- Jonathan Marschall
- Seattle, WA
- United States
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Should alcohol be banned or be more regulated?
So many deaths, car crashes, marriages have been broken up due to the consumption of alcohol.
What good does alochol do for our society. Alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana. When was the last time you ever heard of a person getting into a car accident due to marijuana or starting a fight due to marijuana.
Was the lifting of prohibition a mistake?
Andres Aullet 10+
I don't think lifting the prohibition was a mistake. Alcohol is not the only problem, but it is always easier to blame one cause as opposed to try to understand the multiple factors that contribute to a certain outcome.
What good does alcohol do for society? Well, I guess the main benefit to our society is alcohol's ability to inhibit our natural tendencies to both isolate ourselves and isolate others. Our brains lower our barriers and we become slightly more tolerant of other people. That's just a wild guess. Not to say that there are no bad sides to alcohol, but it does have some social function for some people
What good does a vehicle that can run faster than 75 mph do for society? If that is the top speed limit, why not simply tell car manufacturers that it is illegal to sell cars that can run faster than that?
And why not design a car that can detect whether you are not in control (by measuring alcohol in your breath or by checking your reflexes while maneuvering the car) Why not design a car that actually slows down automatically when you are driving too close to the next vehicle? Or maybe design a car that can detect when you are texting and driving and helps you to slow down and stop on the side of the road?
I think the solution is not just to cut alcohol consumption. If car accidents is the main concern, why not do it from this other perspective?
cheers
Morton Bast 200+
Obviously a cultural shift is even more complex than a legal one, but I think the culture is the real problem here. If people felt more comfortable being the only sober person at a party, they'd be more likely to step up as designated driver. Stepping into the alcohol aisle at a supermarket is dizzying -- it's incredible how much money and thought goes into creating 17,000 cool varieties, money and thought that should probably be going into other social activities for young people. I'm not saying that the same social pressure doesn't exist later in life, but I think it's particularly strong for those in their teens and early 20s.
We don't need to regulate alcohol more. We just need to balance it out.
Michele Hames
My question is can we learn from your European counterparts, much of European nation has low drinking age and at that they are relaxed not severly enforced like in the US. Does that right of passage turning 21 and all of a sudden they are now allowed to legally consume beverages. Think about how when you first got your lisence did you drive everywhere you can could not wait to get behind that wheel and go for a ride ?, now think what if driving as addictive and all that driving that first years, has now make to "need" that every day just to function and get through life ???
I know not exactly best example but just a concept.
Jonathan Marschall
Or our the new laws just making it legal by state level for medical use?
If the prohibition of alcohol was a good choice then why not end the prohibition of Marijuana?
Fritzie Reisner 100+
But national laws take precedence.
Theodore A. Hoppe 200+
We can't keep drugs out of our jails, let alone off the streets.
John Dunbar 10+
Obviously heroin is far more dangerous when abused, its the most addictive drug on the planet not to mention the health issues that come as a result of being an intravenous drug user. You said alcohol is only dangerous when abused, so is heroin....
My answer to your question about more restrictions on alcohol is no. That would do nothing, but cause a spike in crime. What needs to be done is a campaign to show young people the effects of alcoholism, as well as pointing out that the fairytales the media spins about the good times and drunken debauchery that occurs on MTV is lala land that has almost no connection to the potential realties of bing drinking.
Arkady Grudzinsky 50+
Drugs are legal in Netherlands, and I have not heard of Netherlands going to hell any time soon.
People should take more responsibility for their decisions. When government takes control of our choices, of course, we have someone to blame for our misery, but it also means the loss of freedom. When shall people stop forcing beliefs and opinions on each other? It does not work. People will find their way into misery anyway.
Rex Edward
http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/driving/driving.htm
From this study, the results are:
"
* Current users of marijuana prefer THC doses of about 300 ug/kg to achieve their desired "high".
* It is possible to safely study the effects of marijuana on driving on highways or city streets in the presence of other traffic.
* Marijuana smoking impairs fundamental road tracking ability with the degree if impairment increasing as a function of the consumed THC dose.
* Marijuana smoking which delivers THC up to a 300 ug/kg dose slightly impairs the ability to maintain a constant headway while following another car.
* A low THC dose (100 ug/kg) does not impair driving ability in urban traffic to the same extent as a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.04g%.
* Drivers under the influence of marijuana tend to over-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and compensate when they can; e.g. by increasing effort to accomplish the task, increasing headway or slowing down, or a combination of these.
* Drivers under the influence of alcohol tend to under-estimate the adverse effects of the drug on their driving quality and do not invest compensatory effort.
* The maximum road tracking impairment after the highest THC dose (300 ug/kg) was within a range of effects produced by many commonly used medicinal drugs and less than that associated with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.08g% in previous studies employing the same test.' ~ The study.
"The conclusion is that Alcohol affects drivers worse than Pot smoking, under the same driving circumstances. We can draw the conclusion that pot smokers are safer drivers than alcohol drinkers." ~ Rex Edward.
Rex Edward
BAC Level Metabolism Time in Hours
.10 6.66
.08 5.33
.05 3.33
.02 1.33
In the state of Georgia, USA, the legal limit of BAC for a driver is .08. This means anyone driving on the roads in Georgia with an alcohol level of .08 or higher can be charged with drunk driving. Drivers under 21 can be charged with a BAC as little as .02 or effectively one drink of alcohol. For commercial drivers, charges can be brought on with a BAC of .04. If a suspect is found to have a BAC of .15 or higher, they may encounter enhanced penalties.
Rex Edward
Marijuana (Pot), also causes similar effects on the human body. It definitely effects the way you drive and handle emergency situations. Imagine your surgeon, operating on you while high on Pot? Imagine a police officer holding a gun pointed at you while high on pot.
While both drugs inhibit your abilities, Pot is inferior in it's ability to constantly affect the body to the degree that alochol does. I have seen people high on Pot and others high on Alcohol, at the same time, react differently to the same situation. For instance: In combat when mortars start coming in, Pot smokers make it to the bunker faster than the Alcohol drinkers. Afterwards, the Pot smokers have to get high all over again, while the Alcohol drinkers are still drunk and, most of them just hit the ground instead of finding the bunker.
This action did not occur with every Pot smoker or Alcohol drinker but it did occur often enough to draw a distinction between the two states of incapacitation. On the down side, Pot increases your sense of fear, making it possible you will open up on anything that moves before establishing a real target.
The only real state of mind that allows us to act normally, is the uninhibited state. It has been proven that any amount of alcohol will effect the way you drive and state laws usually allow people to exceed the minimum amount that causes less effect. Anyone who drinks should allow themselves time for their body to metabolize the alcohol before attempting to drive.
Bharath Kumar Kunjibettu 10+
So a safer way is to regulate the consumption of alcohol .However we have a challenge here . As different people get sober at different quantity of alcohol. So one will need to study different cases and come up with an amount of alcohol which is safe for consumption.
edward long 100+
You are preaching a fallacious sermon to the choir. None of the things you say are true of alcohol. They are all true of people who chronically abuse alcohol. Much like the gun debate, alcohol does not kill people, people who abuse alcohol kill people. Do you have statistical support for the assertion that alcohol is "far more dangerous than marijuana."?
John Dunbar 10+
let me ask you this can you find 1 just 1 legitimate document that states marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol and or more detrimental to society(please nothing related to marijuana prohibition)? I sent you two legitimate links and you obviously didn't look at either one.
How about radiation is it deadly or just deadly to those exposed to high doses? Alcohol is chemically addictive if you don't think it is go to your local rehab and look at someone withdrawing from alcohol, then take a few more minutes go and find someone who is withdrawing from marijuana and then try to tell me that alcohol is less or equally as dangerous as marijuana.
I don't understand the point your trying to make I never argued for prohibition of alcohol, or marijuana for that matter. So is your argument that marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol or equally as dangerous? I don't get it?
http://www.alternet.org/story/154782/health_and_societal_costs_of_marijuana_vs._alcohol_and_tobacco%3A_prohibitionists'_concerns_answered_and_refuted
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/09/03/0269881111414751
edward long 100+
David Hamilton 50+
CNN, on the changing debate. "That is what makes a subtle, nuanced move by the American Medical Association at a board meeting on Tuesday such a remarkable twist in the dialogue. The AMA shifted a 72-year-old policy about smoked marijuana, acknowledging that there could be some medical benefits, and urging reconsideration of the drug’s Schedule I status (Schedule I is a drug of abuse with “no accepted medical use.” Heroin and ecstasy are also Schedule I)." http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/11/the-changing-debate-over-medical-marijuana/
Sanjay Gupta giving a medical marijuana doctor a fair shake. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ8U489TnjQ
NY Times and Science Daily on studies which prove that marijuana is less harmful to the lungs than tobacco.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/marijuana-smoking-does-not-harm-lungs-study-finds/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060526083353.htm
http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2012/01/11282/marijuana-shown-be-less-damaging-lungs-tobacco
Psychology today on alcohol being more dangerous than marijuana on the brain http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-brain-food/201012/alcohol-vs-marijuana-in-the-brain
US Library of Medicing on Marijuana being less dangerous while driving, than alcohol.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/
chen xin
edward long 100+
chen xin
David Hamilton 50+
edward long 100+
Thank you for the links David. My thoughts after reading, in the order you presented them:
1) Suggests alcohol is the 5th worst drug and marijuana is 11th. Relevant but not undisputed.
2) Addresses potential medical applications of marijuana. Not relevant to Mr. Marschall's assertion.
3) Strongly pro-marijuana doctor touts medical potential for marijuana. Not immediately relevant.
4 thru 6) Re: tobacco. Not immediately relevant.
7) Mostly "suggested" indications. Direct conflict with #3. Tentative and inconclusive.
8) Both alcohol and marijuana impair driving ability and are of great concern.
Thanks again for your response to my request for supporting data!
fareedun hocane
secondly religion ISLAM does not allow to use it in any condition as it is harmful for health. it damages our lungs .
Gail . 50+
Here's a good article that talks about how profitable drug laws are for political cronies.
http://www.dylanratigan.com/2012/01/16/occupy-the-dream-the-mathematics-of-racism/
Gail . 50+
This being said, I don't think that government should be establishing black markets for anything. They are dangerous.
Zdenek Smith 100+
However allowing hard drugs to be accessible openly will lead to huge problems for individuals and societies. Hard drugs can become highly addictive and damaging to the individual in a very short period of time. The society will be affected as crime and medical expensive will substantially raise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_and_soft_drugs
Gail . 50+
Holland also has amazing results, and they found that by legalizing pot possession in small amounts (for adults), hard drug use plummeted, hard drug users were forced into treatment, The streets are finally empty of addicts, which decreases crime, and STDs dramatically decreased, resulting in lower health-care costs for tax payers.
These two countries are finding the same thing that America found when it experimented with abolition.
Close down the black market, violence goes way down, drug use decreases because there is an acceptable alternative.
The black market is very profitable - not just for the black marketeers, but for those companies and government agencies that thrive because of it. It's also very dangerous.
Zdenek Smith 100+
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_2001_decriminalization_of_drug_use
e.g. Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%[14] It has been proposed that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use.[15] However, during the same period, the use of heroin and cannabis also increased in Spain and Italy, where drugs for personal use was decriminalised many years earlier than in Portugal [15][16] while the use of Cannabis and heroin decreased in the rest of Western Europe.[
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Kevin Jacobson
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Jedrek Stepien 10+
Kevin Jacobson
Rick Ryan 10+
Although that would also cause the rest of us "non-morons" to starve to death. So let's not do that.
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Jonathan Marschall
The problem is with people that consume too much, like with college students, and with underage drinking.
chen xin
i think it is a long time that we have raised the habit to dring when meeting or eating .as for me .it can make m feel good when drinking .and i think if there is not wine when eating .i feel there is something wrong .i can not eat well .
if you ask me should or not ,my reply is yes in the sense of right or wrong .while i just can't stop drinking it .i think it is part of my feeling .on this pot i dont want it be down
edward long 100+
Kevin Jacobson
edward long 100+
John Dunbar 10+
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/11/alcohol-related-deaths-_n_821900.html
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Marijuana#Effects
Rick Ryan 10+
There are also studies that indicate that limited use of alcohol is actually healthy in the prevention of heart disease and other areas of human health.
So, it boils down to which studies you want to refer to, and whether the use of the alcohol is abused or not.
The same would apply to marijuana. Some medical experts support its use for certain medical conditions. But obviously, if someone smoked a joint and got behind the wheel of a car, it could be safely argued they might be "dangerous", too.
Rick Ryan 10+
The fallacy of many non-critical thinking stances is that they use only ONE example to try to justify the claim being made. That is like a statistician using only the "data numbers" they want to use, and ignoring all the rest of them.
Alcohol use, or more correctly ABUSE, is a problem for society. But it can be a problem in many more areas than just driving and traffic deaths. And the arguement can ALSO be made that when alcohol is NOT abused, it is not a problem to society.
Edward has a valid point. If you are going to claim marijuana use is not as "traffic deadly" when driving cars, show us the facts. No one should be expected just to take your word about it.
John Dunbar 10+
Rick Ryan 10+
(Quote): "Also yes this comes from abuse of alcohol, so is heroin worse than marijuana? According to what your saying it isn't."
Brian, that is a totally illogical conclusion and illustrates several logic fallacies, one of which is False Analogy. I never implied heroin and marijuana were similar.
The most important fallacy in your arguement is your second sentence in your reply..."Theres really not much evidence either way that marijuana impairs driving." There is either evidence or there isn't evidence...how "much" is irrelevant. If there is ANY evidence produced by reasonable study that marijuana use impairs motor skill function or cognitive thinking ability/perception at the time, then it can be said it would also impair the ability of the person to operate the motor vehicle "safely". The number of tradfic deaths caused by either substance...alcohol or marijuana...is not the mitigating factor.
Society has accepted a certain LEGAL level of alcohol consumption as not being abusive, such as the blood alcohol content levels when driving a car. Over the legal limit, you are abusing it at the time under the circumstances of driving a car. That is a totally different kind of abuse than the abuse that leads to the extreme medical conditions you describe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
John Dunbar 10+
Yes society has accepted that a certain level of alcohol is not abusive... Whats the point you are trying to make? The evidence in regards to marijuana causing impairment to drivers is very thin and really cant be determined to be true or false(there is legitimate evidence both ways). My point was very simple Rick, abuse marijuana and you do not die or hallucinate upon withdrawal, you may have some very slight irritation upon withdrawal of marijuana, nothing anywhere in the same stratosphere as alcohol. To encapsulate my argument is that marijuana is at least equally or less dangerous than alcohol.
Rick Ryan 10+
Why did you introduce the subject of heroin into the topic in the first place? The topic author introduced the comparison of alcohol and marijuana in the topic question. Where in the heck did you reason that heroin is in the same category? Most medical experts would never consider comparing heroin and alcohol as "equals".
Despite your claims, I didn't either.
John Dunbar 10+
edward long 100+
By the way, the topic is asking if alcohol should be banned or more heavily controlled. You are getting pretty far from that topic when you focus on whether alcohol is dangerous or not. There are more than suffucient age prohibition laws and legal usage limit controls in place. The question being asked here is do we need even more?
Rick Ryan 10+
I see you are a psychology major. Assuming you become a practitioner of the discipline, are you telling me....
1. A patient comes to you for treatment.
2. During your analysis of the patient, you discover the patient uses alcohol in an acceptable manner within the laws established for it's use. Under those laws or other competant medical authority's standards, the patient would not be considered an alcoholic or an abuser of alcohol.
3. Would you insist to the patient that he/she WAS an alcoholic or an alcohol abuser?
4. Would you insist to the patient that the patient was using a drug...alcohol (in a responsible manner)...that was just as damaging as the "recreational use" of heroin?
I hope not.
It just appears to me that you have very strong personal views about the consumption of ANY level of alcohol. That's OK. But they aren't supported by the medical disciplines who define what alcohol deppendancy, abuse, or alcoholism is. And the laws governing the use of alcohol don't support your views either. Alcohol use is considered "OK" by the medical community up to a certain point, where it then becomes a problem for the user. And laws reflect that same philosophy, in the sense you aren't illegal drinking and driving until you reach a certain threshhold of blood alcohol content.
John Dunbar 10+
Just to make it clear I think America should end the war on drugs with exception of a few.
By the way its funny you ask as I am in training to be an alcohol and drug counselor. So no theres no way I would ever tell anybody who uses alcohol moderately to stop drinking. Also no I would never suggest that recreational heroin use(if there is such a thing, from what I understand this isn't possible)poses the same level of danger as an occasional drink.
I have no strong personal view that any consumption of alcohol is bad thats ridiculous. What I do believe is that marijuana is not as dangerous as alcohol.
Kevin Jacobson
Lawren Jones 10+
"When was the last time you ever heard of a person getting into a car accident due to marijuana..." Really, Jonathan? I'm going to believe you just didn't think that through well, because I can't believe you're that misinformed. Shame on you for such a foolish statement.
pat gilbert 50+
John Smith 30+