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James Zediana

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Why is there such heated debate over Creationism vs. Evolution?

Recently Fox News and Gallup posted some poll results:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/07/fox-news-poll-creationism/

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/07/fox-news-poll-most-believe-prayer-heals-45-believe-in-creationism/

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/Four-Americans-Believe-Strict-Creationism.aspx

I found them interesting and wondered why they cause so much discussion. Two theories both sides unwilling to budge. So I devised an experiment and on a Christian blog I posed that evolution was true and on Ted as you may know I posed a debate on evolution and sided against it.

In both cases the arguements were fierce and hence my final question on the subject in TED. I appoligize for those who got heated and there were a few. I thank those who tried to answer.

So for this question I am wondering about why this topic is so heated? Your answers will help my report for school.

Topics: religion society
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    Oct 20 2012: You ask why it is so heated?

    Well, it's because belief is exactly the same as perception.
    It's just a sortation system that converts the data from our senses into information.
    We use this information as a basis to decide which is the most optimal way forward.
    The optimal way forward is determined by how our actions will affect our comfort.
    Our comfort is benchmarked by optimal levels of physical states .. things like blood pressure, core temperature etc.
    Anything that makes our core body deviate away from the optimal is called "discomfort".
    Anything that converges our core body with optimum is called "comfort".

    One's beliefs, no matter how delusional, make-up a world view.
    Any world view that results in perpetual comfort will remain static. If anything challenges this world view, our causal systems will predict a threat to comfort.
    Problem with humans is that our prediction systems are connected with body regulation - so we see threats to world view as physical threats. This kicks-in the fight/flight response and causes discomfort.

    So try this - threaten someone's world view at the point of a gun and they will recant - no matter how devout.
    Or - challenge the world view of someone who is already uncomfortable, and they will be inclined to open their closed mind.

    Your heat is being generated by the gas that emits from comfortable people.

    It's fun to watch the shenanigans - as you well know.

    I salute you ;)
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      Oct 20 2012: Hi Mitch.
      ""So try this - threaten someone's world view at the point of a gun and they will recant - no matter how devout.""
      Hasn't worked too well with Christians over the years. Remember the lions?

      http://www.jesus.org.uk/vault/library/foxes_book_of_martyrs.pdf

      :-)
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        Oct 20 2012: Worked well enough for the inquisition.

        Mind you - this is all heresay. The story of martyres is always written second-hand.

        I don't remember any lions outside of a zoo - do you?

        This is why i recommend trying something before you believe in it.

        (Edit: Damnit, I'm sounding a little too comfortable! :)
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          Oct 21 2012: I guess if you consider history to be heresay then you don't have a lot to go on. The inquisition was the Roman Catholic way of disposing of those who wouldn't tow the line. Chief among these were the Christians, who could have saved themselves by recanting, but didn't; just like those thrown to the lions by Rome, & millions throughout history. So I've heard say at any rate :)
          OK for you to be comfortable; you're not a Christian.

          :-)
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        Oct 21 2012: LOL!

        Who said I wasn't a Christian?
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          Oct 21 2012: There's not many around in this place; I thought I'd sussed them out. I need all the help I can get if you want to 'come out'. Be careful of the Christophobics. :)

          :-)
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        Oct 22 2012: Hi Peter,
        I placed my life into god's hand when i was 10 years old.
        Ask and you will be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.
        So I asked for wisdom.
        Part of the wisdom given me was the word of Christ.
        Another part was a vision of the creation of the universe.
        Let me tell you, time is not what we take it to be.
        Jesus came to fulfill the commandments - to move forward from the old ways that had become captured by the scribes and the pharasees - and bent to their personal agendas.
        This debate about creationism Vs. evolution is a battle between the modern day scribes(orthadox science) and pharsees(orthadox religion).
        God is not concerned with any of this.
        If you want to become closer to god, look up from confusion and conflict - move into him - he is not in a book, he is at hand.
        Ask. Then accept the answer as it unfolds.

        Mind you - I am very curious to see what insights the fosil anomalies reveal!
        This is the absolute joy of God.
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          Oct 22 2012: Hi Mitch.
          I was 35 before I heard about Christ in any meaningful way. Always knew we were living in a miracle. Studied evolution for years, but couldn't get the dots to join scientifically. When I encountered creation everything just fell into place.
          I agree on your reading of the Scribes & Pharisees, it is a bit of a sideshow. However I believe the evolution issue is important as it conflicts with the Word of God. If death is part of the natural process; ie. not the result of sin; then the death of Christ is made of no effect. It is my thing because of the route I took to Christ, but there are others out there seeking in the same way; so I plough on.
          You say He is not in a book. Don't you believe He is the author of the bible?
          The fossils thing is really interesting. Nobody will acknowledge that rapid deposition is a possibility as the main cause. They do acknowledge that is necessary in many places at various times, but refuse to acknowledge that it may have been worldwide. Yet the fossils are worldwide. It is frustrating, but I guess it can't be otherwise.
          I love to see God's handiwork in nature, so beautiful & so so complex that we are really without excuse.

          :-)
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        Oct 22 2012: Hi Peter,

        The bible was written by men.
        It is extremely difficult to work out the messages of teh prophets through that much noise and translation error.
        But it is there in a patchy kind of way. Specially when you cross reference between all the prophets in all the writings from all the religions.
        Like I said - time is not like anything people understand. The truth is that no one - not the bible, not the scientists know what is going on with historical records such as fossils.
        If the orthodoxy in science was not so politically polluted, the anomolies could be examined in the light of new hypotheses.
        Rapid deposition is not denied by science - the large fosil deposits of teh northern tundra demonstrate clear evidence of it - something big happened there, scientists know it, buit no one has offered a hypothesis that can be verified under peer review. Paul LaViolette had a go, but he's underfunded to complete his work.
        As for the very old human remains anomolies - well, these timescales put them back before the global ice-sheet which ground everything to a pulp for a few millenia.
        I am sure the explaination for this stuff will surprise everyone, and it will probably have to do with the true nature of time - independant of being disgourged whole from a cosmic turtle or being layed down in orderly evolution.
        The vision i was granted is a lot more interesting than these primative explainations. It allows my god to exceed anything that has or can be written and calls us all into him. I cannot fully write what I saw .. I've been trying to for about 40 years .. but I think quantum physics is a reasonable start .. teh dimensional density of it is impressive, and yet the creation itself was so simple that using words for it polutes its purity. Yes, it is something like a big bang, but it is not on any timeline - the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
        Death is necessary - only the unenlightened fear it. Sin is a word that arises in childhood abuse. Neural theory confirms it.
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        Oct 22 2012: I'm going to continue a bit here because you seem to be a genuine seeker.
        Part of the eternal big-bang that we call creation is encapsulated in the only true word of god written in the old testament "I am that I am".
        My vision showed that the (unsayable in words) that is imbedded in "I am that I am" is creation itself.
        In what we take for time, it is going on all the time - it did not happen at any point in the past .. time itself is part of it. This is why Jesus said "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" because it is.
        My vision also showed me more than one time - infinite dimensions radiating from (the unsayable word).
        My path has since showm me the essential role of self - that exists in every particle, molecule, rock, water, germs, worrms and men and the singing of stars. Each self a part of the (unspeakable word) which is the only self that requires no not-self for definition.
        When you do sacrifice to gods, they bless you.
        When you deny gods, they bless you.
        When you do the work of gods, they do not bless you, you enter them and become a part of them - you no longer have a self to bless. This is how they bless themselves.
        After becoming God, death loses its meaning.
        in terms of common human happiness, it is more fruitful to read Damasio than the bible. At least Damasio has a clue about what self really means in humans.
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          Oct 22 2012: Hi Mitch.
          The trouble with going outside the bible is that you are left to be your own judge & jury. How can you trust that your revelations are not just misfiring neurons? What makes you doubt that God is capable of preserving His message in a book? There are hundreds of people who have had revelations of one type or another, but if we have no way of checking them, then what ?
          Jesus often references the Old Testament, & careful reading of it reveals Christ himself all the way through it, including many prophecies which are fulfilled in the New Testament. So, for my part, I will continue to trust it.
          As for fossils etc. I agree, no-one really knows. Looks like a big flood to me; but what do I know? No doubt the heated debate will continue. Interesting to hear your viewpoint although I can't go along with it. I guess we can agree that mainstream science & mainstream religion both leave much to be desired. Keep on diggin'.

          :-)

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