctional family.
Feyisayo Anjorin 50+
But the home is the place where a child is introduced into the society. There, a child learns the basics of human relationships by observing the parents, who are meant to be the first examples and mentors.
So, there are things that the state can not do for your child because of its nature and constitution; and there are things a child can only get from the state. This is a case of mutual responsibility. Wisdom is profitable to lead.
Don Wesley 50+
Your view, of the "importance of family" corresponds completely with my view.
I am pleased to support your view.
Don [From The Silent Generation - 1930's]
Feyisayo Anjorin 50+
Robert Winner 50+
To see this lets look at the agencies. Fed ED: 5,000 empolyees, Budget 96.8 Billion PURPOSE: to establish policy. I do not know of a corporation in the world that has a section designated to establish policy. A policy is typically described as a principle or rule to guide decisions and achieve rational outcomes. In most cases it is a statement. So Arne Duncan has 5,000 people writing this sentence. Thats $19,200,000 per person to make this sentence the goodest it are.
I just took Arizona Educational Budget as an example. Over 6 Billion spent on education. (No breakdown or dept staff size available). STUDENTS: Estimate 1,000,000 students ... the reason it is an estimate is because we have a ebb and flow of illegal aliens that migrate from school to school and state to state that use our education, welfare, and health services while not contributing to the effort. The federal government allows this and establishes things like the Dream Act which comes from this guess at requirements budget. All while in violation of federal law. Also this is raw and no fed grants or allocations are added. This total students including Charter, college, home schooled, etc .... On the Arizona Dept of ED web the latest data is 1996. Showing Linda Keegan as State Super. Had 6 since.
If any of us wrote check, kept books and records like the state and Fed do we would be housed in prison so far back sunlight could not reach us.
Could a group of 10 families take the 8K per child and teach them better ... no doubt it would be a better use of $80,000 with money left over and great results. Charters do it cheaper and better.
Anytime you let the government and unions do it .... it becomes a money pit .. with questionable results.
This is only slide # 1 .... many more issues.
All the best. Bob.
Mitch SMith 50+
This is the outlook of a sociopath. Chidren are not "educated", they get interested and learn for themselves.
A true education consists of getting out of the kid's way and supporting the kid's progress.
The alternative is so dumb-simple that we miss it in our arrogance.
Don Wesley 50+
The purpose of the paid educator, must be to discover what the individual child needs;
and also must discover the sociopath and the psychopaths.
Don
Mitch SMith 50+
You will see in my other writings on this subject some of the things you have demonstrated to me. Namely, the decline of the value of our elders and the emergence of sociopathic attitudes.
The rise of dominance has invaded our world views to such an extent that we discard good fruit for an abhorence of blemish.
This abhorence pervades our attitude towards risk such that the middle-risk path of a healthy life has polarised to the acceptance of tiny risks and cataclysmic risks with nothing in between but the coins on the tables of the money changers.
Such that we dominate our children "for their own good" a good that is illusion - a good predominantly dictated by the violation that has its epicentre in the psychopath.
Had I not seen for my own eyes the fallacy of the world view I was raised in, I would be just as everyone else - polarised and ignorant.
It is plain to me as the nose on my face - children teach themselves - the true dynamic of education is to answer the natural questions of children to our best ability. To follow thir exploration, to clear the way for them and to stop demonising them with notions of original sin or burdening them with our own irational fears.
It's all upside-down - the children teach the parents, not the other way round.
Since I came to that realisation, my own child has taught me more than 1/4 of my lifetime spent in the sadistic purgatory of schools.
I understand the ignorance of the victimised mass, but I can no longer walk in their paths.
And if anyone cares to take the veil off their faces, they might find a better way.
If I can help in that process. I will.
Don Wesley 50+
You made the following statement, and I have a question for you that needs clarification.
“A true education consists of getting out of the kid's way and supporting the kid's progress.”
My question: Is the supporting environment provided by loving parents not part of the child's “true” education?
For me, education starts before birth, in a family home, and not in a State Home. Are you disagreeing with my position?
I respect your comments always, but some need clarification.
Don
Mitch SMith 50+
The supporting environment is essential. Particularly the loving part.
This is something only a parent can truly provide.
There are some teachers who are very supportive and loving, however, the modern school paradigm is not supportive or loving of them - and they have a difficult time.
I have framed my statements to attack the notion of education being the "filling of an empty cup" - which assumes that a child is a passive object to be "sculpted" .. well, perhaps a rock can feel no pain being turned into the statue of David with hammers and chisels, but it's violence when you do it to a kid. My loving but deluded father would say "as the twig is bent so groweth the tree" and used that as an excuse to screw-up me and my siblings .. the quote is true, but who would deliberately bend a twig? He was perverted by the old biblical disaster "spare the rod and spoil the child". As were many - many are still being poisoned by this lie.
The state just wants people in "Jarbs" - listen to Obama and Romney - Mum and Dad - all in Jarbs, peddling their lifes-time, their precious minutes at 10 cents in the dollar to strangers who care nothing for the deficit in the child's nurture.
Jarbs and Money - tokens of slavery - paid for by the poverty of our children.
Don Wesley 50+
Finding the truth with sociopaths, where lies prevail is very difficult.
It seems like your father was a psychopath and that is evil.
I personally acted as a loving Mentor to my children; all three boys, Two catholic and the other protestant. The older protestant boy was the only one to marry. So religion did have a strong influence on their individual codes of behaviour.
Chris the protestant was brought up by me [seven years] exclusively. He believed as I do, in marriage and family.
I was known as a very kind man; that is why I was elected to the school board.
So we do have a big difference in our codes of behaviour and in what we find more believable. I love you for who you are.
I still have yet to find time to learn to play the beautiful whistle [flute] you sent me as a wonderful gift.
Don
Mitch SMith 50+
As I mentioned elsewhere, my arrival at my current world view was a process of observing the fallicy that underpinned what I had been taught and what my father had been taught. The violations.
I have observed elsewhere the mechanics of how violation is passed from generation to generation through assumptions that arrose in psychopathic violations. This is thousands of years old - pre-dating the old testament of the Jews, reflected in their doctrine and compounded by the Roman nationalisation of Paul's christianity that sought to correct and heal the damage.
IF Paul was teh pharisee of pharisees, Constantine was the psychopath of psychopaths.We all work within the frameworks established by our forebares - the opposite of love is not hate - it is harm, and we are all damaged. The psychopath has no love, the sociopath has love, but it is constrained by the generational injury of violation. My father was a loving man straining through the bars of his pain for that love to find voice. As are we all.
I nominate institutionalised "education" as a vector of the ancient harm. I have observed it with my own eyes, and I invite others to embark on the journey beyond the aprobation of accepted dogma and go see for themselves.
Best regards
Mitch
(edit: the flute does not require learning - just playing .. it is a thing of breath)
Don Wesley 50+
I am intrigued by what you suggest, which remains a mystery to me.
What books should I read that would get your approbation?
You say your Dad was loving; but was he nurturing? Or was he lecturing?
All the best to you also.
Mitch SMith 50+
Our parents, siblings and friends trace out the shorline and say of the sea: "here be monsters".
But when you abandon fear or get thrown into it, you find only land underfoot - where everyone insisted otherwise. This is the true "walking on water".
Perhapse there are unknown monsters lurking in the deep, but can they be worse than the ones pointing to false shorelines to keep your back permanently against the wall?
When I was 2 years old, I remember seeng that my father could become a flat thing across which were painted slogans - dead things against which no living truth could pass. This was a sad thing for a 2-year-old .. and that's why I remember it .. the sadness for my father - I could see that his love was just as harmed as mine.
He wasn't perpetuially so, and before his death, had learned to climb down from his plackard .. mostly.
(edit: there is only one book worth reading - it si the unfolding story of your own life .. something that is best read out loud ;)
Don Wesley 50+
I see a human crying out for understanding; a human thrown into an unthinkable abusive situation and crying out to humanity “is there anyone out there who cares about those of us who are suffering in the world; your institutions put us here in this barren land.” Your Dad was helpless, but loved you.
I am being abused as an elder, here in Canada, and crying out for help. The courts of Quebec have [stolen] stripped me of my wealth and the police turn me away from filing evidence of a crime. They have locked me into a barren land prison and I have not committed a crime.
Mitch, tell me this is the puzzle you are sending me to assemble for the world to see.
God Bless you Mitch.
Mitch SMith 50+
It resides fair and square in the centre of competition.
Competition is required in the face of scarcity.
Where is this scarcity?
The dynamic that leads to the abuse you are experiencing is exactly the same dynamic that results in women being paid less, and children not at all.
It is called the "tangible benefit". It occurs in cost/benefit statements that drive the whole competitive paradigm.
The value of elders undergoes a transition from tangible to intangible - they are not reliable as tangible value units because they become frail and cannot turn up to their jarb on a tangibly reliable basis according to the defined hours of work. Similarly, women get pregnant at inconvenient times and children have not got the skills or strength required for the bottom line.
in short, these social subsets have no tangible value and are treated accordingly.
These things are obvious to all entities involved in competition - corporations, governments and legislative bodies.
You are expelled to the world of the intangible.
A place where the value is litterally incalculable.
That sounds like a nice place to be.
I am please to see you are embracing it.
Don Wesley 50+
I am now certain that I don't understand where your logic system is coming from!
Where did you learn this thinking? What institution? What text books are available?
What societies are there that I can visit.
Except for pandemic courses, I didn’t study the social sciences, nor the neural sciences.
I have read what is freely available!
The attitude that comes through to me, is that you know something that I don’t know
and that I will never know; because you are a superior being.
You, have led my intuition to make me curious about a new code of “something.”
You have told me to blow into your gift [the flute] and forget the learning!
One of my friends near to me is a genius and schizophrenic and I still understand him.
You Mitch seem to be a beautiful mystery. I understand Jesus, but not you.
When I consider value, I factor out market value and look only at what makes for lasting values for humanity; a little like Warren Buffet. I also abhor systems of powerful organizations which allow evil, to de-humanize and abuse people.
I could be very happy to study something of new and invaluable value; like a better idea than democracy. I will be 80 in a few months and still have time to learn and serve.
Is it fair for me to think that you may me somewhat selfish by not revealing.
Mitch, my special pal on TED; please reveal.
Don Wesley
Mitch SMith 50+
A tune starts in the heart of a player. others may copy, but it is their own breath that gives it life.
Tradition is a process of giving life to something worth living.
No one is precluded from this - the tune can start with you - you only need play it.
After a while, you will know where to find the notes that others play - then you can copy them if it's worth doing.
Here is a chart of where the usual notes are:
http://www.moceltic.org/docs/whistle_chart.html
But I have to say - there is no limit, and the finger combinations are not set in stone - I use few of these combinations when I play these days.
The early tunes you find for yourself will be the most haunting and heart-felt.
These simple flutes are present in every culture and are often made and played by shepherds who have no access to tuition - just time watching the sheep. Many of their tunes have entered the traditions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxm_76uR-gA
What we see as greatness in others is present in us all. The measure of greatness is to find, inside, a light to help others find the same light within them - then all are great. Oddly, the more of this light you find in yourself, the better you are at seeing it in others.
Don Wesley 50+
I also remain on topic; State education!
Like a Lonely Child Sheppard, that I grew up as, the flute will now become my new pleasure.
Hopefully my playing will attract new attention on YouTube.
My first Story on YouTube was too long and was not made available.
My story was about “Torture.”
Torture that is hidden behind walls of Court Justice in a
Democracy; Canada. YouTube did send me an email; see below.
http://innjustice.blogspot.ca/2011/11/roulette-wheel-that-has-been-fixed-so.html
This week, on Canada’s CBC, the following and shocking story of Torture has finally been Uncovered.
Videos show 'dehumanizing' treatment of teen Ashley Smith
Corrections Canada had tried to stop videos from being made public.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/10/31/ashley-smith-inquest-scope.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/11/01/ashley-smith-videos-reaction.html
Don
Mitch SMith 50+
The original purpose of the instituion becomes lost as the people within it serve their own agendas by exploiting flaws in the constitution/mission statement.
Organisations fail by design. They eventually collapse - this can be observed in corporations.
Corporations are generally allowed to die - however, government created institutions are not.
Government makes the mistake that a functional institution will remain relevant to the community forever. This is not the case. If a sub-community(insitution) is formed without a specific single goal, it will atrophy into a tribe-unit with abuse as the resulting dynamic.
Ashly Smith clearly manifests the symptoms of bipolar disorder. There are very effective drug treatments for this - if prescribed by an adequately skilled psychiatrist. Unfortunately, such skill is rare. The neuroscience fields are advancing rapidly - one would hope that such skills will become more common.
The answer to harm is healing.
The world's attention must be drawn to this truth if we are to survive the next few decades.
Don Wesley 50+
Perhaps for the first time, I see we have a meeting of the mind; and by mind I mean something that was not found in the brain, as said by Dr. Wilder Penfield, author of “Man and His Family.”
Dr. Penfield, a Brain Surgeon, accepted the role as President of “Institute of Family.” This Institute was established by His Excellency The Governor General of Canada, George P. Vanier.
In a ‘Conference on the Family’ of June 7, 1964, “where prominent sociologists, social workers, scholars and religious leaders from several denominations came together” with great concern, George P. Vanier was moved to say:
“Canada has a prodigious heritage. We can and must move forward toward our true destiny as a country ‘opposed to pure materialism.’
Let us find once more the flame that lit the way for the first missionaries and pioneers.
The amazing development of economics and material civilization has brought a crisis upon the family. It is time for men with serious responsibilities in society to take stock together of the problems facing us . . . The problem is in our hands. It is up to us to direct the course of civilization.”
“Love is the strength within the family. This strength could save the world, as well as nation.
There is authority in human nature. As the family evolves, wisdom comes in the normal course of things and security, and happiness, too perchance, that is unique.”
“Control of civilization is the ultimate purpose. Man, above all is teachable. Much of the teaching should begin at an early age when brain and character alike are easily conditioned. We must propagandise wisely for the good of human society and for the health of family life. Otherwise we shall drift aimlessly with the ebb and flow of the ‘sea of society.’ It is the ship of human destiny, no less, that must be manned and for which a wise course must be charted.” – George P. Vanier, Man and His Family.
Don [From The Silent Generation - 1930]
Mitch SMith 50+
i am more interested in root physical causes than the extrapolation of those causes into philosophy.
Philosphy is a powerful tool for awareness, byt it must find dround in reality.
I do not condone the bending of twigs in any way shape or form (propaganda).
Dr Penfield exhibits the right motives, but shows an ignorance of the root causality.
Instead of the word "propaganda" - his hypothesis would be better served by the word "nurture".
We must be careful to recognise violation in the language we use. Upon detection it falsifies everything we say - ubnless we are talking about violence.
If violence is appropriate, then I propose that it should be turned against the enemy - not his victims.
Don Wesley 50+
Dr. Penfield’s remarks in my previous reply were written in 1967. He not here to defend them.
The whole of his book is the best place to challenge it. It is very short but compiled with great scholarly care and wisdom.
As to the cause of torture to Ashly Smith, I think we need only look at Philip Zimbardo: The psychology of evil,
http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psychology_of_evil.html
I am now experiencing a similar torture, stemming from my wife’s mental disorder of self-harm. She used the Court System to evict me from my own home[A Provincial Matter]. The Court is also using delays, now, to cover the internal corruption. Just like Corrections Canada is covering up the Ashly Smith story.[A Federal affair]
I think the cause of Ashly Smith’s mental-problem-story, is a separate issue and not on topic; it is so evil and disgusting; it requires a book of probing scholars. Canada is beginning to feel ashamed of itself, while it’s “lawyers distract” us from Lucifer's evil work.
We have in Canada, a democratic system, which was changed by a devious Prime Minister, P. Trudeau and his ministers in the 1960’s from “Man and His Family” to a “Sea of society.”
Governor General Vanier saw the change vividly. From stable family life in the 50’s to crisis in the 60’s.
Mitch, please look to history for “logical explanations” and compare them to what we have from the “logical society” of today and the answer is a “no-brainer;” to use a similar expression you have used.
Mitch, I say, you seem to be, just on the border of introducing confusion!
That being said I still have an abundance of love for you. Brar, a man with a great brain helped me survive through 2009 and 2010. He is Bi-Polar and used his remarkable courage and strength to keep me alive.
Ashly Smith, Bless her, would have done the same for me. Society needs education to understand those troubled, like her and maybe all of us. How about Emotional Intelligence?
Mitch SMith 50+
It is pleasing to interact with someone not afraid to "keep me on my toes"!
Many thanks!
Logical intelligence is forever relative - and never absolute. But it is the medium by which we progress.
The family. To replace the fundamental power and value of the family os tp sit on a branch and cut it off behind you.
Any definition of a "sea of society" must build on the power of family - otherwise will fail. If this sea of society does not resemble the family it will fail.
But I must point out, that humans are far more than family - at the least we are tribal. Wolf packs are family. Lion prides are family ... most pure family groups seem to be carnivourous predators. Many mamals are community creatures .. why should we be less than cattle?
And what then of the adoptee?
Please do not confuse philosophy with logic. The words and musings of philospohy trail along like a cowered dog for scraps from teh scientist's table, and yet, the scientist takes scaps from the philospher - to chew the truth from them - a meagre meal, but at least, somewhere to start.
It must be demonstrated - repeatable and open to falsification. Or it is rubbish.
These philosophers that take up ideas that just seem good to them. By all means - try them out, but be willing to admit failure.
You know I hav extensive experience with bipolar people. THey have enormous potential - but it requires willing and loving support as well as highly skilled treatment to gain a net positive fom their swinging nightmare. It is not a task lightly taken - and one that should be abandonned quickly if the loving support is not enough.
Is it now your life's work to take a chunk out of the legal abuse dragon?
An honourable work!
Best regards
Mitch
Don Wesley 50+
I am happy we make the distinction and see the one to factor out.
The work done within The Vanier Institute of the Family is Science.
The Institute is in Ottawa, the capital of Canada.
And the truth mathematically proven, makes one choice more probable than the other.
Without Man and Woman there can be no society.
And Man is different than Woman; and it takes both to create a family.
And child including the adopted, needs both Man and Woman; to be identified in society.
At this time in history we are able to educate a reliable family; remembering that prevention is ...
Family is not an assumption; it is fact of the code of common morality established first in the family.
“This code formed the basis of laws of Sumer and the Babylonian code of Hammurabi that followed it.
It is still being re-established in family.”
All this has been debated by more capable thinkers than we; I can imagine.
To be wise we should be Skeptical and humbly accept our errors; on this we do agree.
Goodness be with you and until soon,
Don.
Mitch SMith 50+
YOu might like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf-lDPXVW9I&list=PL028DC9EAF2233E4B&index=14
I recognise that there are some more experienced thinkers than us, but I don't accept that they are better.
And I have almost nil respect for experience - I have known people who have 40 years of experience * of the same day over and over agian! * people who think I'm crazy for seeking a new day every day.
Better than us?
Not likely.
Is there room for improvement?
Definitlely - till our last breath - it should be as sweet as the first.
Can we learn from the 1-day-for-40-years guy?
Yes - he knows more about that day than anyone - but don't take his advice on any other day.
Who is most expert at living your life?
You are.
Don Wesley 50+
I am pleased to hear from you, once again. I did mention EQ, to you in our recent conversation. I am pleased to see you have followed it up.
Over the past few weeks, I read and studied a Handbook, titled ‘Biblical EQ’ written by John Edmiston. He is an Australian missionary who is the Chairman & CEO of Cybermissions – a small missionary society that uses computers and the Internet to facilitate the Great Commission. Biblical EQ, is about being able to handle and discern emotions and express them wisely. I do think it would be an excellent help towards learning the Way to Happiness.
I certainly will follow your reference to YouTube. Over the past few months, I followed several online debates between Creationist’s and the Opponents. The debates are very robust, with [too] many, being impolite. I listen with great care, to learn from the debaters. You might enjoy the following one, also on YouTube: Sir Growalott, William Lane Craig vs Andrew Pyle: "Does the Christian God Exist?" Bristol, UK; 2007: http://youtu.be/wsO0ysGyjMg.
My study of Psychology [from 30 on] surpasses my study of mathematics and physics and being just on the doorstep of 80, I am still a Creationist. Scientists and Philosophers are found on both sides of the debate. The arguments on your side, [so far] are just not convincing enough to have me change my rational view. It is my personal experience, that made the choice, so we can agree on this one issue. I always enjoy your short essays; they are not arguments however.
Until soon, Mitch, my young and very kind Australian friend. I am learning to be a whistle blower, as an old Sheppard.
Thanks for your whistle-gift to me. I find so many younger engineers yearning for happiness and loosing too much time wandering.
Aware of and caring about us All.
Don [From The Silent Generation - 1930's]
Mitch SMith 50+
This is a 2 hour debate.
I have to remind you that I spent 8 years intensively investigating faiths of all types - in person.
I developed a technique of attracting proseltysers - including a method of walking - guaranteed, you walk like that and it will attract every proselytiser for a city block ;)
Following that 8 years, I have maintained an active attention to all things faith and spiritually based.
It is a measure of respect for you and in the name of open mindedness that I will subject myself to this 2 hours yet again.
OK - listened to it, .. all I can say is: "forgive the creationists lord, for they know not what they do."
Nice workout for the amygdala ;)
Hey BTW - I have growing evidence that the Sun has the equivalent of neural network learning expressed in electro magnetic causality! This makes it a brain with many orders of magnitude greater than a human brain!
Would you like to join my Ra-Worship congregation?
Don Wesley 50+
There are certain “debaters/teachers” who do have a unique personality type which makes identifying them quite easy to learn. I would agree that they should avoided.
I see them on both sides of the debate.
In the debate which I directed you to, I would say the creationist has the personality type you are referring to.
In another debate with the two following teachers, I would say Christopher fits the type you are referring to.
Christopher Hitchens, is one who fits the identity I have in mind; and Dinesh D'Souza does not.
I see compassion in Dinesh and not in Christopher.
I see Ego in Christopher and love of truth and reason in Dinesh.
Dinesh, I believe worked for President Reagan.
I can also see a few creationists who display Ego and spoil the message.
Without revealing more, I can declare that the personality delivering the message can be the spoiler of the message.
The teacher with low EQ should not be teaching children.
The children still need need unspoiled teaching. Jesus of Nazareth was I believe an excellent teacher.
I do believe you see a type that can been seen a block away, and I hope you will reveal to us that type of personality is.
I realize the above is a little tricky to solve. but less mysterious than your reply.
I am also very interested in learning more about the remaining paragraphs in your wondrous reply; maybe better done on our private emails. I also have some knowledge about the powerful role of the “amygdala”
Until soon
Don
Mitch SMith 50+
Also, I note that Craig attempted to hyjack the questioners's amygdala as a secret attack on her. This is not the actions of someone who is confident of their arguement. I can only conclude that Craig is a pathological lier like most Creationists.
Jesus was a brilliant teacher. By all reports he only ever did-his-block one time with the money changers. In all other things he taught by doing and by answering questions.
It was clever to wrap up the message in teh resurection bottle - wasn't the first religion to do that. One can admire the intelligence in the deceit .. but you gotta open the bottle to read the mesage.
Don Wesley 50+
There is only one, in my last reply, that I believe is honest and reliable as a creationist “debater” and that is Dinesh D'Souza. Someone who can help with the problem of education from birth and onward. Stories do educate; like the Miracle of Magnets.
The second statement I make, is that the story “teller” must be a person of high EQ for it to be seen as true.
That story with the magnet of most goodness is the one I have chosen, and it has the instructions to my choice of compass.
One of the best debaters today, who I have elected to defend the story which is best for me is Dinesh D'Souza.
What is the best story for others to believe, is up to them! Let them reveal their story, and elect their debater. All stories reveal some wisdom. I await with an attitude of openness to hear your story Mitch; which I suspect will also have a huge magnet of goodness. Maybe your choice will be a Gold Medal Winner of the time. Have no fear of the
amygdala; and don’t let it be your magnet.
Until soon,
Go with love and be
Aware of and caring about us All.
Don [From The Silent Generation - 1930's]
Mitch SMith 50+
Thank you for posessing (as always) a great capacity for grace!
Here is an idea:
Somewhere within my world view there exists a touchstone. It is the jewel of great value.
I am not always able to touch it, but when i do, it tells me, without words, whether a thing in my perception is a truth or not. It does not tell me why.
I perceive that you also posess this jewel.
Our work is to share this jewel.
This is the only work, and we each given a path that is defined by it.
My touchstone tells me that Creationism is untrue. It does not tell me why, but I perceive that it is not the principle that is in error - it is the translation into false motives that betrays the Creationist.
Through these discussions and the test of my touchstone, I have now perfected a definition of morality that has been missing for quite a while. It describes how creationism is the result of some Christians abandoning god for money. I can only presume that they do not have the touchstone, or have not found their way to it.
Don Wesley 50+
I truly resonate with the goodness of your reply; it rings true and clear to me.
A great example of the power of love.
Until very soon,
Don Wesley [From The Silent Generation - 1930's]
Tao P 50+
I think you missed my point regarding french. I was told that I had a learning disability regarding languages when in fact I simply had a lazy, or perhaps ignorant, teacher. I like the idea of Summerhill school, a place where you let children choose what they wish to learn about.
John Smith 30+
Don Wesley 50+
Not doing so, is to deprive the democratic system; until it becomes worthless to the people at the bottom.
elizabeth muncey 10+
David Hamilton 50+
Tao P 50+
State education is not free. It is quite expensive considering what we get out of it, though since everyone pays for it in taxes few realize the actual cost. The average cost in N. Carolina is $9,800 per year for K-12, not far off from private schools, though that is not what I am advocating. I think it is important to come up with a new method of education, one that is more child centered, as opposed to fact centered. I think it would be ideal to have members of the community teaching children in various tasks, and making their classes, especially the sciences, applicable in 'the real world'. I think it is entirely possible to create a new system; one that requires less and is far more productive. There are millions of children in school, hand-cuffed with busywork and boredom, who would love to do something meaningful.
Brian Friesen
Homeschooling is becoming more popular in the US and Canada, and many parents are engaging in social structures of homeschoolers with co-ops and parent-led activities that eliminate the isolation once deemed so problematic. Outstanding curriculum is widely available as well as online courses for those subjects in which parents are limited in their understanding. And I have found this to be helpful in promoting a spirit of unity in our household.
John Smith 30+
Most people don't, and what if your kid wants to learn French?
"State education is not free."
It's not, but the cost usually gets distributed in such a way that rich people pay more to make up for the money poor people don't have, if all education was private parents on minimum wage couldn't send their kids to school.
John Smith 30+
Most people answer no to all of the above, and that's why we allow the state to educate our children.
Bill Grimmette
Tao P 50+
I agree that the educational system is a primer, but my view is that it is quite a poor one. I am asking how can we ensure that children know how to rig their own sails, before they are put to sea?
Don Wesley 50+
For me, Lemn's story is an argument to promote the importance of family in society today.
“Those nurtured in family compared to the lonely hopelessness and moral difficulty of those who are deprived of the support that only a family can provide.” – The Vanier Institute of the Family, Ottawa, Canada.
Never the less Lemn makes the argument that suffering individuals brings forth creativity.
I do agree that education must evolve; the following Talk is a power house:
Sir Ken Robinson: Bring on the learning revolution!
http://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robinson_bring_on_the_revolution.html
All the best to you.