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Debate: The Millennial generation has no hope.

For: Stagnating economies, rising youth unemployment and an attitude of entitlement (vs. head down and get on with it) means twenty somethings' futures look bleak.

Against: The digital revolution means anyone with a good idea can make it happen. Financial success isn't everything and actually this audience can follow their interests instead of having to follow a corporate career ladder. Finally in emerging markets such as India, there is a lot more possibility.

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    Oct 12 2012: The Millennial generation will collapse with the baby boomers debt on their backs. All the while thinking "They're the adults, they know better, they took care of us, now we take care of them." Never knowing they didn't take care of you, they gave you some of the worst schooling in human history, they didn't invest in your economy, they didn't pay for their benefits, and they erased your constitution.

    The question is, after the collapse, will hope start rebuilding? Probably... Human beings are survivors, and we have insane access to information. In short... A sustainable economy, won't pay back the debts of an unsustainable one... but if we create a sustainable economy... What a great problem to have.
    • Oct 15 2012: Agreed..
      What made some people think that this generation has no hope is no excuse.
      We are part of twigs of the tree that has been growing over many many years.
      While doing our best to get some intellectual nourishment from it, we need to connect ourselves with other trees that grow upside down.
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    Oct 12 2012: Problems are not new in the world; and every generation faces its peculiar challenges.
    Those who ask the right questions will focus on the things that are helpful in the quest for solutions.
    Those who focus on the gloom and doom will sink deeper into hopelessness and despair.
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    Oct 12 2012: the future might look bleak, but all the listed problems can be solved within years. all we need is stop acting stupid and wise up. how to achieve this, i don't know.
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      Oct 12 2012: The fact that the present has no solution for future problems is the pessimist's main argument. No wonder none of them has ever been right about anything.
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    Oct 15 2012: TV can only show the amazing stuff within earshot of the producers. That limited world gets all the attention. This creates the illusion of a very limited world. Small successes cultivate greater ones. TV only shows the great ones that sell commercials.

    A very long time ago, way before TV, some very wise people wrote a book of wisdom and of life rules to live by called proverbs. They didn't get paid to do it. These books can be found in many bibles. After you read those including Sirac and Eccliasticus too (they may be spelled slightly differently). You will find what the most important thing to acquire in life is. I could tell you, but then you wouldn't take the necessary journey. Once you take that journey you will have wisdom, knowledge and __________ and hope.

    That _____________ is more valuable than diamonds or gold.
  • Oct 13 2012: No hope is good.
    Hope is a false-concept belief, just like faith or god.

    All we know, can know, is what we find out and the best way to do that is by doing.
    Nothing is gained by hoping, that is why hope is leaned on, because one doesn't know.

    Same as faith.

    Knowing is different. The main thing we can all know, is that if we take action and instruct and teach by our action and example, then those to whom the future looks bleak, can learn that what they have to do, is to take action and do. Find something that they can do and then do it and show others so they can find something to do. Then they will know what will happen and will be kept busy in the meantime.

    If we are all going to suffocate, starve, eat others, be eaten, or whatever, the only way to empower oneself is to take action to help, support, comfort and fight for what we know needs to be done. That might be the only empowerment we get.

    I think the greatest source of invention is the mind/heart of mankind. Sometimes we need a story more than food.
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      Oct 14 2012: Re: "Knowing is different. The main thing we can all know, is that if we take action and instruct and teach by our action and example, then those to whom the future looks bleak, can learn that what they have to do, is to take action and do."

      Sounds like a hopeful faith statement to me... :-)

      Re: "Sometimes we need a story more than food."

      Yep... "Man does not live on bread alone..." :-)
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        Oct 14 2012: Re;sometimes we need a story more than food .yep;man does not live on bread alone

        yes ,whlle there are too many people they just say bread is avililable .milk is aviliable .good .

        meanwhile they say no to books and they say on to issues .this is not well.right ?how can we live a life without wards and questions
      • Oct 15 2012: Okay Arkady.
        Nothing is perfect. When I first told someone that I didn't believe in hope, they replied,
        "well, I guess there's hope in that." :)

        I had to admit that in one way they were right. :) But, nothing is perfect but I never see anything gained or achieved by hoping. There must be a doing or some kind of action.

        But, that's just me. Thanks very much for your comment. Appreciate it.
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          Oct 15 2012: Now you humble yourself and confess your sins... I've seen people excommunicated from atheism for doing that. :-)

          I appreciate your reaction to my post. I have faith in laughing at myself and I encourage others to do so. I see hope when people do it :-).
    • Oct 15 2012: Good point, Hope itself accomplishes nothing. Only action achieves results.

      And yet, sometimes hope is the only motivation to take action.
      • Oct 17 2012: HI Barry.
        I like that. "Hope is a motivator".
        Still, the action has to follow, me thinks.
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      Oct 15 2012: Hope is different than faith. Faith pushes forward blindly. Hope understands its limitations and give purpose to working hard.
  • Oct 13 2012: I am a big champion of empowerment. The Millennial generation will triumph like all its previous predecessors. The greatest source of invention is need and mankind has never needed so much. I agree that most systems of governance are unsustainable and eventually this means that a global conflict of epic proportions will occur. Enjoy peace while it lasts... Perspective changes based on experience, and value correlates to the allowable term of probability. A lot of voices that state that the status quo is in absolute shambles, these are those who choose to be victims and whine. Appreciation belong to those who have a continuous vision of progression, are proactive in making a difference and taking the next step forward no matter whether it is minuscule or gargantuan. We as a specie just like every other living organism will always be, have always been on the brink of disaster, that is the price of progress. There is no point in labelling generations and pointing fingers of blame, just as all adults have once been a baby, collectively we will rise and learn to walk, run and fly without fail.
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    Oct 12 2012: I think young people have their greatest chance of leading satisfying and meaningful lives if they do not consider the decades ahead with a sense of hopelessness because the economy has been bleak. I cannot help but consider generations that weathered the Great Depression or the survivors of concentration camps whose lives may not have unfolded in a way that corresponds closely to the path they expected or the path of their childhood dreams but who did over the decades live satisfying and meaningful lives. It is fruitful and productive, I think, for the young, and for all of us, to take a longer term view, though it is human nature to focus over much on the present and recent.
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    Oct 12 2012: What is the source of the apathy?
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      Oct 12 2012: The fact that the United States doesn't have a Constitution anymore, and no other country has written a better one to replace it. So there is not a single free state on the planet, and there is no empty land left.
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        Oct 12 2012: Don't bogart that joint. In other words before you look for reality relief, look at who causes the apathy.
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          Gail .

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          Oct 13 2012: David did explain the apathy. Without a written constitution's protections, there can be no freedom. Without freedom, there is little hope.

          When our economic system makes money more valuable than people (as it does), and when our economic system (as it works in the USA) with its wealth disparity makes it nearly impossible to go from lower to middle class, where is hope?

          When the mainstream religion (in the USA) demotes women to that of something less than a man, and denies her the right to own her own body - thus forcing her to accept slavery in the name of God - and forcing her to accept responsibility for a child she cannot adequately provide for - where is hope?

          When our educational systems (that exist as a subsidy for mega corporations) do not educate, we become indoctrinated into the view that people are the servants (slaves) to money. where is hope?

          When people call their slavery "freedom", there can be no freedom, and without freedom, hope is cruel.
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        Oct 13 2012: Yes you are right apathy is better... but don't bogart that joint.

        Perception is reality. What they have you perceiving is there is no constitution. There is although the current POTUS is trying like hell to subjugate it to his executive orders. But he can only do it if we don't get up on our hind legs and fire his ass. Along with the rest who won't cut spending our money, our future remember they work for us not the other way around. Which means you have to get above the apathy.

        The disparity thing is mostly a little known fact that tax rates changed for the upper quintile which encouraged them to pay taxes as individuals instead of corporations. Also the other thing is the household income myth promoted by ignoring the fact that households are much smaller because of divorce in the last 30 years.

        Women make the same as men the reason that appear different is because women take time out of their career to have children and they have a natural disposition to work less. This is a statistical fact.

        Remember the standard of living that enjoy now is brought to you by Mr Mega. You wouldn't be complaining about Mr Mega if you lived in a hut and worried about getting enough to eat and the high mortality rate because of no Pharma or modern medicine that extends your life. But clearly they have penetrated the economy it couldn't possibly be the government and the union or the Federal department of education brought to us by Jimmy Carter which imo is a violation of the constitution.

        Yea take another hit off that joint my friend it will kill that nasty hope thing you talk about. OR you can smell the coffee quit blaming someone else and DO something about it I know it is not easy but it is a lot more fun.
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        Oct 15 2012: Empty land? What do you want with empty land. There's plenty of cheap land, some with houses and garages on it. Go visit the courthouse steps in your county and look for tax sales. The internet and a credit card and your in business. Sell something on eBay. It isn't that hard. Treat people right and you make money. As much as you want proportional to the effort you make. Then blow off eBay and get your own web page and you're off to the sky is the limit. Unless you're an alcoholic or a drug addict. In which case: get clean. You cannot buy a reputation you can only build one. Use the good stuff. Throw out the bad stuff like; invidious prejudice, self-pity, exaggerated pessimism.
  • Oct 18 2012: the system this world is running at will be crushed >>>>simply people one day will have nothing to be afraid of losing so they will revolt against any one who has billions of dollar while they don't have food at there homes......the only thing the world true leaders are afraid of is that we reach a point where almost no body has anything left to be afraid of losing it and this moment all of us are afraid of a dramatic change in the world cause we don't love gambling with our lives ....but once we don't have anything we feel that it's worth holding to we will revolt ....this world u know will never be the same in the next 20 years .....and will never get back to the norms we know after 50 don't believe so wait tell u feel hungry and only a Cuban will get u feed ....the.economic crisis this world is going through due to the high inflations rates and intrests rates will lead to ww3 and ww3 will lead to a new era where all the rules will change and they will change for the best ...
  • Oct 17 2012: @Kirsztian
    Throughout history, those who would oppose to the king and the noblemen would get killed off quickly and almost nothing would change. Today is a different time. And yes, it's true that the life of the poor has been better and better in the recent hundred years, but are we reaching the peak?

    I'm not referring to any countries. I remember reading a research some time ago which found that the number of millionaires has dropped in the last few years (or that the number of new millionaires is slowly dropping), but the net worth of them is increasing. However, I can't remember exactly where I found it...
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      Oct 17 2012: i'm talking about the history of capitalism. above all, the history of the united states in 1800's and 1900's. no peak in sight.
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      Oct 17 2012: Don't tell that to Rolls Royce as most of their sales come from China.

      The Nouveau Riche are doing just fine. The reason is that their is more opportunity than ever for upward mobility. Just look at the last 20 years. The internet barely existed 20 years ago you and I would not be talking to you or people from China, how cool is that? we all owe Al Gore for inventing the internet? Google has made us all sound very knowledgeable and we can all pontificate. Cell phones or as I like to think of them electronic leashes. Cars that are damn site better than the Trabant and last twice as long as before with way better gas mileage. China and automation has greatly reduced the cost of manufactured goods. They do things in medicine on an outpatient basis that couldn't be done at all 20 years ago.

      Nope the trend is toward greater prosperity for everyone. Remember for the millionaire to become a millionaire he had to raise the standard of living for his customers or they would not buy from him. This is always the case unless the millionaire works for the government and does not have to do anything for anyone even though he called a public servant he is anything but.
      • Oct 17 2012: Yes, the trend is toward greater prosperity for everyone, but at different rates. And that's really the thing that bugs me, but I know it can't be any different.
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          Oct 17 2012: It is what it is, and opportunity is what is
  • Oct 16 2012: Well, I can say nothing but agree with you, Krisztian. There is one thing I must add, the low wages of the unskilled will mean an even bigger gap between the rich and the poor and that could lead to a revolution...
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      Oct 17 2012: if we ignore history. but in reality, the poor lived a better life every year of piece in the last 200 years.
      • Oct 17 2012: Krisztian, where did the poor live a better life what does that mean?
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      Oct 17 2012: Stefan

      What country are referring to? I don't know about your country but make sure the media is not distorting this.

      The income gap is not growing (in the U.S.), the media would have you believe this but it just is not so. It has to do with tax laws and false reporting about house hold income.
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    Oct 16 2012: Is Hope a noun or a verb?
  • Oct 16 2012: Globally this generation is "wage slaves" and seriously depressed as media propagates their personal feelings of helplessness and worthlessness.


    The truth is that the world is a dynamic place where "profit" and "potential" profit trumps all other interests and knowing this "is power". Knowing that the ability to "passively" stop or prevent commerce is extremely powerful tool capable of changing laws, politics, socialites, and beliefs.

    An example would be: If a small group of individuals stalled traffic in 10 major city's for 45 minutes "randomly" at specific choke points as a rebellion against petroleum consumption and refusal to make significant laws and offer incentives to reduce consumption. Billions of dollars per hour of financial loss would take place simply by a few "individual" cars or vehicles in key locations slowing or blocking traffic into metropolitan areas. As the act is not criminal and a large group could continue this behavior without repeated acts by one individual while lobbying for alternate plate number fuel days....
    Actions like this would result in industry losing billions per hour in labor, sales, and from logistic issues. Repeated, random, and alternate behavior would alternately result in the issue being addressed, and the potential for change.

    Each person has the ability to change the world and make a difference simply by their actions, something some would rather you not be aware of.....and propagate the "wage slave" helpless futility of the generation.

    Our fathers and grandfathers were not given a 8 hour work day from compassion, they were not given medical, dental, and vision from kindness, they were not awarded weeks of paid vacations from realization of hardship. They obtained them by being "rebellious" and "resisting" the norms of "wage slavery". They "punched them in the "pocket book" not the armor of the day......and was hard to do!
    • Oct 16 2012: Well said sir! Love the examples.
    • Oct 16 2012: This is well said, and indeed the repercussions would be hard to ignore.
  • Oct 15 2012: The baby boomers have given the next generation one extremely powerful piece of information.

    We have discovered that our culture is not sustainable. When I was a child, no one thought such a thing.

    That alone provides hope.
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    Oct 15 2012: The economic model works. Its weakness is that it can also "be worked" There is much of that going around.

    the elder with the purse strings, will take us all down before they do what's right. Which leaves personal integrity as the only possession worth pursuing.
  • Oct 14 2012: Well, we can't know for sure, but for the sake of discussion I'd say I'm against. I think that we will somehow be able to overcome the problems we're facing now (pollution, lack of resources, overpopulation) and that there is a future to hope for. This is an interesting time to live in. We still don't have robots to do all of our jobs for us like in some of the sci-fi movies, but we have constructed robots that can do certain jobs better than us, taking our jobs and thus contributing to the unemployment crisis. Emerging technologies will probably provide new jobs for us, but we have to balance out the amount of work being done by robots and the amount of work being done by humans. In my opinion, one thing is certain, we will have to come up with a new economic system because this one is outdated. Not many people think about it, but we've been using practically the same system for around 4 000 years (Ancient Egyptian used the same system we use now). There have been political revolutions, social revolutions and more recently technological revolution. There has to be an economic revolution if we are to have a successful future and I feel that we will be successful.
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      Oct 16 2012: Hi Stefan
      Technology is creating a spectrum of work opportunities.
      You said "taking our jobs and thus contributing to the unemployment crisis." This is a common misconception. The work that is done by robots may displace some repetitive jobs like putting parts together in an assembly line or painting a car during assembly. But other people are working making robots and putting them together, perhaps with the help of more robots. Be that as it may, it is not the robots that are contributing to unemployment. The lost jobs are being done by other people who will do the work for less money. International competition is the force that is driving unemployment. In America, when Labor Unions had the upper hand, they bargained for ever increasing wages and benefits. They refused to recognize the growing international labor market and refused to compete. So their jobs were taken up by workers who would work for less, produce quality products, and accept work with no health plan, no injury insurance, very little if any retirement system, who live in worker housing with 3 to 7 other workers in their dorm room.
      The best way to grow American jobs is to encourage workers in those places to insist on more benefits, and American workers to work for less... As it stands, foreign workers who ask for any benefits or higher pay are fired and one of the 3,000 people standing in line for a job steps forward.
      As long as big business focuses only one the bottom line, and American consumers insist on cheap products of high quality, and American labor only sees other Americans as the competition, unemployment will only increase.
      Technology enables more to be done by fewer workers. But there is enough to do, that there is work for everyone if we can agree on a method of payment that is equitable.
      • Oct 16 2012: Hi Jon,
        You seem to be concentrating mainly on the issue of the unemployment crisis in the USA, but almost every country in the world has their own unemployment crisis. Yes, technology is creating a spectrum of work opportunities, but only to those with enough knowledge. You know, not everyone can work on the making of robots and their upgrading so I fear that lower classes will have problems finding work. And at one time, we will come to the point when robots will be making other robots who can do some types of work better than we can and then only a few people will be needed to overseer them. And the fact is we can't all work as scientists or caterers (not sure this is the word, but I can't find a better one).
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          Oct 16 2012: in reality, there are no strict boundaries. there is no such thing that there is a market for skilled labor, but below a certain productivity, the demand suddenly drops to zero. everyone can contribute something, and that something has a price. all that can be said is in the modern era, unskilled labor becoming less and less paid, compared to the median or the average. this process, modernization, can not possibly lead to unemployment. it only can lead to adjustment of wages according to productivity. and since productivity is not zero, wage also isn't.

          if there is unemployment, there must be some other factors that distort the labor market, and prevent it from doing what i just described. and yes, there are many such factors, namely taxes, minimum wage and red tape.
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    Oct 14 2012: With hard work, dedication and perseverance anything is possible. With the digital revolution,I see great potential in the millennial generation !
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    Oct 14 2012: Everyone, not just one particular generation, looks socially and politically sick. Cicero said: QUOTE: "To the sick, where there is life there is hope." Without energy and courage perhaps, but not without hope.
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    Gail .

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    Oct 13 2012: When we replace the corrupt and unsustainable economic model, hope will return. Until then, there seems to be only darkness Perhaps the Millennial Generation's job will be to install a better social unifier. Money is particularly badly suited for such a role when pursuit of it is the central theme around a culture's definition of success.
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      Oct 15 2012: Now now, it isn't that bleak. Although you have plenty of reasons to think so. While twiddling my thumbs waiting for Mom to give me the ranch she and Dad promised to me in exchange for me not joining the armed services, I created a product to sell on the internet. Eventually Mom totally renegged and gave the ranch to my sisters. They married up, racially speaking (in mom's eyes). I stuck to my own. 30 years of dedication and work down the tubes. But the strong compliments I got from my little product sustained me. I had to close down my shop due to a worn out body but I am not defined by money or possessions. I would like more money but thankfully I don't need it. Nobody does. All you need is integrity.
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        Gail .

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        Oct 15 2012: For you, it's not that bleak. For me, it's npt that bleak, but we look to be about the same age - if you show your own picture. But for millennials, life will be different indeed. It will be different for us as well if we don't get our national economic act together.
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          Oct 15 2012: The economic model works. Its weakness is that it can also "be worked" There is much of that going around.

          Millennials need to know the truth about money. China will make that evident to everyone in about 3 to 7 yrs. The only way to get "our national economic act together" will require those holding all the cards (1%ers), to realize the need to help entrepreneurs that have merit. This probably wont happen. And the manipulative type who figured out how to "play" the elder with the purse strings, will take us all down before they do what's right. Which leaves personal integrity as the only possession worth pursuing.
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        Gail .

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        Oct 15 2012: Integrity is key - you're absolutely right there. But we live in a culture where religions tell people what is "moral" and what is not, and too often, ethics and morality are in conflict. We need to get rid of that cruel Abrahamic God-myth so that people will again discover their own sense of ethics.

        Our culture is fear-based, so our economic and religious (and educational) systems are fundamentally flawed.
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          Oct 16 2012: With much due respect: I think the religious systems are fundamentally mis-understood. They all require discernment in all matters with a large bias towards justice. It is the WE/They interpretations that hysterical interpreters, of the religious writings, keep using to prevent reasonable interpretations "of integrity" to inure to the benefit of everyone and instead perpetuate divisiveness and misguided sense of superiority.
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        Gail .

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        Oct 16 2012: No need to get into a religious discussion here. This isn't the place for it, but I think that the reason why Christianity is in such precipitous decline is because they are increasingly understood, rather than misunderstood. Christianity has changed dramatically in the last 25 years. What some call a bias towards justice, too many are seeing a trending bias towards injustice.

        Evangelical christian polls show that of those aged 18-24, less than one percent have a biblical worldview. Of those aged 25-30, less than 30%. Of those aged 18-35, 45%. Of those over 65, 91%.

        This all started when religions began inserting themselves in government in order to erode the civil liberties of non-christians, and force non-christians to bow to the will of the Christian "God". Rush Limbaugh, The Moral Majority, The Christian Coalition, and similar self-righteous groups have been destroying what was once something that I highly respected and was a part of.

        Christians, believing that god knows what is moral and what is not, want their definition of morality legislated as law. Those who are able to connect with their conscience and discern the difference between morality and ethics are those who are more willing to treat others as they would like to be treated. If we all did this, my inalienable rights would not have been taken away from me by Christians
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          Oct 16 2012: Neat Trick! : "no need to get into a religious discussion": Then you trail on for 4 paragraphs about Christians! You rascal.

          I believe we are in general agreement : the Rush out ona Limbaugh folk seem to have dropped a handful of screws somewhere but at my church I see people with many doubts about Religion. My religion is perfectly ok with those doubts and in fact requires sincere introspection. Those that call themselves Christians come in many varieties for sure; Some are fanatical others are not self limiting in any measure. The golden Rule you refer to is called "The greatest commandment" in my religion. But I would still try to persuade you from doing an immoral act; Assuming I knew it to be immoral; just as the Golden Rule requires.

          It sounds as though you have encountered "Christians" of the fanatical sort which Christ himself turned away. Don't write them all off for a bunch of bad apples. This has to be true for all religions is what I am trying to get across. ( hah!: a cross )

          Even the Inalienable Rights you refer to are expressly set out, otherwise you wouldn't have them and might not even know they exist.
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    Oct 13 2012: All the time I heard generation has no hope.......all the time there are people (though may be very less in numbers) who are innovative enough to bring hope
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      Oct 13 2012: Salim

      Do you think there are more innovative people now than there were say, back in 95'? I mean we were both adults then and in Nz the net was just beginning to be made known amongst our populace and Microsoft was the new big international player on the windows scene, with the advent of instant knowledge acquisition the young of today have far more available to them than i did, so where is this hopelessness coming from?
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        Oct 14 2012: Hi Ken
        Understand your point and agree to great extent as well. Practically I see kids are asking more challenging questions, which most of time I found I never thought about during my childhood. That is happening because they are much more exposed to information and data than I was.

        Statistically speaking, there are more innovative people now than compared to ' any time point as per normal distribution curve around 2% people falls into innovative category. So in real term we have more innovative people than that of past.
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    Oct 13 2012: But.
    Everyone can easily change the unhappy picture into a very happy one by quitting his "invalid happiness" !
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      Oct 13 2012: recent ly you always say invalid happiness .what is it .are you advertising something .or what do you want .

      i am a little confused .i hope you can give me a explain .
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    Oct 12 2012: Please give me a hope , I am only 34 and I love life, so do not let you influenced by the pessimistic people and give me a chance by not thinking in this way about me :) . please, please, please, until you will not miss.....the kiss, ... Miss :).
  • Oct 12 2012: Same question, different generation.
  • Oct 12 2012: "The digital revolution means anyone with a good idea can make it happen."

    Anyone, but not everyone. I'm not completely pessimistic but I do think it's strange people expect me to have a better life if I my neighbor becomes an internet millionaire, he can't offer enough jobs to help everyone.
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      Oct 12 2012: Try my idea we will all have a job evan we will not call it job but helping our neighbor and if the neighbor does not do the same we can all decide to not help him and in the final will get lost or change in another place where maybe will be accepted and make the change and if not that neighbor will not have any neighbors any more and live in his own "peace of mind" without being a tief and destroy the environment in which lives. :) We are cruel in the face of the cruel one...... but with love because we give a chance to someone to live in his way and where is at home. Think about .......